A broad church - low carb is not the only way

[HenryBennett]

The truth is that there’s no “silver bullet”. We are all unique and, therefore, our bodies react differently to the same foods. The possible combinations and permutations of ingredients and foodstuffs, food groups etc, along with each of us having unique DNA means it’s impossible for there to be a single solution.

But there is a commonality in targets and approach for us diabetics. Three extremely important things that I learnt from this group are: 1) understand carbohydrates; 2) keep a food diary; and 3) measure your BG regularly with a finger prick.

Both the hospital dietician and my GP’s diabetes nurse told me to go on a low fat diet and said I shouldn’t buy a BG meter! Neither mentioned the word “carbohydrates”.

Using trial and error I’ve a reasonable idea of what’s good and what’s bad for my BG. But there’s still lots to learn and the best way to learn is from other people’s experience. Try what works for someone else. If it works for you add it to your list. If it doesn’t discard it. Listen to and tune in to your body.

If, however, an individual in here is overbearing, rude or unpleasant hit the “ignore” button and stick with the very many kind and knowledgeable people.

 

[Pobertali3]

Just a gentle reminder to members that our forum is supposed to be a friendly and supportive place, which encourages members to find their own way through the available options to find a diabetes management approach that meets their ambitions, and is appealing and sustainable for them.

While there may be some common ground between approaches, there is no one way that works for everyone, and is appropriate for every situation. Specifically carbohydrates are not inherently ‘bad’, and should not be unfairly demonised any more than any other macronutrient. Some people will have a very low tolerance for carbohydrates, and may need to be particularly careful, and that's absolutely fine if it's the apporach that works for them, but that isn't necessarily the case for everyone. Everything in moderation, except laughter as AlanS used to say.

Former admin @Northerner has previously expressed this much more eloquently, but it feels worth repeating. Be kind to each other. And share your own experiences, but be gentle and sensitive to other views and approaches. Thanks for keeping the forum a friendly and helpful place.

We have had a few occasions recently where a conflict has occurred because of inappropriate advice being given, particularly when given to new members. I just wanted to make clear that the approach to dealing with these posts is to use the Report option so that the Moderators can be alerted to them and act accordingly - we get a red flag on our screens and this can then take us directly to the post in question, plus your reasons for reporting it, so we can act on it. Confronting members giving the advice in the thread can lead to unhelpful conflict that the new member will certainly not wish to see on their thread and leave a tangle of posts for the Moderators to sort out, or if that can't be done sensibly, the thread closed - which is the last thing we want to see.​

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What do I mean about 'inappropriate advice'? This is advice that seeks to instantly pitch the new member into some drastic dietary or lifestyle changes that may simply upset or worry them more and leave them even more confused than they were before they posted. There are, of course, many strategies for managing diabetes, particularly Type 2, but our approach here should always be to reassure the new member and provide them with information and strategies that will help them understand how diabetes affects them personally and guide them to sustainable management of their condition. It's a bit of a cliché, but diabetes really is a marathon, not a sprint - there is no point in going off hell for leather for the first 'mile' and then collapsing in a heap with 25 miles left to go because no-one explained how to train yourself properly to manage the whole distance.​

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We are not against diets such as LCHF and Atkins (for example) by any means - they have proven extremely successful for a lot of people - but they are not the only solution, nor are they necessary for a lot of people. I appreciate that some people may have instantly turned to radical changes and found it worked very well for them, but until you know much more about your audience, you should not assume it will work for them - and may possibly be dangerous, since you can't possibly know what other issues a person may have.​

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The Moderators will assess and act on any reported posts, however well-meaning they are intended to be (and I know that the majority are only posted with the best of intentions).​

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This is a good community, and it is important that all members do their best to keep it friendly, informative and supportive, thank you 🙂​

I am new to the community and find this post and replies very interesting. I have often followed a low carb diet to counteract weight gain and high BS levels. I was advised to do this many years ago, before diagnosis, by a homeopath who said I was pre-diabetic. In my experience although the results of weight loss and lower BS readings is quick this is a diet I find difficult to stick to and eventually I end up reversing all the good I have done. I am a chocoholic and always admit this at reviews. Ideally I would like to have an 'everything in moderation' relationship with food but throughout my adult years I have never been able to find the balance - it is always a hunger or a burst. I am convinced that I have an eating disorder but have never pursued this further. I had no idea the low carb approach can cause eye damage! I am having problems with vision at the moment and recent retinopathy annual screening has shown some diabetic damage. I also have MS so blurred vision could also be attributed to that. I am looking forward to sharing experiences and learning from the community.

