A broad church - low carb is not the only way

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AndBreathe said:
For those interacting over the internet, they have a choice what they read, whom they agree with and how they deal with unpalatable messages. The Report button exists to allow a fresh set of eyes to read any given contribution to assess fair play and rigour.

I can't think how, interacting over the internet anyone can e forced to do anything they don't want to. All they have to do is step away from the keyboard, or seek information elsewhere.
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Poetry exists as a form specifically because it generates an emotional response. People experience racism, homophobia, anti-semitism etc. because people cannot help having emotions. Grooming, abusive relationships, coercion are all problems for this very reason.

It is very easy to say "they are just words ignore them," but that is no different than saying the cure for depression is being told to cheer up. We are all very different, and if you are able to dismiss what people say without ever experience a negative emotional reaction then you are fortunate. But you are in a minority.

When someone is newly diagnosed and comes here for help they will be feeling vulnerable. They have just found out that have a serious condition, possibly thinking it means they have done something wrong in how they live their life, but most likely think they will need to make changes in how they behave for the rest of it.

They will also lack the knowledge and experience to know what is good or bad advice, that is why they ask questions. They will not know when to listen or when to walk away. Tell them it is their own fault and they may agree, because how else did they end up in this situation? And you seem to be knowledgable and experienced with diabetes that you are here offering advice. That is why they are here, to seek help from such people. So if they say you need to go on an extreme diet, give the impression your life is at risk if you eat the wrong thing, then why would you not believe that and act on it. Potentially to the extent of an eating disorder as Kaylz said.

Words matter, they have power, especially when people are in vulnerable and emotional states. Many of the worst figures in modern history do not gain power through might but rhetoric, exploiting normal human behaviour. "Sticks and stones" may be a useful mantra to say to yourself to help control that emotional response, but it is not descriptive. It is psychologically nonsense.

The reason why I just come and go with this forum now is that a long time ago I realized that the best thing way for me to cope with uncomfortable situations was to leave them. I am not very good at fighting and it is often not worth the effort, o why subject myself to that? Although even then I need to reach a point where I fully understand the situation to know that is what I need to do.

But that is me. And you are you. And other people and different also. You might not be able to think how other people cannot just dismiss something and walk away from the keyboard. I cannot think how people can possibly like peanut butter, watch reality TV, or speak Chinese. But I accept they do. A lot of them do. Weird.

Sorry if that is too strong, but this is something which especially annoys me. Practically dismissing other people's different experiences and treating them like they are weak or broken because they are more sensitive in their emotional responses. It is the same kind of damaging behaviour being discussed regarding pushing dangerous diets. Some people may go away thinking that if you do not respond emotionally to words that there is something wrong with them because they do. And instead of eating disorders it can lead to other psychologically dangerous behaviour.
 
I have now reported that post, thank you for the pointers on how to do that
 
Becka said:
Poetry exists as a form specifically because it generates an emotional response. People experience racism, homophobia, anti-semitism etc. because people cannot help having emotions. Grooming, abusive relationships, coercion are all problems for this very reason.

It is very easy to say "they are just words ignore them," but that is no different than saying the cure for depression is being told to cheer up. We are all very different, and if you are able to dismiss what people say without ever experience a negative emotional reaction then you are fortunate. But you are in a minority.

When someone is newly diagnosed and comes here for help they will be feeling vulnerable. They have just found out that have a serious condition, possibly thinking it means they have done something wrong in how they live their life, but most likely think they will need to make changes in how they behave for the rest of it.

They will also lack the knowledge and experience to know what is good or bad advice, that is why they ask questions. They will not know when to listen or when to walk away. Tell them it is their own fault and they may agree, because how else did they end up in this situation? And you seem to be knowledgable and experienced with diabetes that you are here offering advice. That is why they are here, to seek help from such people. So if they say you need to go on an extreme diet, give the impression your life is at risk if you eat the wrong thing, then why would you not believe that and act on it. Potentially to the extent of an eating disorder as Kaylz said.

Words matter, they have power, especially when people are in vulnerable and emotional states. Many of the worst figures in modern history do not gain power through might but rhetoric, exploiting normal human behaviour. "Sticks and stones" may be a useful mantra to say to yourself to help control that emotional response, but it is not descriptive. It is psychologically nonsense.

