A broad church - low carb is not the only way

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everydayupsanddowns said:
Just a gentle reminder to members that our forum is supposed to be a friendly and supportive place, which encourages members to find their own way through the available options to find a diabetes management approach that meets their ambitions, and is appealing and sustainable for them.

While there may be some common ground between approaches, there is no one way that works for everyone, and is appropriate for every situation. Specifically carbohydrates are not inherently ‘bad’, and should not be unfairly demonised any more than any other macronutrient. Some people will have a very low tolerance for carbohydrates, and may need to be particularly careful, and that's absolutely fine if it's the apporach that works for them, but that isn't necessarily the case for everyone. Everything in moderation, except laughter as AlanS used to say.

Former admin @Northerner has previously expressed this much more eloquently, but it feels worth repeating. Be kind to each other. And share your own experiences, but be gentle and sensitive to other views and approaches. Thanks for keeping the forum a friendly and helpful place.

We have had a few occasions recently where a conflict has occurred because of inappropriate advice being given, particularly when given to new members. I just wanted to make clear that the approach to dealing with these posts is to use the Report option so that the Moderators can be alerted to them and act accordingly - we get a red flag on our screens and this can then take us directly to the post in question, plus your reasons for reporting it, so we can act on it. Confronting members giving the advice in the thread can lead to unhelpful conflict that the new member will certainly not wish to see on their thread and leave a tangle of posts for the Moderators to sort out, or if that can't be done sensibly, the thread closed - which is the last thing we want to see.​
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What do I mean about 'inappropriate advice'? This is advice that seeks to instantly pitch the new member into some drastic dietary or lifestyle changes that may simply upset or worry them more and leave them even more confused than they were before they posted. There are, of course, many strategies for managing diabetes, particularly Type 2, but our approach here should always be to reassure the new member and provide them with information and strategies that will help them understand how diabetes affects them personally and guide them to sustainable management of their condition. It's a bit of a cliché, but diabetes really is a marathon, not a sprint - there is no point in going off hell for leather for the first 'mile' and then collapsing in a heap with 25 miles left to go because no-one explained how to train yourself properly to manage the whole distance.​
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We are not against diets such as LCHF and Atkins (for example) by any means - they have proven extremely successful for a lot of people - but they are not the only solution, nor are they necessary for a lot of people. I appreciate that some people may have instantly turned to radical changes and found it worked very well for them, but until you know much more about your audience, you should not assume it will work for them - and may possibly be dangerous, since you can't possibly know what other issues a person may have.​
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The Moderators will assess and act on any reported posts, however well-meaning they are intended to be (and I know that the majority are only posted with the best of intentions).​
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This is a good community, and it is important that all members do their best to keep it friendly, informative and supportive, thank you 🙂​
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so well put!
 
Becka said:
When I was first diagnosed I thought it could be helpful to find an online community, found the red site, and did not last a week because it seemed to be more like a cult, attacking people who did not accept their truth.

I found this site last year when I needed advice after being unable to get help from my G.P. and it did feel a lot different. It seemed welcoming where people offered experience and advice but did not push anything in particular. But then after a while it started to become frustrating including, though still nothing like the red site, more people presenting a "virtually eliminate carbs or nothing will help" position. Quite probably the problem was it did not suit me personally, but it seemed less inclusive and welcoming so now I just visit occasionally.
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Your last sentence strikes a chord with me and I’ve been rolling it around. I can unequivocally say that I’ve benefited greatly from being a member of this forum. The majority of people are empathetic, polite and helpful. But as with anything on the internet, especially social media, there is a minority that are overly assertive and frequently rude. I tend to drift away and then come back again. I’m much happier on here now that I’ve decided to use the “ignore” feature. It’s the same small handful of individuals who take offence at general comments, know everything and are very vocal. So now I can enjoy interacting with those who believe in live & let live.

BTW, what is the “red site” that a number of people have referred to?
 
Diabetes.co.uk - but there is a black option for those who find the red too red.
 
I see even after this thread being created it hasn't changed much and low carb is still being forced and the no you can't eat that is still going on 🙄
 
Kaylz said:
I see even after this thread being created it hasn't changed much and low carb is still being forced and the no you can't eat that is still going on 🙄
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I guess that's what the "Report" button is for but I am often reluctant to use that in case I am being overly sensitive so chose the "Ignore" button instead for members who have different views to mine wrt the danger of carbs.
 