 

[Drummer]

But what if that "enthusiasm" spills into every thread.
If any new poster is told in no uncertain terms they can't eat carbs?
If they are made to feel they have failed by following the doctors advice so far, and following an NHS diet, and everything is their fault.
If they are made to feel a failure if they don't immediately rush to bring their BG down as quickly as possible, and that they have failed if there BG rises too high after a meal.
There are many ways to negatively affect new posters seeking help.

All we can do is report posts we think are negative, we shouldn't be ignoring ones that we question the effect of.

Oh they'd soon be corrected. When someone is getting things so wrong it couldn't be allowed to go uncorrected.

 

[Drummer]

I am new to the community and find this post and replies very interesting. I have often followed a low carb diet to counteract weight gain and high BS levels. I was advised to do this many years ago, before diagnosis, by a homeopath who said I was pre-diabetic. In my experience although the results of weight loss and lower BS readings is quick this is a diet I find difficult to stick to and eventually I end up reversing all the good I have done. I am a chocoholic and always admit this at reviews.

Is it the chocolate you are addicted to, or the sugar content?
I occasionally have a square of high cocoa content chocolate. If such a high percentage is too much you can use it to dip nuts, or coconut flakes, or make desserts with other low carb ingredients.

 

[Ljc]

Hi @Pobertali3 , welcome to the forum.
It’s not low carb that can cause eye problems as such, it’s more the lowering of your blood glucose too quickly when they have been high for a while . also high BGs can cause blurriness .

 

[rebrascora]

@Pobertali3
Did you increase your fat content when you went low carb? That is the key to making it sustainable long term. If you eat more fat it stops you from feeling hungry and makes low carb enjoyable. I too was a chocoholic and sugar addict pre diagnosis. Like @Drummer and many others here, I now have a little dark chocolate (85%) (half a square is usually enough) and I have it with a spoonful of crunchy peanut butter to make it more satisfying and take some of the bitterness off it.

 

[AndBreathe]

I am new to the community and find this post and replies very interesting. I have often followed a low carb diet to counteract weight gain and high BS levels. I was advised to do this many years ago, before diagnosis, by a homeopath who said I was pre-diabetic. In my experience although the results of weight loss and lower BS readings is quick this is a diet I find difficult to stick to and eventually I end up reversing all the good I have done. I am a chocoholic and always admit this at reviews. Ideally I would like to have an 'everything in moderation' relationship with food but throughout my adult years I have never been able to find the balance - it is always a hunger or a burst. I am convinced that I have an eating disorder but have never pursued this further. I had no idea the low carb approach can cause eye damage! I am having problems with vision at the moment and recent retinopathy annual screening has shown some diabetic damage. I also have MS so blurred vision could also be attributed to that. I am looking forward to sharing experiences and learning from the community.

My SiL, who is not living with diabetes in any form (to me knowledge) adopted a LC diet, when she was impressed how rock solid my weight is, over several year, whilst eating heartily. She trimmed up a bit, and her MS consultant have been astonished how well she has been. Visual loss, to the extent of blindness (thankfully temporarily to this point) in one or both eyes is a feature of her flares. Naturally, she'll do anything to help with that.

The MS improvements for her were a very happy, but totally unexpected outcome. Of course, that doesn't mean that would or could be an outcome you might enjoy, just saying.

 

[Newbie777]

Hello,

I am no expert on this and just my experience with my eyes, I suffer from Type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure.

Working away from home, I have attended a few specialists eye hospitals including, Manchester, Moorfields and Northampton, so am a bit familiar with the setup and terminology used by eye specialists.

There are a few things that can lead to blindness, these include Glaucoma, Iritis, Retina detachment, Macula Edema and I have suffered 3 of these conditions and I am only 49! (I also had a cataract removed last year)

With eye conditions in Diabetics there are many factors to look at and different stages like non- profilerative to more aggressive stages.

Usually, screening is done once a year and that is fine, but if you are unlucky then one option is retinopathy (laser), for me the laser affected my night vision.
However, there are other eye conditions/treatments and as with most things early detection is key.