The reason why I just come and go with this forum now is that a long time ago I realized that the best thing way for me to cope with uncomfortable situations was to leave them. I am not very good at fighting and it is often not worth the effort, o why subject myself to that? Although even then I need to reach a point where I fully understand the situation to know that is what I need to do.

But that is me. And you are you. And other people and different also. You might not be able to think how other people cannot just dismiss something and walk away from the keyboard. I cannot think how people can possibly like peanut butter, watch reality TV, or speak Chinese. But I accept they do. A lot of them do. Weird.

Sorry if that is too strong, but this is something which especially annoys me. Practically dismissing other people's different experiences and treating them like they are weak or broken because they are more sensitive in their emotional responses. It is the same kind of damaging behaviour being discussed regarding pushing dangerous diets. Some people may go away thinking that if you do not respond emotionally to words that there is something wrong with them because they do. And instead of eating disorders it can lead to other psychologically dangerous behaviour.
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Unfortunately you can only like posts once.....I would like this one 100 times if I could
 
helli said:
My understanding of the data protection act is that unless you have given permission they cannot store personal data about you. Therefore, they should no longer be able to identify you to know that you are still banned.
When I was banned, I requested all my data was removed. I can now return if I desired.
As you say, no great loss though.
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Your understanding of GDPR is not correct.
If you request that they delete all of your records they are entitled to hold on to enough in order to uphold their ban on you.
If that wasn’t the case then nobody could ever be barred from anywhere or anything they invoked their right to deletion.
 
Leadinglights said:
The main message that comes over to me as a relative newbie to the site is that everybody is different and no one size fits all, so what approach works for some people will not be suitable for others and will not work for them whether that be because of their own metabolism or intolerances to certain foods or ethical or religious beliefs, or other health conditions or their personal circumstances. But the main thing is that they should receive support for their chosen route by guidance about diet and foods. These are hard times for many people at the moment and a diabetes diagnosis can be the last straw. Equally people do need to take their situation seriously and try to make some changes to their life style. For many people small steps will have a positive effect and give them motivation.
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Becka said:
Poetry exists as a form specifically because it generates an emotional response. People experience racism, homophobia, anti-semitism etc. because people cannot help having emotions. Grooming, abusive relationships, coercion are all problems for this very reason.

It is very easy to say "they are just words ignore them," but that is no different than saying the cure for depression is being told to cheer up. We are all very different, and if you are able to dismiss what people say without ever experience a negative emotional reaction then you are fortunate. But you are in a minority.

When someone is newly diagnosed and comes here for help they will be feeling vulnerable. They have just found out that have a serious condition, possibly thinking it means they have done something wrong in how they live their life, but most likely think they will need to make changes in how they behave for the rest of it.

They will also lack the knowledge and experience to know what is good or bad advice, that is why they ask questions. They will not know when to listen or when to walk away. Tell them it is their own fault and they may agree, because how else did they end up in this situation? And you seem to be knowledgable and experienced with diabetes that you are here offering advice. That is why they are here, to seek help from such people. So if they say you need to go on an extreme diet, give the impression your life is at risk if you eat the wrong thing, then why would you not believe that and act on it. Potentially to the extent of an eating disorder as Kaylz said.

Words matter, they have power, especially when people are in vulnerable and emotional states. Many of the worst figures in modern history do not gain power through might but rhetoric, exploiting normal human behaviour. "Sticks and stones" may be a useful mantra to say to yourself to help control that emotional response, but it is not descriptive. It is psychologically nonsense.

The reason why I just come and go with this forum now is that a long time ago I realized that the best thing way for me to cope with uncomfortable situations was to leave them. I am not very good at fighting and it is often not worth the effort, o why subject myself to that? Although even then I need to reach a point where I fully understand the situation to know that is what I need to do.

But that is me. And you are you. And other people and different also. You might not be able to think how other people cannot just dismiss something and walk away from the keyboard. I cannot think how people can possibly like peanut butter, watch reality TV, or speak Chinese. But I accept they do. A lot of them do. Weird.

Sorry if that is too strong, but this is something which especially annoys me. Practically dismissing other people's different experiences and treating them like they are weak or broken because they are more sensitive in their emotional responses. It is the same kind of damaging behaviour being discussed regarding pushing dangerous diets. Some people may go away thinking that if you do not respond emotionally to words that there is something wrong with them because they do. And instead of eating disorders it can lead to other psychologically dangerous behaviour.
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Bravo! Beautifully put
 
travellor said:
There will always be the evangelicals who will bombard any post at any opportunity,
The problem with simply ignoring them, is that eventually the do seem to be the loudest, and possibly only voice, and other methods to treat diabetes become lost in the shouting.

