To worry or not?

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Martin.A said:
I used to buy vegan sausages but I was put off when I read that they are UPFs, so these days I buy proper sausages from a local butcher. If I had to buy from a supermarket though I would always go for the Heck ones too, and have done so once or twice.
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Thanks vegan sausages ditched. Heck sausages on their way tomorrow
 
manji said:
She contracted a lot of the info I have been advised on here. Also phoned the helpline on diabetes U.K. who also contradicted the advice on here. The main one being “ don’t worry about the carbs “ also ( there maybe some truth in this ) she told me I was overthinking and not to worry.
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Worry is one aspect of the carb problem. A diabetes diagnosis is worrying and can feel overwhelming for many. The whole 2 hour blood testing thing together with the news that, for example, brown rice is probably a little better than white rice but it might be better to avoid eating rice, most of the time, likely just adds to the worry and stress that comes with the diagnosis for many people. I think a lot depends on the kind of person you are. I find a lack of control worrying, whereas I take comfort and draw hope from taking action. Another person might just be completely overwhelmed and depressed by the whole thing, and that's definitely not a good outcome. Above all we have to live our lives and not let excessive worrying about food ruin it.

Another aspect of the carb problem and a big reason why the 'official' advice is the way it is, is fat. If you reduce carbs and make no other changes to your diet you will lose weight. While you have weight to lose that's fine, but eventually you have to get energy from somewhere or you'll waste away. That means eating more protein, more fat, or both. The 'official' advice is that eating more fat is bad for your heart, depending on the type of fat. Saturated fat like that found in dairy foods and red meat is cheap, tasty and full of calories, but a cardiologist would be horrified by the idea of swapping carbs for loads of cheese, full fat yogurt, cream in your coffee and fatty cuts of red meat, and doing that every day of the week. There is no agreement on what the 'healthiest', affordable low-carb diet is. You'll find a wide range of opinions on this forum and elsewhere about the best foods to eat in place of carbs. Until such time as there are extremely thorough, long-term scientific studies on the health advantages and disadvantages of different diet styles for type 2 diabetics, then the 'official' advice will probably remain the way it is and we will be left to our own devices as to how balance our diets.

Also, yes - carbonated zero sugar drinks are fine, at least they are for me. If there are no carbohydrates on the ingredients list (glucose, sugar AKA sucrose, high-fructose corn syrup etc.) then I see no reason why not.
 
PerSpinasAdAstra said:
Worry is one aspect of the carb problem. A diabetes diagnosis is worrying and can feel overwhelming for many. The whole 2 hour blood testing thing together with the news that, for example, brown rice is probably a little better than white rice but it might be better to avoid eating rice, most of the time, likely just adds to the worry and stress that comes with the diagnosis for many people. I think a lot depends on the kind of person you are. I find a lack of control worrying, whereas I take comfort and draw hope from taking action. Another person might just be completely overwhelmed and depressed by the whole thing, and that's definitely not a good outcome. Above all we have to live our lives and not let excessive worrying about food ruin it.

Another aspect of the carb problem and a big reason why the 'official' advice is the way it is, is fat. If you reduce carbs and make no other changes to your diet you will lose weight. While you have weight to lose that's fine, but eventually you have to get energy from somewhere or you'll waste away. That means eating more protein, more fat, or both. The 'official' advice is that eating more fat is bad for your heart, depending on the type of fat. Saturated fat like that found in dairy foods and red meat is cheap, tasty and full of calories, but a cardiologist would be horrified by the idea of swapping carbs for loads of cheese, full fat yogurt, cream in your coffee and fatty cuts of red meat, and doing that every day of the week. There is no agreement on what the 'healthiest', affordable low-carb diet is. You'll find a wide range of opinions on this forum and elsewhere about the best foods to eat in place of carbs. Until such time as there are extremely thorough, long-term scientific studies on the health advantages and disadvantages of different diet styles for type 2 diabetics, then the 'official' advice will probably remain the way it is and we will be left to our own devices as to how balance our diets.

