Quite cheery news

[Deleted member 21371]

I know of one local practise that does follow low carb.. whether the use the low carb prog I have no idea.. unfortunately mine refuses to adopt it and would rather have their patients suffer...
I'm hardly on the "steering committee" just a member of the PPG.

Yes, it seems no one, including me knows anyone that actually supports it?
If anyone on this forum could say different, and say it's prescribed on the NHS?

I would say you could ask the same question on the "red" forum......

 

[Dragonheart]

Yes, it seems no one, including me knows anyone that actually supports it?
If anyone on this forum could say different, and say it's prescribed on the NHS?

I would say you could ask the same question on the "red" forum......

NE London, SE London are two I found online in minutes. Plus quite a number of surgeries and individual nhs gp’s. The fact that the nhs have approved it means it’s officially supported whatever you think of it. The ADA and this organisation here also support it as a valid option. Huge numbers of people across the world have achieved remission with versions of low carb/keto too.

Being slow to adopt it doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. Look how long it took the medical professional,to admit smoking harmed people.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

NE London, SE London are two I found online in minutes. Plus quite a number of surgeries and individual nhs gp’s. The fact that the nhs have approved it means it’s officially supported whatever you think of it. The ADA and this organisation here also support it as a valid option. Huge numbers of people across the world have achieved remission with versions of low carb/keto too.

Being slow to adopt it doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. Look how long it took the medical professional,to admit smoking harmed people.

If you are pulling in "worldwide" opinion to prove the two you found in the UK........
Let's get back to "cheery news'

"Everyone manages their health differently. Please be mindful of this"

 

[Spathiphyllum]

I’m pretty certain they prescribe the shakes because it’s easier than prescribing miscellaneous foodstuffs; balancing quantities etc.

Yes, from what I've read, the NHS went for prescribing the shakes/soups because people on the diet find it much easier. People have enough to worry about. This way, they don't have to worry about what to eat, totting up the calories etc; just have the shake/soup.

And-- my understanding is that the soups/shakes are free. The poorer people are, the more likely they are to be obese and the more likely they are to have T2D; see for example https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/building-blocks-good-health . Especially if you're poor, the money saved, from three months of free total meal replacement, can make a real difference.

 

[Dragonheart]

"Everyone manages their health differently. Please be mindful of this"

Err what? Where does that false accusation come from? Re read my post, particularly the “as a valid option” bit.

Option meaning there are other things available too. Absolutely nothing I said suggests I’m not being mindful of managing health differently. I’m answering a question, asked by you, about a particular method. Are you trying to be provocative?

 

[Dragonheart]

If you are pulling in "worldwide" opinion to prove the two you found in the UK........
Let's get back to "cheery news'

You either didn’t look for places using it or likely don’t care. But you asked so I answered. All I claimed was I found 2 examples in less than a minute of looking for them. Not that that was all there are.

I showed it was supported IN THE UK as well as around the world. And even if support is from elsewhere as well as the uk don’t they have scientist, nutritionists, drs and people with diabetes elsewhere?

 

[AndBreathe]

Ah, but the NHS actually prescribe the Newcastle Diet.
Do you know any HCP that ever prescribed the access code for the Low Carb Program?
Do your practice do it, you will know as you are on the steering committee?

My practise hardly give access to their building, so I wouldn't hold much hope for the LCP, but there are CCGs supporting it.

 

[AndBreathe]

I got banned for not toeing the party line.
I don't need to go back there, way too fringe for me.

Being banned doesn't stop you searching on the site, or copying a link to useful information you might find.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

You either didn’t look for places using it or likely don’t care. But you asked so I answered. All I claimed was I found 2 examples in less than a minute of looking for them. Not that that was all there are.

I showed it was supported IN THE UK as well as around the world. And even if support is from elsewhere as well as the uk don’t they have scientist, nutritionists, drs and people with diabetes elsewhere?

The question was comparing the difference in the NHS actively prescribing a course of treatment.
Not if the world is supporting low carb

Looking online if doesn't even seem Dr Unwin's surgery actively pays for subscriptions to the low carb program on prescription.
The Newcastle is actively prescribed and paid for by the NHS.
The low carb program was dead in the water from day one.
I personally don't care either way, it's just a fact related to comments above.

 

[AndBreathe]

Yes, it seems no one, including me knows anyone that actually supports it?
If anyone on this forum could say different, and say it's prescribed on the NHS?

I would say you could ask the same question on the "red" forum......

You could just scroll to the bottom of this link and see some of the areas supporting it.

