NHS Low Calorie Diet - Type 2 Remission Programme - Oviva (aka Newcastle)

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harbottle said:
Don't know - ketones are produced when the body needs energy and everyone creates a small amount when fasting or during exercise as the liver produces them from fats. If blood sugar is going very high it means the body can't get energy from glucose so it produces ketones as an energy source, but too much is bad and leads to diabetic ketosis (I think.) but things have to be very very wrong for that to happen, and mainly in type 1s who produce very little/no insulin.

Many T2s have high 'fasting' levels because their metabolism can't deal with the 'basal' glucose generated by the liver (And it's actually generating quite a bit every hour) so levels rise. I believe the liver doesn't stop producing it when it should as well. This is because the liver becomes 'insulin resistant' and doesn't respond to rising levels of insulin properly.
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Thanks fir that. i really think thats what is happening . So hoping my bloods show what is going on . Not long to wait as having bloods taken this Tuesday . I guess by Friday i should have the results back.
Another thing thats confusing me id if I am insulin resistant then if they prescribe insulin it will not bring my sugars down ?
 
My understanding is that people become insulin resistant because their body is producing too much insulin in response to a high carbohydrate diet.
Dietary ketones produced when people adopt a very very low carbohydrate diet are different from ketones produced in diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA).
To help reduce insulin resistance and help the liver not to release glucose and help to body use the insulin it is producing more efficiently then metformin is often prescribed. If somebody has insulin resistance then even injected insulin may not be able to be used properly and they would alos need to take metformin.
The whole thing is quite complicated.
 
Leadinglights said:
My understanding is that people become insulin resistant because their body is producing too much insulin in response to a high carbohydrate diet.
Dietary ketones produced when people adopt a very very low carbohydrate diet are different from ketones produced in diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA).
To help reduce insulin resistance and help the liver not to release glucose and help to body use the insulin it is producing more efficiently then metformin is often prescribed. If somebody has insulin resistance then even injected insulin may not be able to be used properly and they would alos need to take metformin.
The whole thing is quite complicated.
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yes, its too complicated. I wish we had a program in our area that was nom judgemental. I have to somehow get a plan and a way forward that will work for me.
 
Nayshiftin said:
Thsts it i dont do anything tight now. im like similiar to an alcoholic i dont drink but i do est snd drink the wrong things. Maybe after my bloods cone back snd it eill be high as my readings snd ketones on the dip stick are high. i guess Im reaching out here to s those thst are brilliant at it. im happy and proud of you . i am just struggling .
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How high are your BG levels and ketones?
And what are you testing ketones with and are the strips in date and used within 6 weeks of opening the pot if ketostix?
 
Bmmols are no lower than 15.9 in the morning and fluctuate but never higher than 27 during the day . That is with accu strip pin prick test. urine is one step 10 which is always on last colour and usually i dont get any ketone reading so not taken in aged. These are new i checked and it was high. The only symtom i have is headaches and was a bit thirsty so my friend got me to do the urine test as she said if blood is high i should check ketones. costly but looking on the good side if i had DKa Id be ill, losing weight ,sick etc etc .But I am okay. I put it more down to this bad weather. I am not anxious re diabetes I just need motivated to diet lose the weight and get bmmols below 10. i was doing that but as i could not get the low snd the weight loss I wanted it was a waste of quality of life for me .
i cant afford to cook a meal for me snd a different one for him.When I go out i hate to feel or say i cant have this or that. im depressed with it. Anyways thank you all for help its appreciated.
 
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Nayshiftin said:
Bmmols are no lower than 15.9 in the morning snd gluctuste but never higher than 27 during the day . Thats with accu strip pin prick test. urine is one step 10 which is always on last colour and usually i dont get any ketone reading so these are new i checked was it was high. The only symtom i have is headaches and was a bit thirsty so my friend got me to do the urine test as she ssud if blood is high i should check ketones. costly but looking on the good side if i had DKa Id be ill, losing weight ,sick etc etc . i put it more down to this bad weather. i am not snxious re diabetes i just need motivated to diet lise weight snd get bmmold below 10. i was dping that bit as i could not get the low snd the weight liss it wad a waste of quality of life for me .
i cant afford to cook a meal for me s different one got him. go out cant have this or that. im depressed with it. Anyways thank you all for help
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I'm sorry to say this but I think you should be anxious about blood glucose levels as high as yours. It is not good to be so high it will be putting enormous stress on all your organs including your brain.
I would cook meals suitable for you and if your other half doesn't like it, tough, you need to think of yourself, and if he objects then ask him if he wants to be your carer because you will likely suffer the consequences of long term high blood glucose.
I cook the same meals for both of us following a low carb with no complaints.
 
