A broad church - low carb is not the only way

[Lucyr]

Carbs aren't demonic, they are simply dangerous in this context.
I do not - I hope - evangelise, I tell people how I managed to have normal levels and encourage working towards a similar outcome using the same methods of trying testing and trying again.
Eating a few carbs is not at all limiting, not in my experience - and who would be shaming anyone who finds that they can eat porridge?
Eating high carb foods and seeing high teen consequences a little later, well of course I would say something, how could I not?
With my father's mother dying from the consequences of diabetes mellitus when I was a youngster, I know what some people might face - one of the people on the course with me just after diagnosis was on the same path - and I really ought to have spoken to him then, not waited as he has since lost his lower leg. If I seem rather enthusiastic, there are very good reasons for it, I can assure you of that.

I don’t think this post is asking people to be less enthusiastic about their choice of diet. It’s asking people to recognise that being too enthusiastic can come across as unsupportive. Newly diagnosed diabetics are frequently made to feel at fault by whoever diagnosed them, and can often be given little information or support from the NHS. I think what new people often need most is to feel they have some support, to know that it’s not all their fault, and to help them feel confident in their ability to make changes to improve their health.

It’s just asking people to think of the way we give suggestions or experience, and whether what we write will come across as a post that encourages and supports someone in finding their own path, or whether it comes across as encouraging them to suddenly make an overwhelming amount of change all at once, and at a time when they’re already confused and overwhelmed.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Both “demonic” and “evangelising” were words used in this thread before I entered it @Drummer .... I simply repeated the words. You used “dangerous”. Carbs aren’t inherently dangerous. Nor evil, bad or any other synonym. Labelling them as such is wrong, as is labelling any other food group similarly.

Your diet might suit many, as you say, but the case is that other diets might suit many people too.

I disagree with the "many" to be honest. I think it's a very few, but it's a very loud evangelistical few. That's why I gave up on this forum, for a few years. It was simply hard work.

 

[Eddy Edson]

I disagree with the "many" to be honest. I think it's a very few, but it's a very loud evangelistical few. That's why I gave up on this forum, for a few years. It was simply hard work.

That's the way Internet echo chambers form. A few voices posting frequently => "The way we do things here" => join the club or move along.

How many newbies are clued up enough to realise that just because there's a group of people posting confidently & didactically & often, it doesn't mean that they have any qualifications or any true insight into anybody's circumstances except their own.

Frequent posters on this forum are certainly not a representative sample of the diabetic population, at least when it comes to T2D, and almost certainly not a representative sample of T2D's who have dealt with the problem. They are not "experts", and I think this should be made clearer to newbies.

 

[JJay]

I think most posters to the forum have the best of intentions but some can, I'm sure unwittingly, come across as somewhat judgmental and/or patronising.

I would like to see "this works for me - it may work for you" rather than "this is what you need to do".

 

[Becka]

I disagree with the "many" to be honest. I think it's a very few, but it's a very loud evangelistical few. That's why I gave up on this forum, for a few years. It was simply hard work.

When I was first diagnosed I thought it could be helpful to find an online community, found the red site, and did not last a week because it seemed to be more like a cult, attacking people who did not accept their truth.

I found this site last year when I needed advice after being unable to get help from my G.P. and it did feel a lot different. It seemed welcoming where people offered experience and advice but did not push anything in particular. But then after a while it started to become frustrating including, though still nothing like the red site, more people presenting a "virtually eliminate carbs or nothing will help" position. Quite probably the problem was it did not suit me personally, but it seemed less inclusive and welcoming so now I just visit occasionally.

 

[Inka]

That’s sad @Becka I like reading your posts. You always have something interesting to say.

 

[helli]

For me, managing my diabetes is about balance. As well as balancing the amount of insulin I dose to the food I eat and the exercise I do, it is about balancing the impact I am willing diabetes to make to my life.

I am sure I could get even better control - less highs and lows - if I ate low carb, accurately counted every carb I put in my mouth, undertake exactly the same exercise every day, avoid stressful situations at work, hide away so I don't catch a cold (a bit easier during lockdown), avoid alcohol, etc. but for me that is not a life I want to live.

One of the wonderful things about this community is the huge variety of members we have. For some, doing the same exercise every day is a perfect life, for some the stressful situations I find myself in at work would be frightful, others may consider my occasional nights down the pub (when they are open) with my friends and a few bottles of wine unnecessarily frivolous. These are all things that affect our diabetes just like diet does.