Low Carb Program - Sustainable Weight Loss and Blood Glucose Control

Low Carb Program is a digital solution for obesity, prediabetes, type 2 diabetes, NAFLD and PCOS that supports weight loss and blood glucose control.

www.lowcarbprogram.com

 

[AndBreathe]

The question was comparing the difference in the NHS actively prescribing a course of treatment.
Not if the world is supporting low carb

Looking online if doesn't even seem Dr Unwin's surgery actively pays for subscriptions to the low carb program on prescription.
The Newcastle is actively prescribed and paid for by the NHS.
The low carb program was dead in the water from day one.
I personally don't care either way, it's just a fact related to comments above.

Bearing in mind how long Dr Unwin's surgery has been actively, and successfully supporting LC, I imagine they have their own programme pretty much sorted by now. In those circumstances would they want to trade monies save by non/de-prescribing drugs on buying a programme they already have in-house.

Frankly. that would be bonkers.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

You could just scroll to the bottom of this link and see some of the areas supporting it.

Low Carb Program - Sustainable Weight Loss and Blood Glucose Control

Low Carb Program is a digital solution for obesity, prediabetes, type 2 diabetes, NAFLD and PCOS that supports weight loss and blood glucose control.

www.lowcarbprogram.com

Can you find the link for the postcode checker they mention?
I'm missing it somewhere.

edit - it's ok, every NHS mentioned on that page is to a "Clinical Commissioning Group"
These were being replaced by Integrated Care Systems since last year, so maybe none of them exist anymore to check on?

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Yes, from what I've read, the NHS went for prescribing the shakes/soups because people on the diet find it much easier. People have enough to worry about. This way, they don't have to worry about what to eat, totting up the calories etc; just have the shake/soup.

And-- my understanding is that the soups/shakes are free. The poorer people are, the more likely they are to be obese and the more likely they are to have T2D; see for example https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/building-blocks-good-health . Especially if you're poor, the money saved, from three months of free total meal replacement, can make a real difference.

Yes, it's free to the patient.
The good thing is now it's a supervised protocol, and the re-introduction of food is also monitored.
So bad habits shouldn't come back as easily.
Part of the shake basis is also it's a uniform treatment, much the same as the reason for Prof Taylor using the shakes, you can't really measure wrongly, or slip and start just guessing.

The cost could be an issue to some, but I found when I did it it was actually cheaper to live off shakes.
I had a detox in Jan/Feb after Christmas, even without offers, a tub of slimfast was £7, or 70p a meal, plus about 17p for the milk, so less than 90p a meal.

 

[AndBreathe]

Yes, it's free to the patient.
The good thing is now it's a supervised protocol, and the re-introduction of food is also monitored.
So bad habits shouldn't come back as easily.
Part of the shake basis is also it's a uniform treatment, much the same as the reason for Prof Taylor using the shakes, you can't really measure wrongly, or slip and start just guessing.

The cost could be an issue to some, but I found when I did it it was actually cheaper to live off shakes.
I had a detox in Jan/Feb after Christmas, even without offers, a tub of slimfast was £7, or 70p a meal, plus about 17p for the milk, so less than 90p a meal.

If this is being prescribed, who does the monitoring?

Bearing in mind, I had my only second ever filament test and first ever PAD related pulse checks yesterday (as a research project subject, not under primary care), since diagnosis in October 2013, I am sceptical about any primary care monitoring - even when there are fee to be won for complying.

As an aside, I am delighted to say that I show no signs of PAD at this stage. The related MRI will obviously be the real decision maker on that topic.

(Research looking to find the most effective means of diagnosing PAD, in primary care, in the first instance. Apparently, the PAD experienced by those living with diabetes of all sorts differs from those not living with diabetes.)

 

[Dragonheart]

Where is this soup and shake diet being offered at this point in time? Most of the articles talk about a trial in 21 areas, not everywhere. Has it expanded already or when will it?

 

[Spathiphyllum]

Where is this soup and shake diet being offered at this point in time? Most of the articles talk about a trial in 21 areas, not everywhere. Has it expanded already or when will it?

Both of those are very good questions-- and not nearly as easy to find answers to as they should be!

The list of areas where it is currently available seems to be here:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/treatment-care/low-calorie-diets/ .

I haven't yet found any specific information as to when it will be rolled out to more areas. In fact, as I kept searching and not finding, I began to wonder whether they had any intention of further roll-out or whether they had decided to hit the pause button, which would be a terrible shame! ... And then, happily, I found these:

https://www.sell2wales.gov.wales/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=SEP412101
https://www.contractsfinder.service.gov.uk/Notice/f44184ad-592c-4da3-8010-e2f229efee89

In September 2022, NHS England published a 'Prior Information Notice' saying they would soon be inviting tenders for contracts for providers to provide the NHS Low Calorie Diet Programme (the official name for the 'soup and shake diet') across the whole of England "to achieve full national coverage in 2023/24".