Although her post sounds a bit harsh, I agree with @Leadinglights. This is about your health more than catering for your husband and those levels are dangerously high over the long term.

I have no idea what the ketone strips you are using are, but it sounds like they may be testing multiple things (and may be more expensive as a result) and perhaps less accurately. Ketostix only test for Ketones and are about £5 per pot of 50. I would recommend you get some of those. If you are not following a low carb diet and you are getting ketone readings then you need to seek urgent medical attention. Ketones can seriously damage your organs and ultimately kill you, so ask the nurse to check for them when you have your appointment since your review is coming up. You really need to push for more support and if necessary ask for some insulin if you can't manage to make the necessary dietary changes, because you really are putting yourself at significant risk continuing with levels that high and you often can't reverse any damage by the time it becomes obvious. Please make a fuss to get some help to bring those numbers down.
 
Leadinglights said:
My understanding is that people become insulin resistant because their body is producing too much insulin in response to a high carbohydrate diet.
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They're not sure exactly what causes IR, but it's linked to genetics, excess weight and lack of exercise. High insulin levels are caused by insulin resistance. I believe some research has shown that low carb diet can actually increase insulin resistance.
 
Nayshiftin said:
Bmmols are no lower than 15.9 in the morning and fluctuate but never higher than 27 during the day . That is with accu strip pin prick test. urine is one step 10 which is always on last colour and usually i dont get any ketone reading so not taken in aged. These are new i checked and it was high. The only symtom i have is headaches and was a bit thirsty so my friend got me to do the urine test as she said if blood is high i should check ketones. costly but looking on the good side if i had DKa Id be ill, losing weight ,sick etc etc .But I am okay. I put it more down to this bad weather. I am not anxious re diabetes I just need motivated to diet lose the weight and get bmmols below 10. i was doing that but as i could not get the low snd the weight loss I wanted it was a waste of quality of life for me .
i cant afford to cook a meal for me snd a different one for him.When I go out i hate to feel or say i cant have this or that. im depressed with it. Anyways thank you all for help its appreciated.
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Those levels are high, I agree with other comments here. Being so high is not healthy, and fasting levels of 15 are not good at all.

When I was diagnosed and changed my diet my wife just changed to eat the same as me, but she adds portions of things like potatoes (And as a result she lost weight as well!) to our meals of meat/fish and vegetables. If he won't change, make him cook his own meals and concentrate on your own health.

Eating out can be a nuisance, but in 2021 when I was diagnosed I was suffering so much I don't want to go back to feeling like that... that's incentive to stick to something that I know I can eat.
 
It may have sounded a bit harsh and I apologise for that but I saw at first hand the damage that can occur, when my OH was in hospital for two weeks there were 5 other patients in his ward all with various complications of diabetes from amputations, severe infections, needing heart surgery, it shocked me.
 
Leadinglights said:
It may have sounded a bit harsh and I apologise for that but I saw at first hand the damage that can occur, when my OH was in hospital for two weeks there were 5 other patients in his ward all with various complications of diabetes from amputations, severe infections, needing heart surgery, it shocked me.
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No dont apologise. You are all passionate about it for a reason. You must think i am a fool. But if i could lose weight I would . i know they'll find out on Tuesday but all I’ll get is weight weight weight and if they do i can see me walking out. They are so nasty . I tried hard and got it fine they ptescribed meds id rather die than be on. Yes its just upset tummy sickness bloatedness and headached but youll live . I dont want too . insulin if resistant will not help so all thats left is diet. However coffee and cream for bfast nowt got lunch and an omelette n salad dont suit ne. i dont like meat and most things have carbs. I use You as in the plural not anyone in mind . Im too scared off going Tuesday but I dont know . 25 i was told was okay of not on medication . So its going that way but ive slways had s madsive sugar dump in the morning . i so wish this eould go away. Thank you all for caring .
 
Insulin will help but your doses will need to be slowly increased to overcome whatever insulin resistance you have. Exercise also helps with reducing insulin resistance and feeling mentally better, so do try to fit a bit of that in each day. It can make a massive difference but you need to find something you enjoy. Weren't you doing Nordic Walking at one point?
 
