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Signs of growing older

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rebrascora said:
I think the difficulty with the whole gender thing is that it is very easy to offend someone now.
The way I see it, trying to ensure we use the right pronoun for everyone all the time is going to make life grind to a halt. I am sure we all feel terrible when we get it wrong and it certainly isn't intentional, so people shouldn't be offended, but in modern society it seems people are much more easily offended than they used to be or perhaps ought to be. I personally think gender is a sliding scale from barbie type girls to tom boys and beyond and I am sure the same is true for the male gender. I never felt bad about being a tom boy but I have never actually wanted to be a boy, however I can understand that some women/girls want to go that step further and likewise for men. It's the taking offence when there is none intended which is the problem in my opinion.
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Oh yes, I completely agree. What particularly annoys me are those individuals who insist on using the politically correct (or preferred) pronouns. I mean, unless I ask them, which often in itself gives offence, how the hell am I supposed to know which form of address they prefer.

Since I address everyone, male and female alike, as "Hey guy ..." or "See you later my man", this is a particular problem for me. Most women; cis, trans, gender queer and even martians seem to take this in the spirit in which it is delivered. However, every now and again I will meet someone who decides to take umbrage.

One thing for for sure though, at my age I seriously doubt i will ever start using gender neutral pronouns, (which in itself can cause offence)
 
For me I think the problem of pronouns causes a barrier. If I have no idea how to address someone without causing offence, maybe it is just easier not to speak to them. Having to think every time I open my mouth about whether I am going to accidentally use the wrong pronoun, simply due to decades of using those pronouns, is like the word "after" suddenly being declared a really heinous swear word. You would never manage to filter it out of your everyday conversations and I could imagine I would develop a stutter trying to process my sentences before they came out of my mouth, in trying not to say it.
I would guess that the younger generations will eventually be better at getting these pronouns right than we are, just like they are mostly better with technology and eventually society will change, but it just seems impossibly difficult to be politically correct at the moment, even with the best will in the world. I really feel for people who have to deal with these situations on a regular basis, like teachers and doctors and nurses etc.

Even just saying someone's baby is pretty or handsome is dodgy ground.

The animal world are lucky that they don't have to worry about these complications, they just live with them and get on with it.
 
rebrascora said:
If I have no idea how to address someone without causing offence, maybe it is just easier not to speak to them.
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That would be shame, both for them and for you.

I have never been a great fan of the idea that there is a grammatical correct way of writing, or even that there is a correct way to spell a particular word. In particular, I have nothing but contempt for language snobs whose, (in my experience,) only claim to academic excellence was attending a grammar school. So, you may imagine how I feel about using correct pronouns.
 
IrvineHimself said:
Does it really matter?
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Well it doesn't to me, if addressing them wrongly then apologise, if it's accepted all good if not tough.

Singer Sam Smith is apparently offended by being referred to as him lad man whatever, after Brits tv presenters next day were speaking about his outfit & performance & were apologising as they kept referring to singer as him, it was awkward to watch & remember thinking worlds gone crazy.
 
Thinking about, the direction this thread has taken is probably a good indication that we are all getting on in years :D
 
IrvineHimself said:
Thinking about, the direction this thread has taken is probably a good indication that we are all getting on in years :D
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Irvine - some years ago I responded to a post by another well known member also, just like me of 'mature' years by commencing my post with the word 'Mate blah blah' or 'If you ask me, mate blah blah' or '(User Name) mate, blah blah' - and the immediate response was an absolute diatribe about me certainly being no mate of theirs and how very dare I suggest that I ever might be.

That was me told - but ooopsie, mea culpa - I still address folk as mate both on here and in person - eg we are members of a camping/caravanning club - every other member of the same club is either already a mate or if I haven't met em yet, mates in waiting. Although in the diabetes club generally we don't have to pay a pecuniary membership fee, because people on this forum try to help each other I can't envisage that we could possibly be anything else except mates. I mean if someone you don't physically know and haven't been formally introduced to tells you summat you find useful/helpful what on earth can you say - eg. Many thanks, helpful total stranger ? or eg. Ta, mate, I never thought of that !
 
trophywench said:
Irvine - some years ago I responded to a post by another well known member also, just like me of 'mature' years by commencing my post with the word 'Mate blah blah' or 'If you ask me, mate blah blah' or '(User Name) mate, blah blah' - and the immediate response was an absolute diatribe about me certainly being no mate of theirs and how very dare I suggest that I ever might be.