Kaylz said:
I see even after this thread being created it hasn't changed much and low carb is still being forced and the no you can't eat that is still going on 🙄
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Kaylz I know the thread you mean and I’d encourage you to read it again. Whilst there is the one extremist cut food groups out response (I will continue to flag these for admin review) the rest of the responses were heartwarming, and I wanted to post here to say thank you. Multiple posters on that thread, including some who eat very low carb themselves, giving a friendly welcome, advising moderation and sustainable slow changes to bring high bgs down slowly. There were far more great responses than not, so to those people, thank you
 
helli said:
I guess that's what the "Report" button is for but I am often reluctant to use that in case I am being overly sensitive so chose the "Ignore" button instead for members who have different views to mine wrt the danger of carbs.
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I think it’s okay to use it for a second opinion if you have concerns over unsafe advice being given.
 
Kaylz said:
I see even after this thread being created it hasn't changed much and low carb is still being forced and the no you can't eat that is still going on 🙄
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I think going on the low carb diet does have it benefits and downsides too.

One question to ask is are you doing this short term or long term? Again there are fors and againsts.

Me personally it's short term, eventually I want to eat a bit more carbs but also continue enjoy my food which is absolutely vital for me.

Slow gradual steps will help maintain the momentum, massive instant changes are not for everyone, but I do actually agree on why they may needed like for me, so I don't lose my eyesight!

Also, I have think that if you eat what some would classify the wrong food or if you BG goes high for a day, so what!! If it has brought you some happiness( and not worry) and it's not something you will want to do everyday then that should be fine should it not?

I am now aware of carbs and have a rough idea, but am not bothered if I have 5 tomatoes in my salad as opposed to 3. It's been a massive change for me as carbs was my total comfort, but to go very low in carbs is not for me, but everyone to their own.

Let's enjoy life and share the love, we are all in this together.
 
@Lucyr I was referring to the certain individual, nobody else, I'm fed up after the same pushiness led me to develop an eating disorder so it winds me up more than it may other people, there is no need for it and nobody thinks what it may do to the person, the person that did it to me absolutely ruined my life and I would never want anyone to go through what I did because of someone's comments xx
 
Kaylz said:
I see even after this thread being created it hasn't changed much and low carb is still being forced and the no you can't eat that is still going on 🙄
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For me a broad church approach means inclusiveness, not excluding something one might personally find unpalatable - whether diet, exercise, medication, weight loss, or colour of socks.

People will talk about what worked for them, and in my world that's a lot more positive than talking a lot about what appears to have failed them.

For those interacting over the internet, they have a choice what they read, whom they agree with and how they deal with unpalatable messages. The Report button exists to allow a fresh set of eyes to read any given contribution to assess fair play and rigour.

I can't think how, interacting over the internet anyone can e forced to do anything they don't want to. All they have to do is step away from the keyboard, or seek information elsewhere.
 
AndBreathe said:
I can't think how, interacting over the internet anyone can e forced to do anything they don't want to. All they have to do is step away from the keyboard, or seek information elsewhere
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it's different to someone newly diagnosed though isn't it? Installing the fear of god in them by saying this is no good, that's no good, this may happen if you carry on eating that, oh that problem you developed is your own fault cause you ate that, I didn't WANT to develop an irrational fear of carbs but because of someone's comments on here I did, I was new, scared and they had been diagnosed years, people need to think what their comments "may" do to someone as well as saying what foods they eat "may" do to them
 
helli said:
I guess that's what the "Report" button is for but I am often reluctant to use that in case I am being overly sensitive so chose the "Ignore" button instead for members who have different views to mine wrt the danger of carbs.
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There will always be the evangelicals who will bombard any post at any opportunity,
The problem with simply ignoring them, is that eventually the do seem to be the loudest, and possibly only voice, and other methods to treat diabetes become lost in the shouting.

If you do actually read the link being claimed as a success for the low carb diet above, it's quite laughable.
It's actually a low calorie diet, and it's been suggested by many that don't low carb as a good start on here.

"My next experiment was to cut out alcohol"

" I had been taking four sugars in tea. Then there was my taste for potatoes, rice and bread. All the carby white foods had to go."

"I didn’t find myself falling into the trap of substituting more calorific fatty foods to make up for lost carb calories."

So by his own admission, he stopped drinking, stopped eating white carbs, didn't replace it with fat, and lost weight by cutting the calories, and adopting a healthy Mediterranean style diet reading the article.

