Brits are dying in their tens of thousands - and we don't really have any idea why

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Amity Island said:
These are people I have physically met, not people I haven't (e.g on forums etc)
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I’m talking about people in real life too. Not sure why you assumed otherwise, but presumably people on line are people too even if I had meant that. Are you real?

I’d also add when chatting in situations like the one you describe overhearing people aren’t always honest or complete in all their reasons. Eg they may feel embarrassed admitting they feared for their health or they are following the leader in giving reasons as they want to fit into the group and go with the flow even if privately they feel otherwise. Some of us got quite a hard time for being more cautious as can be seen even in groups like this of more vulnerable people let alone the public at large.
 
HSSS said:
I’m talking about people in real life too. Not sure why you assumed otherwise, but presumably people on line are people too even if I had meant that. Are you real?

I’d also add when chatting in situations like the one you describe overhearing people aren’t always honest or complete in all their reasons. Eg they may feel embarrassed admitting they feared for their health or they are following the leader in giving reasons as they want to fit into the group and go with the flow even if privately they feel otherwise. Some of us got quite a hard time for being more cautious as can be seen even in groups like this of more vulnerable people let alone the public at large.
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I just mean, i'd rather use real experiences with people I've met rather than referring to online comments and conversation with people I've never met. It's harder to gauge peoples motives and sincerity online. I agree also, that you don't always get the full picture when people discuss things with others out in the open. But at the end of the day, you can only go by what people say. But even for people I do know, where the answers are more reliable (honest) they too all said same thing for their reasons for getting the jab. e.g to go on holiday, even the pensioners I know, said they felt obliged or peer pressured just to be able to go out etc. To me, this speaks volumes about the way we were all treated.

And of course, millions didn't cave in to the pressure or had already got covid in 2020 and didn't feel they would benefit or need the jab.
 
Amity Island said:
To me, this speaks volumes about the way we were all treated.
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To me this speaks volumes about who you mix with. As I said, not my experience. I also know very few that didn’t get vaccinated. Not just friends/family but people at work etc etc. we all live in different enviroments
 
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I was speaking with a paramedic recently and he had two ideas why the death rate is getting higher. The first was that despite warnings more people were getting obese and morbidly obese. He takes something like a lean ham sandwich or pasta salad to work, and only ever buys coffee. He cannot understand overweight/obese colleagues who snack on sausage rolls, burgers and such-like when they see the fall out daily. Seconds he believes there is an issue with Covid still causing clots in people with the death being blamed on heart attacks and strokes when Covid is the real cause. I only have to look at the changes that occured to my remaining foot , and are still ongoing, after a bout of Covid!
 
HSSS said:
To me this speaks volumes about who you mix with.
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@HSSS got to say, that comment is insulting, really derogatory. Notwithstanding that, let me clarify for everyone reading the thread, that the people I "mix" with are all educated, all have degrees (not thick), all are professionals. When I am talking about the way we were treated I am referring of course to the whole debacle, from scotch eggs to having people believe (from a positive pcr virus test) they had covid disease when they didn't (no symptoms).

HSSS said:
I also know very few that didn’t get vaccinated.
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I agree, I also know few people that didn't get vaccinated (be it through peer pressure, to go on holiday, or they believed it would stop them getting covid and passing it on etc), but that wasn't my point. I just said millions didn't get vaccinated, which is true.
 
MikeyBikey said:
Seconds he believes there is an issue with Covid still causing clots in people with the death being blamed on heart attacks and strokes when Covid is the real cause.
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Yes, that seems very likely. There were early studies showing that of the people who ended up in hospital early on in the pandemic but survived and left, a whole lot ended up dead by a year later. It's not a mild virus, and it doesn't seem to be just another respiratory virus (something that might damage your lungs but not much else).

I think early on there was a suggestion that it'll become like one of the coronaviruses that cause the common cold. Which doesn't seem a crazy idea. But it seems to have informed policy in that we're pretending it's already that (with children being encouraged to be repeatedly infected). It seems also possible that it'll stay a really nasty virus. It also seems possible that the early decades we had with the cold-producing coronaviruses were extremely nasty, with lots and lots of deaths. And we're just the lucky survivors of those events.

We don't need to risk that: we have really good vaccines (and antivirals) and we know about ventilation and air filtration. But instead we're giving up (reducing vaccination and limiting antivirals), emphasising hand washing. (Well, some of us are. The Houses of Parliament have a fancy new ventilation system and in the background of a recent picture of the PM talking with the King there was an air filter.)
 
Bruce Stephens said:
There were early studies showing that of the people who ended up in hospital early on in the pandemic but survived and left, a whole lot ended up dead by a year later. It's not a mild virus, and it doesn't seem to be just another respiratory virus (something that might damage your lungs but not much else).
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There were an awful lot of people wrongly put onto ventilators e,g those that had clear airways and could breath for themselves, who probably just needed some extra oxygen. It was decided early on based on low oxygen counts that they should put covid patients onto ventilators, later realising this was not always the correct treatment. People put onto a mechanical ventilator have a proven and substantially lower chance of surviving and going on to survive for any length of time afterwards as a result of the aggressive nature of the ventilator.
 
Bruce Stephens said:
We don't need to risk that: we have really good vaccines (and antivirals) and we know about ventilation and air filtration. But instead we're giving up (reducing vaccination and limiting antivirals), emphasising hand washing. (Well, some of us are. The Houses of Parliament have a fancy new ventilation system and in the background of a recent picture of the PM talking with the King there was an air filter.)
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Yes, the mp's wrote themselves an exemption from the jab in the houses of commons.
www.telegraph.co.uk

Covid passports not expected to apply to MPs in the Commons, Speaker announces

MPs have warned ministers that it would be “outrageous” to make Covid vaccine passports a requirement for MPs to attend the House of Commons.
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
 
Amity Island said:
Yes, the mp's wrote themselves an exemption from the jab in the houses of commons.
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That's for the tedious reason that MPs aren't employed in a usual way so it's awkward to require them to be vaccinated. (I'm not sure any of them are, in fact, not vaccinated. It's just awkward to require them to be in the way you reasonably can for ordinary employees.)
 