That was me told - but ooopsie, mea culpa - I still address folk as mate both on here and in person - eg we are members of a camping/caravanning club - every other member of the same club is either already a mate or if I haven't met em yet, mates in waiting. Although in the diabetes club generally we don't have to pay a pecuniary membership fee, because people on this forum try to help each other I can't envisage that we could possibly be anything else except mates. I mean if someone you don't physically know and haven't been formally introduced to tells you summat you find useful/helpful what on earth can you say - eg. Many thanks, helpful total stranger ? or eg. Ta, mate, I never thought of that !
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I agree, I mean personally, I wouldn't actually use the term 'mate' [ever], in normal spoken vocabulary I use a very similar 'man' or 'guy', But, the point remains that I consider my fellow members this forum to be friends, on-line friends, but friends none the less. I mean, if we are not friends, how can we share experiences and, for example, have a conversation like this?😉

With regard to the fellow member you mentioned, I have no idea who he, she or it is, and have no wish to know, but I do think they overreacted a bit. Okay, as the recent direction of this thread suggests, being addressed in the correct form is very important to some people, but a polite "please don't call me that, address me as ...." would suffice. Having said that, fair warning: If anyone suggest I use some kind aristocratic honorific to address them, they are going to be greatly disappointed.:D

For some reason, your post reminded me of a Guardian article I read yesterday
 
IrvineHimself said:
I agree, I mean personally, I wouldn't actually use the term 'mate' [ever], in normal spoken vocabulary I use a very similar 'man' or 'guy', But, the point remains that I consider my fellow members this forum to be friends, on-line friends, but friends none the less. I mean, if we are not friends, how can we share experiences and, for example, have a conversation like this?😉

With regard to the fellow member you mentioned, I have no idea who he, she or it is, and have no wish to know, but I do think they overreacted a bit. Okay, as the recent direction of this thread suggests, being addressed in the correct form is very important to some people, but a polite "please don't call me that, address me as ...." would suffice. Having said that, fair warning: If anyone suggest I use some kind aristocratic honorific to address them, they are going to be greatly disappointed.:D

For some reason, your post reminded me of a Guardian article I read yesterday
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I tend to change my terms depending on who I am speaking to.
But that came from working with a great variety of people, who all seem to have their own preferences.
 
I'm not sure why you need to know someone's pronouns to talk  to them - I haven't yet come across anyone who insists that their second-person pronoun isn't "you". It's more talking about them (especially in their presence) where it helps to know their preferred third-person pronouns. E.g. if you have spoken to one shop assistant and they don't know and direct you to the manager, and you're saying to the manager that someone told you to ask them. I tend to go for gender neutral options of referring to people if I don't know what their pronouns are (and as I have a non-binary child who does not always dress in a way that indicates that they are non-binary, I probably do that more often in situations where other people would assume based on presentation - I may delete this bit so please don't quote). I would generally use "they" rather than guess at any of the many nouveau pronouns though.

And as regards making me feel old, for me the issue with the TV is that I now need to wear my glasses otherwise it is blurry! It took getting my glasses to realise how blurry it had become and that it wasn't the TV!
 
Dave_Z1a said:
After watching a small part of the Brits, I mentioned to my daughter, now 17, that it would be fun for us to go to a concert one day. She replied, "that would be great, but aren't all the groups your interested dead now?" :rofl::rofl: Now that makes me feel old.
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But you've outlived them - now that's a triumph
 
You know your getting old when;
Your address book has mostly names that start with Dr, and
your pharmacist has become your new best friend.
 
You know you are getting older when you speed on the motorway so you can reach your destination
before you forget where you’re going.
 
A couple of days ago I had a revelation when I realised that, while the problems that come with of old age make for a very satisfying gripe, they are far preferable to the alternatives:D
 
42istheanswer said:
I would generally use "they" rather than guess at any of the many nouveau pronouns though.
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I find they/them is an easier and easier switch. And defuses the gender issue when it isn‘t relevant.

”I was talking to my GP last week, and they were saying…” is perfectly easy to say, and the gender of the GP is of no importance so not relevant

Likewise, to paraphrase @trophywench, ”I was talking to my mate Kerry, and they were saying” feels perfectly fine - and it doesn’t matter what gender Kerry identifies as.

Of course if people have a preference I will always try to remember it. And if I make a mistake (frequently) I’ll just say ‘Sorry! [pronoun]‘ and move on. No biggie. Making too signifcant an apology or any excuses “I am SO SORRY!! I am really trying. But it’s hard at my age etc etc” almost requires the person to say “Don’t worry, it’s OK, I understand” when actually, it isn’t OK, and I don’t need to make it about me 🙂

Having a non-binary child has made me absorb this.
 
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You know you're getting older when you have more patience, but actually, it's just that you don't care anymore.
 
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