Quite cheery news

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I wonder if they will track the success rate in the community and compare it to the study?
 
HSSS said:
I wonder if they will track the success rate in the community and compare it to the study?
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They're going to be missing a trick if they don't.
Then again, just one reversed diabetic is enough to make a difference?
 
HSSS said:
I wonder if they will track the success rate in the community and compare it to the study?
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Not sure, but I started as part of the initial 5000 Pilot - I presume I'm tracked (or at least part of the figures?!)

I'm 2 years in, still in Remission, and look forward to the next 3 years, to see if I'm still there (I WILL be!)
 
travellor said:
They're going to be missing a trick if they don't.
Then again, just one reversed diabetic is enough to make a difference?
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Without a doubt on both...
 
travellor said:
They're going to be missing a trick if they don't.
Then again, just one reversed diabetic is enough to make a difference?
Click to expand...
Morally I agree.

Not sure the nhs accountants would though as no doubt they’ll be spending a lot on these shakes etc and I think they’ll need greater savings than that.

I still hope that all drs give all the options available (including low carb) and don’t only offer this one. As is often said there is no one method that is suitable or successful for everyone and patients are supposed to make informed decisions about their treatment
 
HSSS said:
Morally I agree.

Not sure the nhs accountants would though as no doubt they’ll be spending a lot on these shakes etc and I think they’ll need greater savings than that.

I still hope that all drs give all the options available (including low carb) and don’t only offer this one. As is often said there is no one method that is suitable or successful for everyone and patients are supposed to make informed decisions about their treatment
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I'm sure no patient will be forced to under take any treatment.
 
Based on the (hopefully) good results they are going to see, I wonder if they will consider rolling out to more than 6 years from diagnosis?
I can understand why the limit is there now, as it has a proven track record with under 6 years.
 
HSSS said:
Morally I agree.

Not sure the nhs accountants would though as no doubt they’ll be spending a lot on these shakes etc and I think they’ll need greater savings than that.

I still hope that all drs give all the options available (including low carb) and don’t only offer this one. As is often said there is no one method that is suitable or successful for everyone and patients are supposed to make informed decisions about their treatment
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If this is a first line treatment, then it is likely those receiving prescriptions will be paying for them (unless exempt by age or other conditions). Prescription exemptions are only for those being prescribed medications for diabetes.
 
AndBreathe said:
If this is a first line treatment, then it is likely those receiving prescriptions will be paying for them (unless exempt by age or other conditions). Prescription exemptions are only for those being prescribed medications for diabetes.
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Erm, it's a prescribed treatment for diabetes.
It's free.

NHS England » NHS Type 2 Diabetes Path to Remission Programme

The NHS Type 2 Diabetes Path to Remission Programme is a joint initiative between NHS England and Diabetes UK available to eligible people in England. This programme provides a low calorie, total diet replacement treatment for people who are living with type 2 diabetes and obesity or overweight...
www.england.nhs.uk www.england.nhs.uk
 
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I think these wider roll outs will be very interesting, if tracked.

People on trials or research programmes are usually motivated and look forward to hearing/seeing their results and those of others on the programmes.

Medication compliance isn't too great, in general, and I can't imagine folks who have likely tried a million and one diets in the past being overly motivated to starve themselves (by their own perception).

Interestingly, I had an NIHR email today, where they are looking for folks diagnosed T2 in the last 4 years to trial a drug very similar to Mounjaro, which is similar, but not the same as Ozempic. I don't know how recruitment is going, but that's a weekly injection designed to lower blood glucose and facilitate weight loss.
 
travellor said:
Erm, it's a prescribed treatment for diabetes, as is metformin.
Or, you could insist on trying diet alone, in which case I guess maybe you could be paying a charge, but it would be for a months worth of shakes.
Either way, it's a winner.
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As is diet and exercise, but that doesn't give and exemption. From the NHS website: "....
  • diabetes mellitus, except where treatment is by diet alone.... "
 
AndBreathe said:
As is diet and exercise, but that doesn't give and exemption. From the NHS website: "....
  • diabetes mellitus, except where treatment is by diet alone.... "
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It's "not diet alone"
You are confusing the terminology.
It's not like "low carb" locking into a "diet" for life.
It's a prescription treatment as an intervention, to reverse diabetes, not to control the symptoms.
 
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AndBreathe said:
I think these wider roll outs will be very interesting, if tracked.

People on trials or research programmes are usually motivated and look forward to hearing/seeing their results and those of others on the programmes.

Medication compliance isn't too great, in general, and I can't imagine folks who have likely tried a million and one diets in the past being overly motivated to starve themselves (by their own perception).

Interestingly, I had an NIHR email today, where they are looking for folks diagnosed T2 in the last 4 years to trial a drug very similar to Mounjaro, which is similar, but not the same as Ozempic. I don't know how recruitment is going, but that's a weekly injection designed to lower blood glucose and facilitate weight loss.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, it's only a very few people that see cutting calories as "starvation".
But as you say, motivation varies.
Some can, some can't imagine it.
 
travellor said:
It's "not diet alone"
You are confusing the terminology.
It's not like "low carb" locking into a "diet" for life.
It's a prescription treatment as an intervention, to reverse diabetes, not to control the symptoms.
Click to expand...
But, it's a diet. It’s a very restricted diet.
 
travellor said:
Oddly enough, it's only a very few people that see cutting calories as "starvation".
But as you say, motivation varies.
Some can, some can't imagine it.
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There’s cutting a few calories and a meal replacement diet.

Maybe folks will love it.

if people reach their objective, and importantly, maintain it, then I couldn’t really care how they do it, but something for a set time leads, in my view, to a countdown mindset, which isn’t always helpful.
 
AndBreathe said:
There’s cutting a few calories and a meal replacement diet.

Maybe folks will love it.

if people reach their objective, and importantly, maintain it, then I couldn’t really care how they do it, but something for a set time leads, in my view, to a countdown mindset, which isn’t always helpful.
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Fortunately as you say, that's just your view.
And despite your protests, the NHS disagree, and they also recognise it again, despite your protests, as a course of treatment, which type 2 diabetics will be referred to free of charge, as is happening already.
As you say though, if people reach there objective, and if like me, that was to reverse diabetes and go back to an unrestricted diet of all food types, well and good, we agree there.
 
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travellor said:
I'm sure no patient will be forced to under take any treatment.
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That wasn’t my meaning. More that if you only get given one option it’s not exactly a choice. whereas if you are given the details of two then you get to make a real choice.
As can be seen from my earlier evidence (that’s neatly been ignored by those disputing it) weight loss achieved by any (safe) method should be endorsed which would mean low carb education should be provided as widely as this option and the patient get to choose with their dr what is best for them.
 
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travellor said:
It's "not diet alone"
You are confusing the terminology.
It's not like "low carb" locking into a "diet" for life.
It's a prescription treatment as an intervention, to reverse diabetes, not to control the symptoms.
Click to expand...
Ah but as can be seen by the results of the trial it’s not just the initial 12 weeks. It’s maintaining it as an ongoing job, forever. It’s not really that much difference to remission by low carb in that sense. Both fit the same definition of remission. Both take ongoing efforts of some sort.

When just 11 out of 149 (7%) highly motivated and well supported people managed to do so for 5 yrs it suggests it’s not as easy as you make it sound, nor as permanent. There is no magic wand. Whatever approach we take it has to be sustained in one way or another.
 
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