Am not sure i heard about the low carb diet having an impact on your eyes though. I think I have read (and know) about constipation and some extreme examples of getting kidney stones?

My eyesight deteriorated pretty quickly, I could not attend some appointments as I was working on the other side of the Country and was invited to attend on aTuesday PM, or the hospital would forget sending out my appointments due to outsourcing the service or a change in Consultant etc. But this is completely my fault due to my bad BG/BP control!

I apologise if I sound like I am scaring you but am not, just trying to give my experience.

I have learned the hard way, but now making the required changes needed and thanks to the great people on this forum, who have given me great advice and helped me steer in the right direction, so please don't be afraid to ask.

Good luck, am sure you will fine.

 

[Kaylz]

Am not sure i heard about the low carb diet having an impact on your eyes though.

Nobody has said it does, but drastically reducing carbs at the start can lead to too fast a drop in BG and hba1c too soon which can cause eye problems, I did due to it

 

[Newbie777]

Sorry my bad,

Oh ok that makes sense.

 

[MAC2020]

So, can you find out if your comment has been reported and if you or a poster is ignored?!!

 

[Ditto]

So, can you find out if your comment has been reported and if you or a poster is ignored?!!

LOL Mac this begs the questions are you feeling paranoid or are you gonna dob somebody in?

 

[grovesy]

So, can you find out if your comment has been reported and if you or a poster is ignored?!!

If you report something mods , usally acknowledge but not always.

 

[Robin]

So, can you find out if your comment has been reported and if you or a poster is ignored?!!

I don’t think you hear if your own post has been reported by someone else, unless the Moderators edit or remove it, in which case you get a notification.
Ive often wondered about what happens when you ignore people, I have never applied the 'ignore button' even if someone is annoying me, (I'm too nosy about what they may be saying behind my back!), but maybe loads of people ignore me, I assume I wouldnt know. Sometimes if I'm reading a thread, someone makes a comment, and then the posts carry on as if they hadn’t spoken (it has happened to my posts occasionally) but it’s sometimes down to people not reading through the threads before they reply, or are typing while someone else is posting.

 

[grovesy]

I don’t think you hear if your own post has been reported by someone else, unless the Moderators edit or remove it, in which case you get a notification.
Ive often wondered about what happens when you ignore people, I have never applied the 'ignore button' even if someone is annoying me, (I'm too nosy about what they may be saying behind my back!), but maybe loads of people ignore me, I assume I wouldnt know. Sometimes if I'm reading a thread, someone makes a comment, and then the posts carry on as if they hadn’t spoken (it has happened to my posts occasionally) but it’s sometimes down to people not reading through the threads before they reply, or are typing while someone else is posting.

You don't see there post but you get a message at the bottom of a thread Show ignored content, if you click on that you can then see the content!
When reporting g mainly suspected spam, I get notification say thanks but not always.

 

[Robin]

You don't see there post but you get a message at the bottom of a thread Show ignored content, if you click on that you can then see the content!

Oh, thankyou, I was never sure how it worked.

 

[grovesy]

Oh, thankyou, I was never sure how it worked.

No problem.

 

[MAC2020]

LOL Mac this begs the questions are you feeling paranoid or are you gonna dob somebody in? View attachment 16293

Just curious... Honest Guvna!

 

[AndBreathe]

Nobody has said it does, but drastically reducing carbs at the start can lead to too fast a drop in BG and hba1c too soon which can cause eye problems, I did due to it

I think it might be fairer to say that reducing blood sugars too aggressively can bring about issues with the eyes - for some. It doesn't happen to everyone, and I doubt the lack of carbs are the culprits. In my view, it could easily happen with the ND, which we know is calorie based.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

I think it might be fairer to say that reducing blood sugars too aggressively can bring about issues with the eyes - for some. It doesn't happen to everyone, and I doubt the lack of carbs are the culprits. In my view, it could easily happen with the ND, which we know is calorie based.

I don't think it's worth fighting over anyones view that eye damage may not occur, and if it does, it wasn't the carbs that did it.
Possibly we should just advise people that reducing BG rapidly isn't the best approach.
However they choose to reduce it?

As an aside, what information do you have that a reduced calorie carb based approach, like the mostly carb based shakes, makes eye damage easily happen, as opposed to a lack of carbs, which has always been promoted to reduce BG. Is there another biological route to cause damage that you have information about, as It's not a view I've seen anywhere before?