I do find many so called "low carb" claims of proof simply cherry pick out of other diets successes.

Sometimes putting a counterpoint to some posts can be more useful to others than ignoring it for me.
 
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The main message that comes over to me as a relative newbie to the site is that everybody is different and no one size fits all, so what approach works for some people will not be suitable for others and will not work for them whether that be because of their own metabolism or intolerances to certain foods or ethical or religious beliefs, or other health conditions or their personal circumstances. But the main thing is that they should receive support for their chosen route by guidance about diet and foods. These are hard times for many people at the moment and a diabetes diagnosis can be the last straw. Equally people do need to take their situation seriously and try to make some changes to their life style. For many people small steps will have a positive effect and give them motivation.
 
As a newbie, I looked at the red fora and decided within an hour that the site would not work for me. It felt very different to here though not sure I could quantify how exactly.

From reading fora on here, I made a decision on what type of weight-loss diet approach might work for me and have since been reading more widely about what different diets do and how they do it. I'm happy with progress at the moment but will need to take a decision as to whether or not to change tack in the coming months if that progress completely stalls.
 
I am a relative newbie here so just to throw in my two penneth worth.......

I agree with @Kaylz (and others) because in the short time that I have been a member, it has become quite obvious already that one or two posters are very pushy with their ideas and opinions....."my way is right and you are doing it wrong" is basically what they are saying. This could be very damaging for people that are feeling vulnerable and unsure and quite frankly I think this could be quite dangerous because some people will take this literally and end up causing themselves more problems.

I have just seen a post now on another thread from one member that shocked me and I have to be honest, I am surprised that the post has not been removed.
 
Just.Brew.It said:
I am a relative newbie here so just to throw in my two penneth worth.......

I agree with @Kaylz (and others) because in the short time that I have been a member, it has become quite obvious already that one or two posters are very pushy with their ideas and opinions....."my way is right and you are doing it wrong" is basically what they are saying. This could be very damaging for people that are feeling vulnerable and unsure and quite frankly I think this could be quite dangerous because some people will take this literally and end up causing themselves more problems.

I have just seen a post now on another thread from one member that shocked me and I have to be honest, I am surprised that the post has not been removed.
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If you see a post like that, report it for review. The moderators may not have seen it themselves, so we need to help them maintain the site as it should be.
 
travellor said:
There will always be the evangelicals who will bombard any post at any opportunity,
The problem with simply ignoring them, is that eventually the do seem to be the loudest, and possibly only voice, and other methods to treat diabetes become lost in the shouting.
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My general thoughts:-

It‘s not only what people say, it’s how they say it (which is the point you’re making). I can agree to disagree with just about anyone but not when an individual is gratuitously rude because they choose to take general comments personally and shout you down. These are the people I “ignore” on this forum.

You also mention evangelicals. I have a number of very good friends who are Evangelical Christians and in order to remain friends I agree to disagree on a whole raft of things. They are very one-eyed on a number of issues, some of which I don’t even engage with them because they won’t agree to disagree and we’d probably cease being friends. In a way, therefore, I’m giving in to them and their extreme views but I value their friendship and overlook it. Engaging online is quite different though. We should be able to agree to disagree but I can’t be bothered with people who can’t be grown up. Fortunately they are in a small minority.
 
Just.Brew.It said:
I have just seen a post now on another thread from one member that shocked me and I have to be honest, I am surprised that the post has not been removed.
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Did you report it?
The moderators cannot keep up to date with every thread the moment each new message is posted, so it is important to "report" a post if you find it shocking. That flags it up to the moderators straight away to check it out. They may not find it controversial in which case you may have misunderstood the context or the original poster's intent or indeed it may even be just a typo which changed the content or the moderators may agree with you and edit or delete the post.

I think we are maybe all a little too reticent to click the "report" button, I know I have been in the past, but I don't think there is any harm done in doing so more often, even if it turns out not to be warranted. I don't think the poster is made aware that their post has been reported unless a moderator feels it has crossed the line, so there should be no problem reporting posts which concern us, even if we can't quite explain why. Your reason could be "This post shocked me" or perhaps "I felt uncomfortable reading this post". Ultimately, the moderators will of course decide if it is fit to stay on the thread, but as a member of the forum, even a newbie, you have every right to report any posts you feel shocked, offended or uneasy about.
NB. The "report" option is at the bottom left hand side of each post.... just in case you hadn't noticed it.
 
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