And then in November they published the invitation to tender, closing 22 December 2022, for "a Framework Agreement with up to 5 providers" with a view to contracts starting in February 2023 and ending in January 2025.

So-- it seems they do genuinely intend to expand the programme to the whole of England, and sometime this year or next.

For any Scots out there: NHS Scotland seems to be moving a little more slowly, and in a less privatised fashion, but in the same direction-- https://www.sell2wales.gov.wales/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=MAR430203 .

For any Welsh and Northern Irish out there: apologies, I haven't found anything! But would be interested if anyone else knows.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I don’t intentionally low carb, and the shake based intervention would make no difference to my chances of my diabetes going into remission, but I am still glad this option is being offered to more people. I’m also glad that a majority or newbies who arrive having just had that conversation say that they have been told to cut back on carbohydrates like bread, pasta, rice etc whether or not they are offered medication at diagnosis.

Options are good. Alternatives, and different strategies. Diffferent ones suiting different people.

Compared to the stories I heard when first frequenting forums a decade or more ago (inevitably progressive for everyone... base all your meals on starchy carbs…), things seem to have changes positively in a big way.

 

[Spathiphyllum]

Both of those are very good questions-- and not nearly as easy to find answers to as they should be!

The list of areas where it is currently available seems to be here:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/treatment-care/low-calorie-diets/ .

I haven't yet found any specific information as to when it will be rolled out to more areas. In fact, as I kept searching and not finding, I began to wonder whether they had any intention of further roll-out or whether they had decided to hit the pause button, which would be a terrible shame! ... And then, happily, I found these:

https://www.sell2wales.gov.wales/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=SEP412101
https://www.contractsfinder.service.gov.uk/Notice/f44184ad-592c-4da3-8010-e2f229efee89

In September 2022, NHS England published a 'Prior Information Notice' saying they would soon be inviting tenders for contracts for providers to provide the NHS Low Calorie Diet Programme (the official name for the 'soup and shake diet') across the whole of England "to achieve full national coverage in 2023/24".

And then in November they published the invitation to tender, closing 22 December 2022, for "a Framework Agreement with up to 5 providers" with a view to contracts starting in February 2023 and ending in January 2025.

So-- it seems they do genuinely intend to expand the programme to the whole of England, and sometime this year or next.

And now, today, confirmed! https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_u...iet-to-help-people-with-type-2-into-remission :

"An NHS 'soups and shakes' diet is being rolled out to more areas of the UK, with the potential to help thousands more people living with type 2 diabetes to go in to remission.

NHS England has announced plans to roll out its new ‘Type 2 Diabetes Path to Remission’ programme across the whole of England ... by March 2024."

 

[Deleted member 21371]

And now, today, confirmed! https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_u...iet-to-help-people-with-type-2-into-remission :

"An NHS 'soups and shakes' diet is being rolled out to more areas of the UK, with the potential to help thousands more people living with type 2 diabetes to go in to remission.

NHS England has announced plans to roll out its new ‘Type 2 Diabetes Path to Remission’ programme across the whole of England ... by March 2024."

I saw that, it's absolutely brilliant news!
It should capture the majority of people, it's a very low bar to entry.

• Aged 18 to 65 years
• Have been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes within the last 6 years. This is because the evidence shows that remission is more likely the closer you are to your diagnosis
• BMI of 27kg/m² or higher if you’re White, or 25kg/m² if you’re from an ethnic minority group
• Have had an HbA1c measurement taken within the last 12 months and the results were 43-87 mmol/mol, if on diabetes medication, or 48-87 mmol/mol, if not on diabetes medication.

 

[Spathiphyllum]

I saw that, it's absolutely brilliant news!
It should capture the majority of people, it's a very low bar to entry.

• Aged 18 to 65 years
• Have been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes within the last 6 years. This is because the evidence shows that remission is more likely the closer you are to your diagnosis
• BMI of 27kg/m² or higher if you’re White, or 25kg/m² if you’re from an ethnic minority group
• Have had an HbA1c measurement taken within the last 12 months and the results were 43-87 mmol/mol, if on diabetes medication, or 48-87 mmol/mol, if not on diabetes medication.

Yes indeed, it's great news!

Now the main thing will be to make sure that all GPs are aware of it, and to encourage them to ensure all eligible patients are aware of it.