The 'New on Pump' thread!

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Sorry to hear you not feeling well, Patricia! Oh dear! Do let us know how you go. I have a bad back at the moment and it a bit hellish being ill yourself whilst trying to take care of the kids!

Will be really interested to hear how you get on with the sensors if you get them. Do keep us posted.

Bev - A daily journal/diary came with our VEO pump which i use. I think it is excellent as it has a page for each day and space to write boluses, corrections, basal rates, food eaten that day etc etc. I use the 'misc' row to show how much fast acting carb i have given him if he needs some. The one big problem with it is that it is so small! So if you have big writing then you are doomed! My plan is to copy it onto the computer and keep an electronic record instead but the journal certainly allows you to log it all!

Sorry Patricia, taking over your thread there! Anyway, I hope you feel better soon. Please take good care of yourself and get as much rest as possible. Will be thinking of you. xxxx
 
Hi Partricia and Mand,

Sorry your feeling ill Patricia, hope you feel better soon - i understand the idea of wanting to have swine flu - just for the antibodies! Hope it is/isnt what you want it to be!
Adrienne will tell you more about sensors - but from what i can gather, they seem difficult to use/understand at first and a few people are put off them, but apparently once you get the idea of them it makes night times so much easier to handle. (I am sure Adrienne will fill you in).😉

Mand, thanks for that info about the veo log book!I spent most of last evening trying to devise an electronic one! I am nearly there with it - i am aiming to get it so that if certain foods cause a higher spike (after the 2hr test) than it should, i want that particular food to be highlighted - so i am just trying to work out the maths side of things! But the way i have set mine out seems identical to the one you describe from veo - so i could use the manual log book and just input the electronic version every couple of days or so. Also, can i ask how many basals you have over the 24 hours? I want to input his basals - but not sure if they change hourly or is it more a couple of hours etc? Thanks.:D Bev
 
Morning all --

Well, it may just be a morning buzz, but I don't feel on the floor anymore and have no other symptoms :( so I doubt this is the pig one...E said he felt weirdly rough yesterday afternoon, but nothing has emerged there either, and his bgls also don't show any blip (hurray!). So whatever we are battling is mild...Shall try to *do* something then today! Useless day yesterday, sleeping and feeling swooshy every time I stood up!

Pasta update: 4 hours seems *almost* right for us (at the moment 🙄). Unbelievably, he tested at something like 7.6 after 2 hours, 5.2 after 3 hours, 6.3 after four hours (at which point dual wave ended). Then at five hours (one hour after ending) he was 5.3 ish. Then he had a shower, which may have hurried on the insulin, because when he emerged he was 4.3 and starting to feel a little wobbly. We deliberately made a straightforward dinner (roast chicken, new pots and corn for kids, salad for us!), and the evening also saw no spike from earlier pasta. So all good! What we think we will do next time is try five hours: he's going a little low after the dual wave finishes on 4 hours, so maybe extendiing it will spread things out a bit...? (Is this right? Does anyone know?!)

I can't *believe* the lack of spike...

Bedtime also looking good: was at 6.7 at 10.30pm. Because of all the fuss over the weekend, and two nights of weird 3am highs, we gave him some free carb *just to be sure*: half a glass of milk, and a small biscuit (about 11g). At 3am he was 8mmols! Yay. This is progress -- went up as we expected, and, provided he tests at around that number this morning (famous last words! 😱), I think we are certainly almost back to a secure nighttime rate.

Phew!

We have looked at evening numbers over last days though, and given that he has had a tendency to ride around 4-5mmol last thing (and we want him slightly higher for bedtime), we are pulling back the basal rates for 7-9pm and 9pm-12am by 0.05u/hr. You may remember that it was *precisely* these rates we raised a month ago! At the same time we changed the dinner ratio. This all worked for a while, but clearly now things have re-jigged and one of them is too much. The ratio seems a good one -- 2 hour post meal results are almost universally good; it's the pre-bedtime reading which is low: hence we are lowering the basal to raise him slightly.

I wouldn't be surprised if we amalgamate the two evening basal rates into one for the holidays; we eat later and he stays up later, so it could be we need to switch the whole thing to running from 8pm...but we'll see the effect of these tweaks first...(Watch this space as post meal rises once again! argh...)