Nayshiftin said:
No dont apologise. You are all passionate about it for a reason. You must think i am a fool. But if i could lose weight I would . i know they'll find out on Tuesday but all I’ll get is weight weight weight and if they do i can see me walking out. They are so nasty . I tried hard and got it fine they ptescribed meds id rather die than be on. Yes its just upset tummy sickness bloatedness and headached but youll live . I dont want too . insulin if resistant will not help so all thats left is diet. However coffee and cream for bfast nowt got lunch and an omelette n salad dont suit ne. i dont like meat and most things have carbs. I use You as in the plural not anyone in mind . Im too scared off going Tuesday but I dont know . 25 i was told was okay of not on medication . So its going that way but ive slways had s madsive sugar dump in the morning . i so wish this eould go away. Thank you all for caring .
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I appreciate that you don't want to be on any oral medication but that really means you are going to be reliant on dietary measures. If you are getting blood glucose readings of between 15 and 27mmol/l then it is likely that your Hba1C is going to be at a level that your doctor would be regarded as negligent if they did not recommend medication. Of course it is up to you I suppose whether you take them but the danger then is you do not receive the help you need.
There are plenty of low carb vegetarian recipes, check this link for some ideas. https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/collection/low-carb-vegetarian-recipes

I emphasise that id your blood glucose is as high as 27mmol/l and you have ketones when you test with your urine Ketosticks then you do need medical attention.
 
harbottle said:
Don't know - ketones are produced when the body needs energy and everyone creates a small amount when fasting or during exercise as the liver produces them from fats. If blood sugar is going very high it means the body can't get energy from glucose so it produces ketones as an energy source, but too much is bad and leads to diabetic ketosis (I think.) but things have to be very very wrong for that to happen, and mainly in type 1s who produce very little/no insulin.

Many T2s have high 'fasting' levels because their metabolism can't deal with the 'basal' glucose generated by the liver (And it's actually generating quite a bit every hour) so levels rise. I believe the liver doesn't stop producing it when it should as well. This is because the liver becomes 'insulin resistant' and doesn't respond to rising levels of insulin properly.
Click to expand...
Thank you
 
harbottle said:
They're not sure exactly what causes IR, but it's linked to genetics, excess weight and lack of exercise. High insulin levels are caused by insulin resistance. I believe some research has shown that low carb diet can actually increase insulin resistance.
Click to expand...
I'm not following high insulin levels would mean low blood sugar wiuld they not.
i an not a fan as will be crying-with hunger on los carb. However i will try but if your not s fan if meat. Veg and carbs soon add up to a low carb diet. i hot very depressed on it last time. I think it must eventually gove some s high. My pennies worth is if fat people are the cause of IR then ehy are skinnies getting type 2 too? I really think Gps nurses wave the obesity flag because thry hzvd no real cure Who knows low csrb might have s long term side effect. Conversely so many have got real benefit from it. Also weight loss too.
 
rebrascora said:
Insulin will help but your doses will need to be slowly increased to overcome whatever insulin resistance you have. Exercise also helps with reducing insulin resistance and feeling mentally better, so do try to fit a bit of that in each day. It can make a massive difference but you need to find something you enjoy. Weren't you doing Nordic Walking at one point?
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I did but my arthritic hands mean i cannot grip the poles for long. My other knee and hip are getting worse too. My Notdic walking never really took off after hip revision op ie op after hip replacdment as was not right first time. Im slways pottering about but even driving is painful. i can’t sit for long or move for long so life is really moving around for comfort . I do chair exercises but ill never be fit.
 
Nayshiftin said:
I'm not following high insulin levels would mean low blood sugar wiuld they not.
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Not if the insulin isn't being used properly. It will be getting released in response to high blood sugar, but isn't bringing blood sugar down... the result is high blood sugar AND high levels of insulin.

There's also potentially the liver producing glucose when it doesn't need to, so that adds to elevated levels.
 
harbottle said:
Not if the insulin isn't being used properly. It will be getting released in response to high blood sugar, but isn't bringing blood sugar down... the result is high blood sugar AND high levels of insulin.

There's also potentially the liver producing glucose when it doesn't need to, so that adds to elevated levels.
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Do they test in the HBA1C test for insulin levels ? Today they took four different vials of blood so they will check most things for me .
 
Nayshiftin said:
Do they test in the HBA1C test for insulin levels ? Today they took four different vials of blood so they will check most things for me .
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No, hba1c is just a test for how much sugar has been in your blood over 3 months.

There are tests that can be done for insulin levels and insulin resistance, but they're not done.

There are also tests that look how much insulin is produced, but that isn't normally done either.
 
harbottle said:
No, hba1c is just a test for how much sugar has been in your blood over 3 months.

There are tests that can be done for insulin levels and insulin resistance, but they're not done.

There are also tests that look how much insulin is produced, but that isn't normally done either.
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Thank you .
 
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