If you do actually read the link being claimed as a success for the low carb diet above, it's quite laughable.
It's actually a low calorie diet, and it's been suggested by many that don't low carb as a good start on here.

"My next experiment was to cut out alcohol"

" I had been taking four sugars in tea. Then there was my taste for potatoes, rice and bread. All the carby white foods had to go."

"I didn’t find myself falling into the trap of substituting more calorific fatty foods to make up for lost carb calories."

So by his own admission, he stopped drinking, stopped eating white carbs, didn't replace it with fat, and lost weight by cutting the calories, and adopting a healthy Mediterranean style diet reading the article.

I do find many so called "low carb" claims of proof simply cherry pick out of other diets successes.

Sometimes putting a counterpoint to some posts can be more useful to others than ignoring it for me.
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So he tried exercise and that didn't work, he cut alcohol and lost 6lbs then stalled. He said he couldn't go low calorie because of his relationship with food.
So why do you claim he went low calorie rather than Low Carb as he says he did?
By saying he didn't fall into the trap of increasing calories by adding fatty food to substitute for the loss of carbs I think he means that he didn't do what I did which was when going Low Carb I increased my calories from before because I ate about as many grams of fats as the grams of carbs I cut - thus an increase because fat is over twice as calorific as carbs.
But even I still lost weight !
 
ianf0ster said:
So he tried exercise and that didn't work, he cut alcohol and lost 6lbs then stalled. He said he couldn't go low calorie because of his relationship with food.
So why do you claim he went low calorie rather than Low Carb as he says he did?
By saying he didn't fall into the trap of increasing calories by adding fatty food to substitute for the loss of carbs I think he means that he didn't do what I did which was when going Low Carb I increased my calories from before because I ate about as many grams of fats as the grams of carbs I cut - thus an increase because fat is over twice as calorific as carbs.
But even I still lost weight !
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I didn't say anything.
I simply quoted that his words.
If you think he mis spoke, but you know he really meant to say something different because you agree you ate differently to him, I'm not going to argue, that's between you, him, and the Daily Mail.
Or if you agree, cutting“carby white foods” out of his diet, taking the likes of bread, rice and potatoes off his plate" without replacing any of them with fats, is the definition of a low carb diet, that's again a personal opinion. (Oh, and stopped having 4 sugars in tea)
 
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What a silly old (female) Hector I am .... aka a daft old fart ......
 
Finding it very interesting reading these posts. As in most walks of life there are many differing opinions on the same subject and people can see and take things to a larger or lesser degree. As a member who has been here for two years I have generally found that the very large majority of posters are supportive, kind and caring. There has been the occasional post that has raised my eyebrow that I have ignored and a couple that I have reported.
As a personal perspective on the subject of low-carb I did do this when first diagnosed but being a slim, picky eating diabetic I did not find it sustainable. My carb intake is probably quite a bit higher than many on here, but still considerably less than before diagnosis. My bg’s In the morning are higher than I would prefer but my HbA1c has stayed pretty much the same and my cholesterol levels are fine. Personally I take more notice of these results than those of my day to day readings. If these results start to rise I will of course rethink.
There will always be those who are very passionate about their way of dealing with their diabetes and perhaps a bit too enthusiastic in their posts, but I certainly don’t believe there is any malice involved in their opinions. As has been mentioned before it is those that are newly diagnosed that need our understanding, support and choices made available to them so that they can feel comfortable with making their choices and to adjust this as time goes by.
 
SueEK said:
Finding it very interesting reading these posts. As in most walks of life there are many differing opinions on the same subject and people can see and take things to a larger or lesser degree. As a member who has been here for two years I have generally found that the very large majority of posters are supportive, kind and caring. There has been the occasional post that has raised my eyebrow that I have ignored and a couple that I have reported.
As a personal perspective on the subject of low-carb I did do this when first diagnosed but being a slim, picky eating diabetic I did not find it sustainable. My carb intake is probably quite a bit higher than many on here, but still considerably less than before diagnosis. My bg’s In the morning are higher than I would prefer but my HbA1c has stayed pretty much the same and my cholesterol levels are fine. Personally I take more notice of these results than those of my day to day readings. If these results start to rise I will of course rethink.
There will always be those who are very passionate about their way of dealing with their diabetes and perhaps a bit too enthusiastic in their posts, but I certainly don’t believe there is any malice involved in their opinions. As has been mentioned before it is those that are newly diagnosed that need our understanding, support and choices made available to them so that they can feel comfortable with making their choices and to adjust this as time goes by.
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But what if that "enthusiasm" spills into every thread.
If any new poster is told in no uncertain terms they can't eat carbs?
If they are made to feel they have failed by following the doctors advice so far, and following an NHS diet, and everything is their fault.
If they are made to feel a failure if they don't immediately rush to bring their BG down as quickly as possible, and that they have failed if there BG rises too high after a meal.
There are many ways to negatively affect new posters seeking help.