***

Bev, we are very hooked into our spreadsheet from our pump consultant, which I think the hospital uses for everyone who is interested. We don't write on it -- excel, so lines too small! -- but it has spaces for things like basal rates, ratios, bgls, setting temp basals, free carbs, as well as a comments section for exercise, foods. My husband sits down with it every other day or so and fills it all in so we can see patterns -- or not! It has in-built a system of colours too -- green, yellow and red -- for bgls being in target, high, or low respectively. We send the sheets to our dietician/DSN every few days or as needed, and she responds with suggested changes highlighted in blue! Sounds complicated but works well for us.

Daily, we use the sheets I sent you to record in a messy way, just sitting in the kitchen.

Mand, I think we did get sent a log book with the MiniMed -- but we obviously decided against it completely! Guess we had too much on the go...

***
Re number of basal rates: we started with five rates, and have expanded during the school day to six I think...The shortest any one of ours runs is two hours; the longest, eight (through the night -- we find we are not dealing with a major dawn phenomenon, so don't ramp up the insulin until he's virtually out of bed -- 9.30am during holidays and weekends!)

For now!

xxoo
 
Waking level: 7.5mmols. Back in business... :D

well done Patricia,

can i just ask, i was wondering when you do a dual wave how long after is the insulin acive for?We know a bolus will last approx 4-5 hours depending on insulin type, will the dual wave last that long after or not because its been drip fed in? Hope you understand what i mean, 🙂
 
Know exactly what you mean, Tracey...We have struggled with this, and know nothing scientific about it. However, we started with the assumption that the insulin from a dual wave is likely to not reach its peak until about 2 hours after it ends, just like a normal bolus will reach its maximum strength 2-2.5 hours after injection.

In practice, this has turned out to be not quite right: we have found that almost without exception E has a lower bgl an hour after the finish of a dual wave than he did when the dual wave finished (eg on a 3 hour dual wave, he is lower at 4 hours than he was at 3 hours...). What is interesting is that it is a not a 'major' difference if the dual wave is going in properly, so he tends to drop only one or two mmols in the hour afterward.

We have recently begun to test two hours after the dual wave finishes, and have found very little difference from an hour after -- which leads us to conclude (unscientifically!) that the drip feed in means that there isn't the same whoosh in, so not the same peak...

It's also worth noting that we have found no 'surprises' with the dual wave in terms of being hit by insulin late or anything: it does what it says on the box. He has gone low-ish several times at the end of a dual wave though, and we think this simply means he needs to spread it out more...

Does that help?!
 
Waking level: 7.5mmols. Back in business... :D

Brilliant! The basal is what is worrying me when A goes on a pump, it seems to take ages to get it just right doesnt it? Having struggled on MDI with growth spurts - it feels like i will be starting all over again...

He he - it makes me laugh so much when i think if someone (not diabetic) stumbled across this site - what would they make of your comment above? Its a completely different language isnt it!But we all 'get it'!😱:DBev
 
Know exactly what you mean, Tracey...We have struggled with this, and know nothing scientific about it. However, we started with the assumption that the insulin from a dual wave is likely to not reach its peak until about 2 hours after it ends, just like a normal bolus will reach its maximum strength 2-2.5 hours after injection.

In practice, this has turned out to be not quite right: we have found that almost without exception E has a lower bgl an hour after the finish of a dual wave than he did when the dual wave finished (eg on a 3 hour dual wave, he is lower at 4 hours than he was at 3 hours...). What is interesting is that it is a not a 'major' difference if the dual wave is going in properly, so he tends to drop only one or two mmols in the hour afterward.

We have recently begun to test two hours after the dual wave finishes, and have found very little difference from an hour after -- which leads us to conclude (unscientifically!) that the drip feed in means that there isn't the same whoosh in, so not the same peak...

It's also worth noting that we have found no 'surprises' with the dual wave in terms of being hit by insulin late or anything: it does what it says on the box. He has gone low-ish several times at the end of a dual wave though, and we think this simply means he needs to spread it out more...

Does that help?!

yes thanks, thats interesting, so it seems to be working still approx for 1 hour later but no real peak, sounds a great concept.

glad you are feeling better today, wish it would stop raining off work this week :D
 
Hiya

Yes Bev, another language...argh! Basals do take ages to set, and the irritating thing is that with growing children they just don't stay 'set' -- you may find tho that you have a good first six or nine months with A -- he may not be going into his huge growth spurt yet, like I suspect E is! However, coming to understand how to adjust the basal, what that means, is like starting over -- but once grasped, just needs looking at! We are now back to the state though where every number is green -- for several days now. Incredible. So long may it last.