Bruce Stephens said:
That's for the tedious reason that MPs aren't employed in a usual way so it's awkward to require them to be vaccinated. (I'm not sure any of them are, in fact, not vaccinated. It's just awkward to require them to be in the way you reasonably can for ordinary employees.)
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Well; they were more than happy to bring in vax passports for those large gatherings like nightclubs, but not half as keen for themselves.

“It’d be outrageous if the executive were to attempt to prevent any Member of Parliament attending this House to represent our constituents without first undergoing a medical procedure.”

https://www.heraldscotland.com/poli...-mps-despite-crowded-commons/#comments-anchor
 
Amity Island said:
Well; they were more than happy to bring in vax passports for those large gatherings like nightclubs, but not half as keen for themselves.
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MPs are elected representatives. Barring them from doing that representation is a serious thing to do. Stopping people from going to nightclubs feels like much less of a problem.

(I feel the same about requiring MPs to swear allegiance to the monarch. I think it should not be required.)

(And again, I'm not aware of any MPs who chose not to be vaccinated so I suspect it may well just be a question of principle. There have been a few FOI requests asking but the answer has always been that the House of Commons doesn't know and neither does the ONS.)
 
Bruce Stephens said:
MPs are elected representatives. Barring them from doing that representation is a serious thing to do. Stopping people from going to nightclubs feels like much less of a problem.
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It was their rules. If the rules are unfair, then they are unfair for everyone. How can they justify that a strategy for covid only works/applies to others?
 
The medical regulator failed to sound the alarm over Covid vaccine side effects and should be investigated, MPs have said.

The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) is responsible for approving drugs and devices and monitors side effects caused by treatments.

But the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on pandemic response and recovery, an influential group of MPs, has raised “serious patient safety concerns”. It has claimed that “far from protecting patients” the regulator operates in a way that “puts them at serious risk”.

In a letter to Mr Brine, the APPG said that there was reason to believe that the MHRA had been aware of post-vaccination heart and clotting issues as early as February 2021, but did not highlight the problems for several months.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Medicines regulator failed to flag Covid vaccine side effects and must be investigated, say MPs

All-party group believe MHRA were aware of heart and clotting issues in February 2021 but did not highlight the problems for several months
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
 
Amity Island said:
In a letter to Mr Brine, the APPG said that there was reason to believe that the MHRA had been aware of post-vaccination heart and clotting issues as early as February 2021, but did not highlight the problems for several months.
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Doesn't feel all that convincing to me. This was early in the vaccination program so not that many people (particularly younger people who were most at risk from the clotting issues) had received the Ox/AZ vaccine (which is the one being talked about: clotting issues haven't been reported with the mRNA vaccines).

And the worry that MHRA is funded by drug companies makes about as much sense as driving tests being paid for by people taking the tests. (The worry that MHRA is trying to become more an enabler seems more of a worry, IMHO. But maybe it's fine. I think it'll probably depend on how it works out.)
 
Bruce Stephens said:
Doesn't feel all that convincing to me. This was early in the vaccination program so not that many people (particularly younger people who were most at risk from the clotting issues) had received the Ox/AZ vaccine (which is the one being talked about: clotting issues haven't been reported with the mRNA vaccines).

And the worry that MHRA is funded by drug companies makes about as much sense as driving tests being paid for by people taking the tests. (The worry that MHRA is trying to become more an enabler seems more of a worry, IMHO. But maybe it's fine. I think it'll probably depend on how it works out.)
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Yes that is the issue, they changed from regulator to enabler.
 
MPs and peers have accused the Health Secretary of withholding data that could link the Covid vaccine to excess deaths, and criticised a “wall of silence” on the topic.

A cross-party group has written to Victoria Atkins to sound alarm about the “growing public and professional concerns” at the UK’s rates of excess deaths since 2020.

Ministers have blamed the rise in excess deaths on record NHS waiting lists and the pandemic backlog.

But the parliamentarians are demanding to be shown the underlying data to support the Government’s assertion that there is “no evidence” linking excess deaths to the vaccines for Covid-19.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Health Secretary urged to release data that ‘may link Covid vaccine to excess deaths’

MPs and peers criticise ‘wall of silence’ as Government blames waiting lists and pandemic backlog for increase
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
 
This isn't all that relevant to the thread but it's also not that interesting outside of the subject.

It's much more a curiosity than of practical importance: man got 217 C19 vaccinations over 29 months, so what happened? The answer seems to be not that much (immunity was strong, but (a bit surprisingly) there didn't seem to be negative effects of this rather extreme stressing of the immune system).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1764885569627201565
 
Amity Island said:
@Bruce Stephens wasn't it "anti vaxxers" (which by the looks of things means basically anyone who doesn't want to be vaccinated) in the house of commons who didn't want themselves to have be vaccinated by writing themselves an exemption?
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I'm perhaps being too generous but I think there was just genuine awkwardness about requiring vaccination for MPs. I don't think there were many (or even any) MPs who didn't want to be vaccinated. I think it's just awkward to require it because of their status as elected representatives.

Probably they should be planning for the next pandemic by arranging that they can work remotely more effectively (which would be sensible anyway) but there's lots of resistance to that. (Perhaps the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg thinks that they work in the best of all possible Parliaments.)
 
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