Probably Type 2 - Devastated

[Lucyr]

1 question I do have though - a lot of the advice above mentions low carb diets, but I am sure the person I spoke to on the helpline advised a meal should be 1/4 Protein, 1/4 Carbs and have fibre, but try to keep fats low? Maybe I wrote it down wrong.

Low carb doesn’t mean no carbs. Half plate veg, quarter carb and quarter protein is the advised diet for diabetes and weight loss. Quarter plate of carbs would fit in a low carb diet which is 130g carbs a day

 

[Tac0caT]

Low carb doesn’t mean no carbs. Half plate veg, quarter carb and quarter protein is the advised diet for diabetes and weight loss. Quarter plate of carbs would fit in a low carb diet which is 130g carbs a day

Thank you for confirming. Quarter of a plate of carbs sounds huge so think that must be where I got confused

 

[Lucyr]

Thank you for confirming. Quarter of a plate of carbs sounds huge so think that must be where I got confused

Only if your plate is the size of a bin lid. If it’s a normal sized plate then quarter plate of carbs is a few new potatoes or a small scoop of pasta etc.

 

[harbottle]

1 question I do have though - a lot of the advice above mentions low carb diets, but I am sure the person I spoke to on the helpline advised a meal should be 1/4 Protein, 1/4 Carbs and have fibre, but try to keep fats low? Maybe I wrote it down wrong.

How does that person on a helpline know how many carbs your metabolism can handle without blood glucose going chronically high?

IMHO people are better of testing to see what happens and then working out what they can and can't handle. Ignore plates and all this nonsense about 150g or whatever.

 

[Felinia]

Lucyr has it spot on. I just measured my plate and it is 10" diameter. I usually have 1/2 to 2/3 plate of veggies. The breakfast and lunch you described sounded just fine - plenty of protein, some fruit and veggies and a little dairy. I've looked through pictures of my meals to give you some ideas. As you can see - two typical meals, on said 10" plate. I certainly don't go hungry!
I've no doubt you felt tired because a) you didn't eat enough and b) stress!! A normal working man needs more than you ate yesterday, so please don't make yourself ill.

 

[Felinia]

As you can see, we all have different ideas. I do partially agree with harbottle regarding testing and finding out what suits you, but also I think that what you need to do is follow a sustainable eating plan. If that means following suggested guidelines until you have worked things out for yourself, so be it.

 

[Kernow-Debra]

Hi Pip, Apologies for the late response. I haven't received an official diagnosis yet either.

Just my last test indicates I have it.

Whether my route is doing any good or not remains to be seen - I have eaten 10g of carbs yesterday, and only 545 calories.

After getting a bit emotional at work and calling the Diabetes Helpline, today I have been and done a small shop for some foods referenced in the guides above.

1 question I do have though - a lot of the advice above mentions low carb diets, but I am sure the person I spoke to on the helpline advised a meal should be 1/4 Protein, 1/4 Carbs and have fibre, but try to keep fats low? Maybe I wrote it down wrong.

Tomorrows breakfast is Greek yoghurt and Blueberries, lunch will be a 3 egg egg omelette with cherry tomatoes and some Feta cheese. Haven't worked out what my evening meal will be yet though.

Interestingly I still do not have any of the symptoms. I counted yesterday and I only urinated 5 times, my thirst is no different than usual (so far 3 pints of water at work, left at 1420 and I have just cracked open a bottle of water), I did feel tired at work today but that might be down to the lack of calories.

Maybe this is wishful thinking, or me looking for a way for this to be a mistake but I have read that stress and anxiety can raise hba1c results. As mentioned above I have had a rough time with Anxiety for the last 6 months, and also I have been pretty stressed from work and my wife's health too, also I quit smoking cold turkey in 2013 and started vaping in 2015 after a particularly stressful period and have been vaping since, if anything it is my mouth as much as possible - and although there are no long term studies on whether vaping can increase hba1c, there are short term that suggests it can raise it by at least 1mmol/mol. Nicotine itself can raise hba1c apparently by up to 34%. Also Vegetable Glycerin (used in the eliquid) apparently metabolises in the body as sugar.