Also, yes - carbonated zero sugar drinks are fine, at least they are for me. If there are no carbohydrates on the ingredients list (glucose, sugar AKA sucrose, high-fructose corn syrup etc.) then I see no reason why not.
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A couple of years ago now, I took part in a medical research programme, looking at heart health with T2. There is also a sub-study focusing on a group in remission, looking for differences. Fascinating, and the most incredible cardio MOT. MRIs, CTs, full bloods, plus cardiac focused bloods, excercise tests, blood gas exchanges. I could go on.

I eat low carb, and my total cholesterol is always high, according to the NHS parameters, so I was expecting to have the statins discussion yet again, but they were totally at ease with my ways of living, and stated no reason to be prescribed statins “at this time”, but that could change is other markers did.

Of course, the tests I had were worth many thousands, even at the NHS tariff, and took a half day, so not entirely practical for everyone diagnosed, but interesting nonetheless. I repeat it all in another 2 years to evaluate any changes.

It takes a loooooong time to shift things like the Eatwell Guide. There are just too many parties with skin, not to mention egos, in the game. I see nothing seismic soon, although I would dearly love to be wrong.
 
Ranger said:
All good info, I think it's getting clearer.
As a general question does everyone on here with type 2 just rely on diet/exercise?. I had it in my head that a lot just took a tablet and that was it job done!
I don't know what my appointment may bring or if there is a choice to be honest.
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The tablets made me really ill and unhappy.
I was prescribed Atorvastatin and Metformin and in a few weeks I was suicidal.
For years now I have relied on diet alone to keep my blood glucose normal.
 
Drummer said:
The tablets made me really ill and unhappy.
I was prescribed Atorvastatin and Metformin and in a few weeks I was suicidal.
For years now I have relied on diet alone to keep my blood glucose normal.
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Interesting Drummer I have taken Atorvastin for years due to BP/Cholesterol so I don't have an issue with them. I am pretty happy with my results of BG so far but I'm in my 6th day only though just using diet. When I eventually to see someone which is I think a 1 day course on 15/5/24 (which seems ridiculous to me) I may learn something more. Before that on 8th April I have my foot inspection but I'm guessing that won't be the place to ask questions. Keep Smiling
 
manji said:
She contracted a lot of the info I have been advised on here. Also phoned the helpline on diabetes U.K. who also contradicted the advice on here. The main one being “ don’t worry about the carbs “ also ( there maybe some truth in this ) she told me I was overthinking and not to worry.
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Martin.A said:
Was that this site's Helpline? If so then Mike @everydayupsanddowns might want to follow this up.
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I don’t think it’s unlikely for their to be differences between some of the suggestions you might receive from the DUK Helpline and shared experiences from individual forum members.

The forum is made up of lots of different people, who offer their own lived experience. And as we know, people can have very different sensitivity to things like carbohydrates, both in terms of portion sizes, and also the way individuals find their bodies respond to various sources (and whether their metabolisms got the memo about something being ‘slow release’) :D

The Helpline advisers (and Diabetes Nurses) will be giving reliable evidence-based suggestions, that are appropriate for most people, and will help them to begin to manage their diabetes better (from a huge range of starting points), but those approaches may not work perfectly for you as an individual. And I think that’s where the shared experiences of the forum can be so helpful - to know, for example, that you aren’t alone in being slightly more sensitive to carbohydrates than average… or that the standard NHS healthy living advice needs to be slightly tweaked to work better for you.

🙂
 
I am probably a little late here on the Diet Coke/Pepsi Max/... conversation.
Although these have zero carbs, their impact on BG may still be worth checking - some people find caffeine causes their BG to rise.
I think you can now get sugar free caffeine free cola (can't remember which brand). I am not sure the point of it when you strip out all of that but I guess some of the cola yumminess remains. A bit like alcohol free low carb beer.
 