All we can do is report posts we think are negative, we shouldn't be ignoring ones that we question the effect of.
 
I watched a Prime video program Fat Fiction recently and although American and a bit long there are some interesting concepts to explain the whole obesity, diabetes, diet debate. My other half is a complete sceptic when it comes to 'diets' as he feels a DIET is something with a beginning and by definition an end which usually results in people losing weight and almost immediately putting it back on.
The program gives some scientific basis to the concept they promote which is the low carb regime but people need to make up their own minds on this approach.
I would be interested to hear what other people think.
 
travellor said:
But what if that "enthusiasm" spills into every thread.
If any new poster is told in no uncertain terms they can't eat carbs?
If they are made to feel they have failed by following the doctors advice so far, and following an NHS diet, and everything is their fault.
If they are made to feel a failure if they don't immediately rush to bring their BG down as quickly as possible, and that they have failed if there BG rises too high after a meal.
There are many ways to negatively affect new posters seeking help.

All we can do is report posts we think are negative, we shouldn't be ignoring ones that we question the effect of.
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Personally I haven’t come across anyone that vociferous in their opinion but if that were the case I would challenge them and report them.
 
SueEK said:
Personally I haven’t come across anyone that vociferous in their opinion but if that were the case I would challenge them and report them.
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There is one example at the top of this page.
It was reported.
 
Kaylz said:
it's different to someone newly diagnosed though isn't it? Installing the fear of god in them by saying this is no good, that's no good, this may happen if you carry on eating that, oh that problem you developed is your own fault cause you ate that, I didn't WANT to develop an irrational fear of carbs but because of someone's comments on here I did, I was new, scared and they had been diagnosed years, people need to think what their comments "may" do to someone as well as saying what foods they eat "may" do to them
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My view of the internet is it is merely a microcosm of the real world. It is populated by the good, bad, ugly, those who think they know everything, those who know ver little, and those just out there to stir up trouble.

In my world, I'm afraid I don't care who anyone is. If the tell or suggest I do something, I do my own research. "Trust me I'm a Doctor/Lawyer/Plumber" (or whatever - different "experts" exist) has never, ever worked in my life, and that's an approach that has served my well.

When I was newly diagnosed and took to the internet to do my own research, like many others, I found myself going around in circles, meeting conflicting information at every turn. When my OH asked me, quite genuinely, "Who are you going to trust strangers on the internet or the professionals?" My response was I'll listen anyone making their points politely and coherently, but at the end of the day I will make my own decisions, based on many factors.

There is no perfect approach. Anyone claiming perfection or the holy grail is usually, in my view, and experience, just blowing their own ttrumpet for their own gain,... or ego.
 
Leadinglights said:
I watched a Prime video program Fat Fiction recently and although American and a bit long there are some interesting concepts to explain the whole obesity, diabetes, diet debate. My other half is a complete sceptic when it comes to 'diets' as he feels a DIET is something with a beginning and by definition an end which usually results in people losing weight and almost immediately putting it back on.
The program gives some scientific basis to the concept they promote which is the low carb regime but people need to make up their own minds on this approach.
I would be interested to hear what other people think.
Click to expand...

Yes, the idea of ‘healthiest diet’ is fascinating. I’ve read and watched a lot too. I think we all have to research widely, weigh up things, and choose an individuals. We also have to choose something that we can mainly stick to.

You mention Fat Fiction. I’ve seen that and read books by Gary Taube, Tim Noakes and Nina Teicholz. What I think shouldn’t really matter to you as you should examine all the evidence and make up your own mind. But you could try watching another view shown by documentaries such as Forks Over Knives and What The Health (both American too). They put the blame more on animal fats.
 
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