At this point I am seriously considering just putting the vape down and seeing what happens.

Can I ask the source of your statement about nicotine, vegetable glycerin and vaping raising hba1c?

I’ve been vaping for over 7 years now, have never felt better after stopping smoking for 35 years.
Can also say that diagnosis with an hba1c of 87, which I dropped to 38 in 3 months, have maintained for 18 months with results of 37, 36 and 35. No meds, just low carb diet and light exercise and yes throughout all that time, plenty of nicotine and vegetable glycerin. Neither of which affect my hba1c.

 

[Tac0caT]

Can I ask the source of your statement about nicotine, vegetable glycerin and vaping raising hba1c?

I’ve been vaping for over 7 years now, have never felt better after stopping smoking for 35 years.
Can also say that diagnosis with an hba1c of 87, which I dropped to 38 in 3 months, have maintained for 18 months with results of 37, 36 and 35. No meds, just low carb diet and light exercise and yes throughout all that time, plenty of nicotine and vegetable glycerin. Neither of which affect my hba1c.

I found this information on vaping raising Hba1c - Here, Nicotine - Here

In regards to the VG claim, having looked again it would appear that is wrong - it is classed as a Carbohydrate, but is a Polyol apparently that does not metabolise as sugar.

I am glad that you're vaping and not having issues though - out of curiosity could you possibly tell me which strength Nic you're on, and how much you vape please?

 

[Tac0caT]

Lucyr has it spot on. I just measured my plate and it is 10" diameter. I usually have 1/2 to 2/3 plate of veggies. The breakfast and lunch you described sounded just fine - plenty of protein, some fruit and veggies and a little dairy. I've looked through pictures of my meals to give you some ideas. As you can see - two typical meals, on said 10" plate. I certainly don't go hungry!
I've no doubt you felt tired because a) you didn't eat enough and b) stress!! A normal working man needs more than you ate yesterday, so please don't make yourself ill.

View attachment 30921View attachment 30922

Yes, I think you're right. Tomorrow I am going to aim for 3 meals - thank you for the pictures that does give me some ideas.

In light of not having the kit to carry out glucose testing yet, and without an official diagnosis, I think I will try just 150g carbs per day and see how I get on.

I may even try a wholemeal bread sandwich, or something like Sourdough or Rye.

 

[Kernow-Debra]

I found this information on vaping raising Hba1c - Here, Nicotine - Here

In regards to the VG claim, having looked again it would appear that is wrong - it is classed as a Carbohydrate, but is a Polyol apparently that does not metabolise as sugar.

I am glad that you're vaping and not having issues though - out of curiosity could you possibly tell me which strength Nic you're on, and how much you vape please?

Thanks for your reply, I would take as much much notice from the NHS on vaping as I would from the NHS advice about eating the Eatwell plate!
And the second article seems a bit all over the place, could raise, might lower etc.
I can only speak for me and I would strongly dispute both articles.
However, I’m an old school vaper. I despise the current trend for high nicotine disposable vapes.
I knew when they came on the scene it would be bad news for vaping.
I totally agree with the proposed ban on them, but I’m concerned they’ve thrown the baby out with the bath water by the proposed ban on all flavours.
I originally started on the old pen type vape, 18mg nicotine. Then got a better set up and quickly reduced to 3mg. I’ve been on 3mg for years,
I have dallied with 0 but no can do.
For me it’s very important to note that nicotine is not the bad guy, it’s not carcinogenic and I make my own juice which I know contains no nasties.
Can’t say the same for the disposable craze.
How much do I vape? I’ve never really thought about it, as much as I like to keep me off the tobacco, which is the real bad guy.
Sadly the disposable craze has turned vaping into a perceived dirty habit and I fear tobacco will be making a comeback.