I chose my life balance and I hope the forum gives the guidance to others to chose the balance that suits them.

 

[Leadinglights]

Technical question
When I click on like it comes up with You in the list of likes, what am I doing wrong?

 

[Inka]

Technical question
When I click on like it comes up with You in the list of likes, what am I doing wrong?

Nothing - that’s telling you that you Liked the post. I’ll Like your post now and you’ll see my Like with my name but i’ll see it as “You” (because it’s telling me that I liked it)

 

[Leadinglights]

Nothing - that’s telling you that you Liked the post. I’ll Like your post now and you’ll see my Like with my name but i’ll see it as “You” (because it’s telling me that I liked it)

Thanks
Sue

 

[Drummer]

Both “demonic” and “evangelising” were words used in this thread before I entered it @Drummer .... I simply repeated the words. You used “dangerous”. Carbs aren’t inherently dangerous. Nor evil, bad or any other synonym. Labelling them as such is wrong, as is labelling any other food group similarly.

Your diet might suit many, as you say, but the case is that other diets might suit many people too.

I absolutely agree with you there - carbs are not inherently dangerous.
But evil and bad are not synonymous with the word dangerous.
I do not label them as such. I advise control, testing, know your limits, the classic behaviours of the sensible.
I will never describe anything to do with the deterioration and treatment of my grandmother, nor her eventual death - but seeing the person from the so called diabetes education sessions who had had his lower leg amputated struck me to the heart.
Whatever you eat, be sure that it is doing you no harm.

 

[helli]

Whatever you eat, be sure that it is doing you no harm.

If you read and believe everything, it is hard to find anything to eat that does no harm.
I think it is about understanding the harm it may do and make an informed decision.
For me, moderation is the key to this.
And not stigmatising food - the idea of "bad" food leads to feelings of guilt and, potentially eating disorders.

For example, alcohol can certainly do me harm but I chose to drink it understanding the risks, avoiding drinking to excess (whatever that means) and not drinking every day.
I do this because I enjoy the feeling alcohol gives me and the taste.

 

[Drummer]

If you read and believe everything, it is hard to find anything to eat that does no harm.
I think it is about understanding the harm it may do and make an informed decision.
For me, moderation is the key to this.
And not stigmatising food - the idea of "bad" food leads to feelings of guilt and, potentially eating disorders.

For example, alcohol can certainly do me harm but I chose to drink it understanding the risks, avoiding drinking to excess (whatever that means) and not drinking every day.
I do this because I enjoy the feeling alcohol gives me and the taste.

Exactly.
Read all, believe little.
There is nothing to replace your own experience, but then - the same can be said of your own feet, eyes or liver.

 

[Inka]

Which is why @helli mentioned moderation and balance...

I absolutely agree with you there - carbs are not inherently dangerous.
But evil and bad are not synonymous with the word dangerous.
I do not label them as such. I advise control, testing, know your limits, the classic behaviours of the sensible.
I will never describe anything to do with the deterioration and treatment of my grandmother, nor her eventual death - but seeing the person from the so called diabetes education sessions who had had his lower leg amputated struck me to the heart.
Whatever you eat, be sure that it is doing you no harm.

Yes, we all choose the diet that we hope will do us no harm. The point is that there are many potential diets that could fulfill that criterion and - again - no food group should be demonised not even “in this context”, as you phrased it earlier.

 

[Newbie777]

Just a gentle reminder to members that our forum is supposed to be a friendly and supportive place, which encourages members to find their own way through the available options to find a diabetes management approach that meets their ambitions, and is appealing and sustainable for them.

While there may be some common ground between approaches, there is no one way that works for everyone, and is appropriate for every situation. Specifically carbohydrates are not inherently ‘bad’, and should not be unfairly demonised any more than any other macronutrient. Some people will have a very low tolerance for carbohydrates, and may need to be particularly careful, and that's absolutely fine if it's the apporach that works for them, but that isn't necessarily the case for everyone. Everything in moderation, except laughter as AlanS used to say.

Former admin @Northerner has previously expressed this much more eloquently, but it feels worth repeating. Be kind to each other. And share your own experiences, but be gentle and sensitive to other views and approaches. Thanks for keeping the forum a friendly and helpful place.