Ranger said:
No Martin I didn't unfortunately I don't understand what is good/bad, high/low carbs it is all beyond me. I literally got a phone call Friday saying you are Diabeti and when a foot check was being done..that's it! Just left hanging basically, can't believe the attitude they have towards it because it scares the life out of me.
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The same thing happened to me in January. I was sent a foot and eye appointment and left to my own devices. I got the carbs and cal app. You can scan food to measure your carbs. I am trying to stick to less than 130g of carb a day. My BG does seem to be coming down and I have a much better idea of what I can and can’t eat.
 
Sadsac said:
The same thing happened to me in January. I was sent a foot and eye appointment and left to my own devices. I got the carbs and cal app. You can scan food to measure your carbs. I am trying to stick to less than 130g of carb a day. My BG does seem to be coming down and I have a much better idea of what I can and can’t eat.
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Since my comments, I have actually been keeping a note of my carbs and since late Monday I am around 80-100g a day. I thought 130g was suggested as average but I think I would struggle to eat that much.
Not sure if that's good or bad but I seem happy enough on that at present.and bloods are pretty steady between 4 and 7 anyway.
 
Ranger said:
Since my comments, I have actually been keeping a note of my carbs and since late Monday I am around 80-100g a day. I thought 130g was suggested as average but I think I would struggle to eat that much.
Not sure if that's good or bad but I seem happy enough on that at present.and bloods are pretty steady between 4 and 7 anyway.
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130g per day is the suggested starting point bearing in mind that many people before diagnosis will be eating in excess of 250g per day so it is a substantial reduction.
It is also better to reduce carbs gradually from such a high amount as it is kinder on your eyes and nerves as quick reduction in blood glucose as a result of dietary changes or medication can give issues.
When I reduced my carbs to 70g per day I got some problems with my eyes as my close vision was all out of focus, I described it as feeling as if my eyes were in different heads. Distance was fine.
 
Leadinglights said:
130g per day is the suggested starting point bearing in mind that many people before diagnosis will be eating in excess of 250g per day so it is a substantial reduction.
It is also better to reduce carbs gradually from such a high amount as it is kinder on your eyes and nerves as quick reduction in blood glucose as a result of dietary changes or medication can give issues.
When I reduced my carbs to 70g per day I got some problems with my eyes as my close vision was all out of focus, I described it as feeling as if my eyes were in different heads. Distance was fine.
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That's great info, before I was diagnosed I sometimes had eye/sight problems for an unknown reason, seems obvious why now I guess. I'm still getting them now and again but they don't seem to be any worse to be fair. Until I can actually speak to a nurse or anyone really about an eyecheck which is my foot inspection on the 8th April I won't know much more I guess. As I mentioned, when first diagnosed and just told I was diabetic on the phone "all I was given was a foot appointment". I clinging to the hope that it will be a diabetic orientated person, my last 3 GP appointments for other things have been with Paramedic or "Surgery assistant" or something as they are called.
 
Ranger said:
That's great info, before I was diagnosed I sometimes had eye/sight problems for an unknown reason, seems obvious why now I guess. I'm still getting them now and again but they don't seem to be any worse to be fair. Until I can actually speak to a nurse or anyone really about an eyecheck which is my foot inspection on the 8th April I won't know much more I guess. As I mentioned, when first diagnosed and just told I was diabetic on the phone "all I was given was a foot appointment". I clinging to the hope that it will be a diabetic orientated person, my last 3 GP appointments for other things have been with Paramedic or "Surgery assistant" or something as they are called.
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One of the symptoms of high blood glucose is that people's vision changes and that sends them to the optician who spots what the problem is and tells them to go to the doctor. The environment is the eye becomes 'sugary' as opposed to the normal salty so the shape of the eye changes causing the out of focusness but in happens slowly so the brain compensates but if blood glucose changes rapidly the eye environment will change back to the normal salty and the eye changes shape again but is more noticeable because it happens quickly.
The optician should not give a new prescription until the eyes settle down. For some people it takes a few weeks for other like me it was several months.
 