 

[Drummer]

Yes, I think you're right. Tomorrow I am going to aim for 3 meals - thank you for the pictures that does give me some ideas.

In light of not having the kit to carry out glucose testing yet, and without an official diagnosis, I think I will try just 150g carbs per day and see how I get on.

I may even try a wholemeal bread sandwich, or something like Sourdough or Rye.

I have to wonder why you would eat a high carb food such as bread with no way to check what effect they have on your blood glucose.
As your HbA1c is 80 I suspect that your blood glucose is in the teens - my blood glucose was 17.1 and HbA1c was 91 at the time of the diagnostic test.
To reduce down to normal numbers I had to stick to a maximum of 50gm of carbs a day. I believe some people can cope with 150gm of carbs a day, but there seem to be far more who have to go lower to see normal numbers. I'd really advise you to wait until you can test what you are eating before starting to settle on including any amount of high carb foods. I found that despite my ability to resist anything but temptation, routine and habit really help with how I eat.

 

[Felinia]

Yes, I think you're right. Tomorrow I am going to aim for 3 meals - thank you for the pictures that does give me some ideas.

In light of not having the kit to carry out glucose testing yet, and without an official diagnosis, I think I will try just 150g carbs per day and see how I get on.

I may even try a wholemeal bread sandwich, or something like Sourdough or Rye.

Sounds like a sensible place to start. Too much carb reduction too soon can cause temporary eye problems. There are various low carb breads on the market, which I initially tried. It's a question of taste - I just didn't like them but others have found them fine. In the end I settled for Warburtons no added sugar medium sliced wholemeal. A slice from a 400gm loaf is around 9gm a slice, but I suspect you might find that slice too small and thin. The 800gm loaf is bigger, thicker and about 17gm a slice. One slice is an ideal base for an open sandwich, with filling and salad piled on top.
Funny thing - when I have been unable to get it and tried another brand, I've noticed how sweet that bread tastes.

I'm going to post a couple of pictures of my breakfast and lunch - more ideas. Breakfast is on a 6" plate with a small slice of bread. Soup is homemade and can be taken in a thermos. Salad can be pre-packed and taken in a container with a chill pack on top (I used to use an old ice cream container)

 

[Tac0caT]

Thanks for your reply, I would take as much much notice from the NHS on vaping as I would from the NHS advice about eating the Eatwell plate!
And the second article seems a bit all over the place, could raise, might lower etc.
I can only speak for me and I would strongly dispute both articles.
However, I’m an old school vaper. I despise the current trend for high nicotine disposable vapes.
I knew when they came on the scene it would be bad news for vaping.
I totally agree with the proposed ban on them, but I’m concerned they’ve thrown the baby out with the bath water by the proposed ban on all flavours.
I originally started on the old pen type vape, 18mg nicotine. Then got a better set up and quickly reduced to 3mg. I’ve been on 3mg for years,
I have dallied with 0 but no can do.
For me it’s very important to note that nicotine is not the bad guy, it’s not carcinogenic and I make my own juice which I know contains no nasties.
Can’t say the same for the disposable craze.
How much do I vape? I’ve never really thought about it, as much as I like to keep me off the tobacco, which is the real bad guy.
Sadly the disposable craze has turned vaping into a perceived dirty habit and I fear tobacco will be making a comeback.

Yes, I was originally on 0mg back in 2015 but quickly went to 3mg where I remained until I saw disposables and dabbled with them, as they were 20mg but nic salt, it gave me a "fun" headrush that I hadn't had for a few years but I quickly adjusted to that and they stopped, and so I stopped with the disposables. I then switched my 3mg to a 6mg Nic Salt B which I still use now and now exclusively use a POD system rather than the high voltage vapes and disposables.

I used to make my own from scratch, trying all different recipes from a popular mixing site, but I now just use a company that mixes the concentrates for me and I add the Nic, PG & VG.

Maybe I might try going back to 3mg and see if that makes a difference too.