We have had a few occasions recently where a conflict has occurred because of inappropriate advice being given, particularly when given to new members. I just wanted to make clear that the approach to dealing with these posts is to use the Report option so that the Moderators can be alerted to them and act accordingly - we get a red flag on our screens and this can then take us directly to the post in question, plus your reasons for reporting it, so we can act on it. Confronting members giving the advice in the thread can lead to unhelpful conflict that the new member will certainly not wish to see on their thread and leave a tangle of posts for the Moderators to sort out, or if that can't be done sensibly, the thread closed - which is the last thing we want to see.​

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What do I mean about 'inappropriate advice'? This is advice that seeks to instantly pitch the new member into some drastic dietary or lifestyle changes that may simply upset or worry them more and leave them even more confused than they were before they posted. There are, of course, many strategies for managing diabetes, particularly Type 2, but our approach here should always be to reassure the new member and provide them with information and strategies that will help them understand how diabetes affects them personally and guide them to sustainable management of their condition. It's a bit of a cliché, but diabetes really is a marathon, not a sprint - there is no point in going off hell for leather for the first 'mile' and then collapsing in a heap with 25 miles left to go because no-one explained how to train yourself properly to manage the whole distance.​

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We are not against diets such as LCHF and Atkins (for example) by any means - they have proven extremely successful for a lot of people - but they are not the only solution, nor are they necessary for a lot of people. I appreciate that some people may have instantly turned to radical changes and found it worked very well for them, but until you know much more about your audience, you should not assume it will work for them - and may possibly be dangerous, since you can't possibly know what other issues a person may have.​

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The Moderators will assess and act on any reported posts, however well-meaning they are intended to be (and I know that the majority are only posted with the best of intentions).​

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This is a good community, and it is important that all members do their best to keep it friendly, informative and supportive, thank you 🙂​

Hello,

This is very interesting and as a new member I have been loads of helpful advice.

I am not an expert and if I can would like to repay the favour by trying to help others.

However, in most of my posts I do indicate my personal experience and also to mention for the person to speak with a GP/DN just in case there may be other medical history.

I have never found anybody's approach or advice not friendly and yes some people do have different approaches and if that works for them, who am I to argue.

Some people like myself it is a wake up, others may or may not need it, but a gradual approach with understanding is far more important, and it can be trial and error.

i don't get offended, I am from up North and life is too short.

I will get off my soapbox now, but personally I don't find people views or approach difficult and it is not being forced, as the saying goes you can take a horse to the water..

 

[Kaylz]

And not stigmatising food - the idea of "bad" food leads to feelings of guilt and, potentially eating disorders.

Exactly this! xx

 

[trophywench]

When I was first diagnosed I thought it could be helpful to find an online community, found the red site, and did not last a week because it seemed to be more like a cult, attacking people who did not accept their truth.

I found this site last year when I needed advice after being unable to get help from my G.P. and it did feel a lot different. It seemed welcoming where people offered experience and advice but did not push anything in particular. But then after a while it started to become frustrating including, though still nothing like the red site, more people presenting a "virtually eliminate carbs or nothing will help" position. Quite probably the problem was it did not suit me personally, but it seemed less inclusive and welcoming so now I just visit occasionally.

I got banned from 'Red' fairly early on by stating that Low Carb was not the only way to go, IMHO there were other less drastic ways of dealing with T2 depending on how much change a person's diet actually needed ..... Ooops. I'm still banned, tried re registering there a few times when I've wondered what it's like these days but as soon as I enter my email address it tells me again 'You're banned!'

No loss as far as I'm concerned.

 

[nonethewiser]

I got banned from 'Red' fairly early on by stating that Low Carb was not the only way to go,

You & many more my dear.

Place started off as broad church make no mistake, remember it from early days. Not just non lc who get hard time, heaven forbid your vegetarian vegan as soon be hounded out or made unwelcome.

This forum so much better, mixture of folk who deal with condition own way & friendly to one another, helps having better organised admin team who don't allow intimidatory tactics to happen, so all for keeping this place one broad church.

 

[grovesy]

There are a few members who are on both!

 

[helli]

I got banned from 'Red' fairly early on by stating that Low Carb was not the only way to go, IMHO there were other less drastic ways of dealing with T2 depending on how much change a person's diet actually needed ..... Ooops. I'm still banned, tried re registering there a few times when I've wondered what it's like these days but as soon as I enter my email address it tells me again 'You're banned!'

No loss as far as I'm concerned.

My understanding of the data protection act is that unless you have given permission they cannot store personal data about you. Therefore, they should no longer be able to identify you to know that you are still banned.
When I was banned, I requested all my data was removed. I can now return if I desired.
As you say, no great loss though.