Tracey, it's also worth remembering that the bolus wizard (or equivalent) will remember how much insulin is active at any one time, so that's another way of tracing it through. When you eat something after a dual wave, it will let you know how much of the dw it thinks is still active. This won't help with knowing the *peak* of it, but will in terms of dosing afterward...
 
Thank you Patricia for your very detailed and informative post. Gosh, it is all so very interesting! (though, to a non diabetic, it certainly must all sound a little odd! :D).

I am still just using the veo daily journal but if you, Bev or anyone has anything better then i would love to take a look, if it ok with you.

Bev, my son on the following at moment:

midnight to 6am = 0.65
6am to 8pm = 7.0
8pm to midnight = 0.6

Patricia, We still not been taught bolus wizard yet but interesting to read how it works.

Hope you feeling much better soon. 🙂🙂
 
Hi Patricia! 🙂

I am so sorry that I havent been on the thread properly for a while and replied (I hold my head in shame, I see it was 21st July!). Your thread is great fun, but I like to read all of what you have put and write a proper reply so tend not to do it on one of my flying visits!

So I have just read five pages! You cheered me up no-end with the IKEA hell! Someone really should bring out a T-shirt with that on the front! As I said before, I dont think any company has manufactured the pump capable of fending the chip carbs away.....it must be like something out of the ghostbusters!

I read your "lessons" with great interest. Temp basal is a god in disguise. But I sympathise, I also forgot to set one the other day when I meant to and crashed completely. As my DSN says, the pump is only as clever as you are! (oh crap!).

I am also using the Veo book, because I have rather unfortunately been told to by my DSN. Mand were you not given the Carelink? Or are you on mac as well? Apologies if this sounds like I am preaching to the converted but if you use Medtronic witht he Carelink you dont need to write them down. You can view your results in any way you prefer, including a log book format. Rather useful. If it is somethign you havent pursued as yet but are interested to know more, the Carelink brochure is downloadable on the medtronic website.

How long has E been on the pump now? I am loosing track of all time. I already cant imagine things without it and I think I am on day 23!! Are you still enjoying it patricia, or are you finding it very labour intensive? I only ask that because I think that is what is happening to me this week, I finally, just caught up with myself....and found myself completely shattered. You seem to have boundless energy and I am jelous!

Thanks for everything you are sharing patricia, I am really enjoying it and learning too. Loving your numbers!

Take care xx
 
Hello all

Sorry for long time!

Continued to feel slightly under the weather, just whacked really and a bit dizzy etc...Then both E and my daughter seem to be suffering -- not loads, but enough to reduce productivity all round!

Anyway. Back now. Thanks to all for replies and support. Always so glad for them.

I'll admit too that I just couldn't bring myself to post on Saturday, as Friday night we had another one of those *very* low lows...And this frightens me so much, I felt all was lost, was overwhelmed, etc. And I just sort of checked out of life on Saturday really.

Friday night we dual waved for four hours some pasta with a prawn/tomato sauce. By three hours he was low, so had some apple juice. Good level at 4 hours (7 or something), but an hour and half later, he was 1.3!!! 😱This was midnight. We woke him (grumpy), treated, set temp basal at 75% until 3am, checked again at 1am. At 3am he was 10mmols, so took off temp basal. Was 9mmol in morning.

So....I confess this event completely knocked me for six, and shook me up all Saturday. My husband is absolutely right in his belief that this is why we have systems -- which we do. Because this is how we catch things. And we never cut corners. We never would have let him go through the end of a dual wave without checking at least an hour after it finished. Nevertheless, my brain goes crazy: how will he manage as an adult? What if, what if?:confused

Okay, so. That panic aside, we do think we understand something of what happened. We also continued to experiment with pasta over the weekend, and came up with some vague conclusions:

1) four hour dual waves seem to be good for pasta with sauces that are high in fat (eg bolognaise or cheesy/creamy) as long as not too late at night.

2) we tried 40/60 yesterday for four hours (fatty pasta), and he was still 10mmols at end of it. Back to 30/70 then...

3) we will try three or even two hour dual waves for pasta with low fat sauces (eg prawn and flipping tomato!!). A dual wave that is too long for the digestion rate makes a hypo!

4) going low at the end of a dual wave does NOT indicate that the dual wave needs to be longer; it indicates that dual wave needs to be shorter. A higher bgl at end of wave would indicate that it needs to be longer, in order to spread out insulin dose for delayed spike...

Furthermore....

1) we need to be wary of large carbohydrate meals late in the evening. It's clear that E's insulin sensitivity increases in the evening, and esp coming up to midnight. This is not the first time that trailing insulin that late has produced real problems. He seems much more likely to crash that time of night than any other time of day or night, and just pings down with the slightest leftover bolus...