 

[Tac0caT]

I have to wonder why you would eat a high carb food such as bread with no way to check what effect they have on your blood glucose.
As your HbA1c is 80 I suspect that your blood glucose is in the teens - my blood glucose was 17.1 and HbA1c was 91 at the time of the diagnostic test.
To reduce down to normal numbers I had to stick to a maximum of 50gm of carbs a day. I believe some people can cope with 150gm of carbs a day, but there seem to be far more who have to go lower to see normal numbers. I'd really advise you to wait until you can test what you are eating before starting to settle on including any amount of high carb foods. I found that despite my ability to resist anything but temptation, routine and habit really help with how I eat.

I do see what you're saying, but in my panic to make a start right now I have eaten about 1000 calories over the last 48 hours and only about 20g carbs because I had no idea of the best way to go about it. Yes I want to make things better, but I also don't want to make things worse by not eating enough, etc.

As I haven't actually been diagnosed yet, my GP has just left me to my own devices until the results of the next test which will likely be the Monday/Tuesday after next and I don't think it would be good for me to carry on eating so little for all of that time - it isn't sustainable.

Once I have an official diagnosis I will do everything by the book, and if that includes testing blood glucose frequently then I will do it.

I guess I am just looking at it like the changes I am implementing already is a good start, Less carbs, getting more active, cutting out added sugar.

 

[Tac0caT]

Sounds like a sensible place to start. Too much carb reduction too soon can cause temporary eye problems. There are various low carb breads on the market, which I initially tried. It's a question of taste - I just didn't like them but others have found them fine. In the end I settled for Warburtons no added sugar medium sliced wholemeal. A slice from a 400gm loaf is around 9gm a slice, but I suspect you might find that slice too small and thin. The 800gm loaf is bigger, thicker and about 17gm a slice. One slice is an ideal base for an open sandwich, with filling and salad piled on top.
Funny thing - when I have been unable to get it and tried another brand, I've noticed how sweet that bread tastes.

I'm going to post a couple of pictures of my breakfast and lunch - more ideas. Breakfast is on a 6" plate with a small slice of bread. Soup is homemade and can be taken in a thermos. Salad can be pre-packed and taken in a container with a chill pack on top (I used to use an old ice cream container)

View attachment 30928View attachment 30929View attachment 30930View attachment 30931

In the past I have used Warburtons Danish 400g loaves, I could live that size, and 9g carbs a slice is low. I will give that one a try, thank you.

All of that looks delicious, particularly the Turkey rashers, egg and mushroom breakfast!

 

[Gwynn]

Hi, yup I was one of those with high 3 figures... 150.

Now I am on no meds, exercise every day and control my diet (with a few snacks) and HbA1c has been in the normal range for years now.

Best advice I was given was on this web site forum: reduce carbs, exercise, lose weight.

Second best advice from this web site forum: don't panic (easier said than done), be careful what you read/see on the internet/utube, enjoy becoming healthier happer more in control.

Down side? You have to pay attention to your lifestyle, diet, health.

For many it's a wake up call... plan your future...

Good luck and ask about what you need to know (assuming you know what you need to know about).

Food is not your enemy (well too many carbs is). I still enjoy my food because I decide carefully what to eat.

Watch what people on this forum do and know that what works for one person may not work for another, but there's always things you can do to improve things for you.

 

[Leadinglights]

I do see what you're saying, but in my panic to make a start right now I have eaten about 1000 calories over the last 48 hours and only about 20g carbs because I had no idea of the best way to go about it. Yes I want to make things better, but I also don't want to make things worse by not eating enough, etc.

As I haven't actually been diagnosed yet, my GP has just left me to my own devices until the results of the next test which will likely be the Monday/Tuesday after next and I don't think it would be good for me to carry on eating so little for all of that time - it isn't sustainable.

Once I have an official diagnosis I will do everything by the book, and if that includes testing blood glucose frequently then I will do it.

I guess I am just looking at it like the changes I am implementing already is a good start, Less carbs, getting more active, cutting out added sugar.