Ranger said:
Since my comments, I have actually been keeping a note of my carbs and since late Monday I am around 80-100g a day. I thought 130g was suggested as average but I think I would struggle to eat that much.
Not sure if that's good or bad but I seem happy enough on that at present.and bloods are pretty steady between 4 and 7 anyway.
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I’m the same with 130g. I do struggle to reach that but I use it as the maximum I have in a day.
 
Leadinglights said:
One of the symptoms of high blood glucose is that people's vision changes and that sends them to the optician who spots what the problem is and tells them to go to the doctor. The environment is the eye becomes 'sugary' as opposed to the normal salty so the shape of the eye changes causing the out of focusness but in happens slowly so the brain compensates but if blood glucose changes rapidly the eye environment will change back to the normal salty and the eye changes shape again but is more noticeable because it happens quickly.
The optician should not give a new prescription until the eyes settle down. For some people it takes a few weeks for other like me it was several months.
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That dies explain my problems leading up to my diagnosis I suppose.
Sadsac said:
I’m the same with 130g. I do struggle to reach that but I use it as the maximum I have in a day.
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Yes it is confusing me as well, I feel fine but feel I'm missing out on stuff I could probably have. Not only confusing but annoying as well really, I'm worried about going out for anything to eat etc not knowing what may happen. There has to be more to this than living off your nerves, I know many who basically don't care and just crack on pretty much with everything as normal and genuinely don't seem any worse off.
 
Ranger said:
That dies explain my problems leading up to my diagnosis I suppose.

Yes it is confusing me as well, I feel fine but feel I'm missing out on stuff I could probably have. Not only confusing but annoying as well really, I'm worried about going out for anything to eat etc not knowing what may happen. There has to be more to this than living off your nerves, I know many who basically don't care and just crack on pretty much with everything as normal and genuinely don't seem any worse off.
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That is why testing with a home blood glucose monitor is a good strategy as you can reduce foods which are not too good but also find which foods you might otherwise reject would be fine.
 
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Ranger said:
That dies explain my problems leading up to my diagnosis I suppose.

Yes it is confusing me as well, I feel fine but feel I'm missing out on stuff I could probably have. Not only confusing but annoying as well really, I'm worried about going out for anything to eat etc not knowing what may happen. There has to be more to this than living off your nerves, I know many who basically don't care and just crack on pretty much with everything as normal and genuinely don't seem any worse off.
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You are not necessarily having to face a lifetime of carb restriction and worrying about what you can or can’t eat. If you can achieve real remission by substantial weight loss - and that might well require a period of carbs restriction - then if your metabolism thereby becomes normalised, thereafter the entire carbs narrative will become for you an irrelevance. You will then be able to eat what you like subject to the strict proviso that you do not regain the lost weight. If you have not yet done so then I would encourage you to read about the findings of the Direct trial. None of the participants who achieved remission and maintained it did so by adopting low carb lifestyles. It needs to be understood that those who have to keep carbs low, to keep their bg and HbA1c low, are those who for whatever reason could not normalise their situation and still have active diabetes, albeit controlled and somewhat suppressed by not throwing extra fuel on the fire.
 
childofthesea43 said:
You are not necessarily having to face a lifetime of carb restriction and worrying about what you can or can’t eat. If you can achieve real remission by substantial weight loss - and that might well require a period of carbs restriction - then if your metabolism thereby becomes normalised, thereafter the entire carbs narrative will become for you an irrelevance. You will then be able to eat what you like subject to the strict proviso that you do not regain the lost weight. If you have not yet done so then I would encourage you to read about the findings of the Direct trial. None of the participants who achieved remission and maintained it did so by adopting low carb lifestyles. It needs to be understood that those who have to keep carbs low, to keep their bg and HbA1c low, are those who for whatever reason could not normalise their situation and still have active diabetes, albeit controlled and somewhat suppressed by not throwing extra fuel on the fire.
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Looking at your signature at the bottom.
I am having a nightmare counting carbs let alone checking Cals.
 
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