2) we tried the baked potato/cheese/beans combo on Saturday night. As so aptly predicted by Adrienne, it was, er, not successful 😱. We did not dual wave, never having split a baked potato dose before, but he did go a little low (classic sign of needing to dual wave!) after the meal, and then, ta-da! woke on 16mmol yesterday morning. Oops. Having gone to bed on 7.5mmols. I think we will dual wave next time, heaven knows for how long.

***

Along with all this dual waving, I had waves of panic myself that it was all change again, that we had barely hit a pattern and he was changing and blah blah...well it turns out a) he was *little* poorly, so had a couple of blips on Saturday but probably more importantly b) his ratio for a mid-morning snack was still set at school levels, eg pretty high (1:12) so that he wouldn't hypo before his late lunch. Over the weekend, he's actually been having breakfast at about 10.00/10.30am, which means that this was going in on a high ratio, which accounts for a spike before lunch...SO have changed this ratio to lunch levels (which is lower than snack) and we'll see what happens...

So I was panicking and predicting the end of the world for no reason. Not for the first time. 😱

***

It is, though, SO MUCH always to keep track of and remember. And I do find it all a bit of a downer sometimes. Good control can be SUCH hard work. Even on a pump.

***

Good news is around though, of course.🙂

1) night rates appear to remain solid as a rock. We have not got up to test the last three nights. We have managed to get him to bed on between 6.5-8mmol, and he's safe there.

2) he's sleeping in as long as he wants. We usually test him between 8.30 and 9.30am, but even if he doesn't eat until 10.30, his level is FINE. Amazing!

3) the huge majority of his numbers continue to be in range, with the odd single number or occasional half day blip...We like them apples!


***

E has been 'live' on insulin since 9 June. Seems like two minutes! But already, injections have faded incredibly in my memory, and probably his. I asked him the question Alex wanted to know, what the best thing about being on the pump is...And his answer: being able to eat what you want when you want!

I suspect that the incredibly unpredictable levels, and the accompanying helplessness and length of time it took to sort them on MDI have completely slipped his mind. I suspect that decent levels feel so immediately in reach for him that the real despair of constantly swinging levels is no longer even in the picture. He wanted to be on the pump because he wanted good levels. Now that he's here, he finds that the best thing is something unexpected: his real enjoyment of food has returned.

Okay guys. Another essay post! Oh well. Will now go catch up on others' threads...

xxoo
 
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Oh Patricia, I do so understand how you feel!

The pump is wonderful, everything is so controlable and good numbers are easier to achieve, no injections and can eat more freely... BUT! yes, it is so tiring! Keeping track of everything, noting what has been eaten, hypos, blood readings, basal changes, 3am checks!!!!!!

I too, have days of panic about when my son is older and having to do it all by himself but i am trying to make myself just take a day at a time. Also i imagine that by the time they are adults, more advancements will have been made and the maintenance of their diabetes might get easier.

Your posts are always so interesting to read, so thank you.

Listen, you have a wonderful and well deserved holiday in Scotland! Tell us all about it when you return! 🙂 xx 🙂
 
Hi Patricia,

I just read the whole of your last post and my heart goes out to you. I cant imagine what you must go through when E has a hypo so low. I can only anticipate it must be terrifying. especially when the new experience of pump is at times so hard to control.

I am sure it is only natural to wonder how he will grow and live as an adult with diabetes. I am not sure if this can offer you any reasurrance but I have lived alone in a flat for 6 years, 90 miles away from my family. I am fiercly independant and have developed my routines and built my safety net that helps me through the bad times. When I hypo, the vast majority of times I am alone, but there are ways of coping. Nothing is fool-proof, but I am sure with the great input you have given E from the begining you can really have faith he will take everything you have taught him into his adulthood.

Where are you going in scotland? Somewhere nice I hope! I went to the Cairngorms earlier this year and fell in love with it. Hope you and the family have a fantastic time. Do enlighten me with what you decide to pack! I do so hope that after all the supplies are packed there is still room for a child or two....!

Patricia, you have a good heart. I imagine you have now dealt with how you felt over the weekend and have re-started the week but keep posting, we are here with you.

Please excuse me now or there will be no point going to bed before the 3 am check!

Lots of love Lou xx
 
Thank you Mand and Lou -- I am hugely comforted. I think there is still a part of me that sinks into denial: this can't be happening. So I almost can't see how it's going to work. And I get cross and upset, foot-stomping mad at the world...Sigh.