I don't think there can be any doubt about your diagnosis with an HbA1C of 80, yes if you were just over the diagnostic threshold of 47 then maybe.
The risk of reducing carbs too quickly is very real, I reduced to 70g per day in one go and had problems with my eyes, everything out of focus for several months so the advise not to panic and reduce more gradually is sound. If you work out what carbs you were having and reduce by one third for a week, then another third etc until you get to the suggested no more than 130g per day is much kinder of eyes and nerves.
Concentrate on carbs not calories as it is hard to do both. Remember you need to replace the carbs with protein and healthy fats otherwise you will feel hungry and have no energy.

 

[Drummer]

I do see what you're saying, but in my panic to make a start right now I have eaten about 1000 calories over the last 48 hours and only about 20g carbs because I had no idea of the best way to go about it. Yes I want to make things better, but I also don't want to make things worse by not eating enough, etc.

As I haven't actually been diagnosed yet, my GP has just left me to my own devices until the results of the next test which will likely be the Monday/Tuesday after next and I don't think it would be good for me to carry on eating so little for all of that time - it isn't sustainable.

Once I have an official diagnosis I will do everything by the book, and if that includes testing blood glucose frequently then I will do it.

I guess I am just looking at it like the changes I am implementing already is a good start, Less carbs, getting more active, cutting out added sugar.

I have always found that calories just don't add up - I react to decreased intake of calories by feeling really bad, slow and tired, to conserve energy.
Once I cut the carbs everything started to come right, no matter how much I ate or did not eat of the essential food groups, proteins and fats, I headed back into normal numbers and felt a lot better.
You are more likely to get either no advice or bad advice and be told not to test, I'm afraid. The idea of punishing our bodies for failing to cope with a modern diet and failing is firmly entrenched. 'They' just don't want to admit that the advice is wrong about how to look after a Human.

 

[Tac0caT]

I don't think there can be any doubt about your diagnosis with an HbA1C of 80, yes if you were just over the diagnostic threshold of 47 then maybe.
The risk of reducing carbs too quickly is very real, I reduced to 70g per day in one go and had problems with my eyes, everything out of focus for several months so the advise not to panic and reduce more gradually is sound. If you work out what carbs you were having and reduce by one third for a week, then another third etc until you get to the suggested no more than 130g per day is much kinder of eyes and nerves.
Concentrate on carbs not calories as it is hard to do both. Remember you need to replace the carbs with protein and healthy fats otherwise you will feel hungry and have no energy.

Funnily enough I have pulled the data from an app I use to log my food - Unfortunately I don't log every day, I have 25 days logged in the 3 months leading up to my blood test, which I realise is a very small sample size.

My highest carb day was 248.4g, and the lowest 51.9g. The average of those 25 days is 116.5g of carbs.

The plan at the start of this year was to try and hit my protein target and then just fill in the blanks with carbs and fats until I hit my calorie goal, however it would appear that it has descended into chaos as the carbs are quite sporadic and obviously the test result. This will undoubtedly be due to my love of Pizza, and the easy element of a Tesco meal deal.

I guess if I just set the bar at 150g for now and if I get issues with my eyes I can adjust?

 

[Tac0caT]

I have always found that calories just don't add up - I react to decreased intake of calories by feeling really bad, slow and tired, to conserve energy.
Once I cut the carbs everything started to come right, no matter how much I ate or did not eat of the essential food groups, proteins and fats, I headed back into normal numbers and felt a lot better.
You are more likely to get either no advice or bad advice and be told not to test, I'm afraid. The idea of punishing our bodies for failing to cope with a modern diet and failing is firmly entrenched. 'They' just don't want to admit that the advice is wrong about how to look after a Human.

Yes, I think I will need to get out of the mindset of calorie counting then.

That will tough I think. I have spent a few years now thinking "I need to reduce fats, and restrict my calories but not too low.", but Diabetes will turn this on its head quite possibly.