E is actually incredibly together about his diabetes. Who knows for how long -- I know he is only at the start of his teens.... I feel in my heart that he will pretty much look after himself. And he's a big one for routine, so that's good news! He's also quite risk averse, which I'm guessing will serve him well.

My battle is with what I wish for him. And it isn't this. But here we have it. I'm angry that he has to deal with all this for the rest of his life. And sad that our level of worry will always be a degree more (though pushed away!)...

But I'm indulging myself too much. I admire your ferocity Lou, and know that my son too has this inner strength. He will not let much stop him, in his quietly confident way. Do you have things set up with neighbours Lou? With friends? How are you finding your systems coping with the pump?

Yesterday saw good numbers again in this camp, though mid-morning still a little high. He's gone to town today though so we won't tweak that basal yet. The tweaking will occur when he is in the usual xbox morning thing! Hypo before dinner, but he'd been riding around 4-5mmols all late afternoon after a light lunch, not done anything about it! Then got involved in something. Didn't feel this hypo, but I suspect that's because it was so gradual and related to hunger too. Quickly up with juice and food.

Pasta again last night (we WILL nail this a bit!). Three hour dual wave, good results, 4.3mmols an hour after finish, so probably a little long. Am thinking now about trying 2.5 hours for this.

Gave some juice and 8g free carb. At 12.30 (2.5 hours after finish of dual wave) was 6.6mmols, so we deemed he was safe to leave. I spent some minutes in the dead of night convincing myself that he had virtually *no* bolus floating around and was highly unlikely to make a plummet for the 1's...and eventually slept.

He woke this morning on 8mmols: pasta! We may well opt for a slightly increased temp basal for eight hours or so with this pasta lark, as suggested by Adrienne some time ago. This way we could dual wave for a couple of hours, then just peg it all down slightly over a MUCH longer time... We'll see!

For now. Thanks again all.

xxoo
 
All still sounding good, Patricia. As i said before, i completely understand your fear for hwne he grown up and living independantly. But, lets face it, he cannot possibly have any better guidance than you already give him and i believe that will set him up for life! You are both stars to me! x 🙂 x
 
Thanks Mand, gulp! Most entertaining part of day so far is him ringing from town and asking his father how much he should bolus for a 'very large glass of strawberry milkshake'. Uh...right. After faffing about they decided on 55g (straight down the middle between iPhone's carb counting application and Collins Gem!). This plus lunch later gave him a mild hypo...but all well.

Great thing about the pump though: he can have a strawberry milkshake! (it was M & S apparently, before anyone gets too het up that he's eating horribly! He's picky about food quality, and while his friend is enjoying pick n mix bought in town even as I write this, E turns up his nose at it!)
 
Hope he enjoyed his milkshake and that his levels were ok after it. Yes, isn't it lovely now they can do this because of the pump! 🙂🙂🙂
 
Yep levels generally fine thanks Mand, though he fought lows all afternoon and all evening, despite a little temp basal-ing. We think that he's been so horizontal since the end of school that even the walk around town and then the woods rather did him in! So we set him on temp basal half of last night too, just to be sure. Checked at 3am and he was 11mmol, so took him off. But then unusually woke at 6.9 this morning -- not sure why he dropped? Perhaps indicates that he was still processing glucose quickly, so could have been on a lower temp basal all night...Not sure. Will check all other temp basal usages and see if dropping happens...

Anyway, he will no doubt be on almost constant temp basal pattern once in Scotland etc! In fact we were discussing this morning that we shall probably set up another pattern. There will be lots of walking, and he will no doubt need reduced basal across the board. Here we go again...!

We are in Edinburgh for 3 days (never been ! looking forward to it!), then on Mull for four days with close friends (yay! been before for three days without husband, was brilliant -- seals, sailing, very dramatic. Looking forward to being together there.), then to the Lake District for a week -- a place we know well and love. And we are hoping against hope that we will be able to walk this time. Those of you around at Easter may remember that it was during this time that E's numbers when sky-high, 15+ round the clock...and day after day we couldn't walk or do anything. It was really dire. We just could not get them down. Four months after diagnosis and we couldn't get support, all on holiday etc. Dreadful. Just pumped the insulin in and hoped to keep him out of hospital, which we did...

Anyway, we feel sure this time will be better. Back to some of our favourite things. Phew.

xxoo
 
All sounds good, Patricia! I hope you and your family have the fantastic, relaxing and fun holiday that you all thoroughly deserve! Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🙂
 
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