No Carbers/ low Carbers

[Vanessa]

Ceara

I tend to use the calorie, fat and carb bible for figures and find that for me and the medication I'm on that about 140-150g carbs a day means I tend to keep fairly balanced although the carbs I eat tend to be low GI and mostly from fruit, vegetables, beans and wholegrains.

What really surprised me was the amount of carbs in most fruit - I used to eat a large banana as a snack and now find that 1/2 a small banana is about what my body can manage. The other thing that really surpised me was how intolerant my body is of carbs first thing in the morning when my insulin resistance seems to be at its worst

Jenny Ruhl's book is also a useful read if you want to know more about how to work out the impact of carbs on your body. Brand-Miller's "The New Glucose Revolution" is good for info on GI and glycaemic load - helped me work towards a better balance in my carb choices and to wean me away from a mentality that "carbs" = "starchy carbs"

 

[sweetsatin]

I am confused about all this diet thing, how many carbs are we suppose have throughout the day?
I have restricted my bread, only have 1 slice of brown granary a day or 1 brown roll a day, i love my Bananas as i have 1 a day too.
I love my rice & pasta dishes but never know what to eat each day, i'm sick of salads now so have them once or twice a week.
I know everyone is different as to the amount of what we eat.
I miss my chocolate
My DSN said cheese was a no no.
I don't like fish so what do i eat lol

 

[katie]

Ceara

I tend to use the calorie, fat and carb bible for figures and find that for me and the medication I'm on that about 140-150g carbs a day means I tend to keep fairly balanced although the carbs I eat tend to be low GI and mostly from fruit, vegetables, beans and wholegrains.

I ordered my calorie, fat and carb bible a few days ago

I shall report back to let everyone know how useful it is - especially you steff since you seem to be thinkning about getting a book 🙂

 

[Vanessa]

Sweetsatin, the amount of carb is one of those things that stirs much controversy and you do really have to look into it and make your own personal decision. Some such as Dodger will eat very little (I think he posted that he's down to about 100g per week). I've chosen to stick to the GI people (Brand-Miller et al - see other posts) recommendation of a minimum of 130g per day from all sources and that works for me. Diabetes UK diet would have you up at about 65% of your calorie intake which is far too much for me

 

[C*5_Dodger]

Low Carbohydrate Answers

Dear All,

Wow, I've been away less than 24 hours and Anne-Marie has started this. Below are my response to questions put in this post. If I've missed anything or you have more queries - let me know

Katie

Q. I would like to know what you guys eat instead of carbs. I know you've told me Anne, but C*5_Dodger what do you eat?? So you've replaced carbs by fat, what fat?

A. I eat lots of vegges mainly only those that grow above the ground, green leafy ones are very low carbohydrate Here's a page on which I posted a typical meal and yes after 2 hours my blood glucose was 6.0mmol/L. I find that portion control is important also. I also like protein – all meats and seafoods

http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=2288

With regard to the type of fat I eat the answer is any and all. Typical examples are: Cheese, butter, beef fat, pork fat, lamb fat, chicken fat, olive oil, oily fish etc. The important point here is that I believe that the notion that saturated fat is bad for me is utter nonsense. Throughout the 2 million years or so of our evolution our species has been eating animal fat, which has a high proportion of saturated fat, so that the idea that it is bad for us is crackers. Just as an aside: when you eat too much carbohydrate the liver converts the excess to fat – no prizes for guessing the type – yes its saturated fat!. The liver packages it up as triglyceride, loads it onto VLDL lippoproteins and ships it out for storage in your fat depots – predominately the the ones round your waist. This why people who eat “plenty of carbohydrates” may have high triglyceride (Tgs) blood test results – mine are very low 0.9mmol/L. The latest thinking now is that Tgs are a much stronger predictor of heart disease than high LDL.

Bev

Q: I thought that some proteins and fats have the same affect on your blood sugars hours later after eating them? Someone on the other forum took ages explaining to me in great detail how proteins can break down hours after being eaten and can cause a spike.

A: Here's a quote from Jenny Ruhl's book (page 69)
“...Now its time to face an important fact. Its the carbohydrates you eat that raise your blood sugar after meals. Sugars and starches. Nothing else. The fats you eat do not raise your blood sugar at all. Technically speaking, protein can raise your blood sugar because your liver is able to convert about 58% of the protein you eat to carbohydrate. But since it takes up to seven hours to digest dietary protein and turn it into glucose, the only people who see a rise in blood sugar after eating protein are those whose diabetes is so severe that they have no beta cell function left at all. So it is unlikely that eating protein will cause an observable rise in your blood sugar...” The important point here is that the process starts soon after you eat protein and is complete after about seven hours – so no glucose spike! For type 1s this low rate of input of glucose does not have to be factored into your carbohydrate calculations.

Ceara
Q: I'm interested in this low carb thing. Is there any specific listing available, like the GI or GL lists, or do you just avoid high carb food?

A: If you have a spreadsheet App, e.g. Excel, I can supply you with a large amount of information – you also may find the book that Steff is considering buying useful. I would need a PM from you giving me your E-Mail address. However, going low/controlled carbohydrate is not a “one size fits all approach” - we each need to tailor our diet in such a way as to meet the blood sugar targets we have set ourselves, since we are all different. It is for this reason that it is essential to test, test and test or a Jenny would say “eat to your meter”. The details of how to do this set set out in her book. The amount of carbohydrates you can tolerate depends upon how far you are along the path to complete beta-cell failure. A newly diagnosed type 2 for example may eat quite large amounts of carbohydrate and still meet the BS targets. Here's the targets from DUK, my 2 hours after meals target is much lower than these. It is now widely believed that we should get as close to normal (A1cs 4% to 5%) as possible in order to reduce the risk of future complications

Children with Type 1 diabetes (NICE 2004)
Before meals: 4-8mmols/L
Two*hours after meals: less than 10mmols/L

Adults with Type 1 diabetes (NICE 2004)
Before meals: 4- 7mmols/L
2 hours after meals: less than 9mmols/L

Type 2 diabetes (NICE 2008)
Before meals: 4-7mmol/L
Two*hours after meals: less than 8.5mmols/L

Regards Dodger

 

[insulinaddict09]

Hi Dodger , I've just read your post and found it facinating !!!!! I do strongly

Believe that Carbs have been my downfall with regard to my blood sugar

control . When first diagnosed I was able to eat Carbs at every meal as I was

told to do by my DSN arghhhh !!!! And managed to keep stable ish bloods with

Large doses of Insulin , after a short while [ under 12mths] I noticed that

even with a large dose of Insulin my glucose levels would zoom sky high and I

was having to correct several time to get down to anywhere near a resonable

level. Since going Low Carb I havent looked back , my control is better , I

have felt better , more energy and less hungry. Ive found that Carbs make

me hungry , they do not fill me up , quite the opposite.

 

[C*5_Dodger]

Hi Dodger , I've just read your post and found it facinating !!!!! I do strongly

Believe that Carbs have been my downfall with regard to my blood sugar

control . When first diagnosed I was able to eat Carbs at every meal as I was

told to do by my DSN arghhhh !!!! And managed to keep stable ish bloods with

Large doses of Insulin , after a short while [ under 12mths] I noticed that

even with a large dose of Insulin my glucose levels would zoom sky high and I

was having to correct several time to get down to anywhere near a resonable

level. Since going Low Carb I havent looked back , my control is better , I

have felt better , more energy and less hungry. Ive found that Carbs make

me hungry , they do not fill me up , quite the opposite.

Dear Anne-Marie,

It really is good to read that you have found low/controlled carbohydrate usage helpful. I know of only one other person that uses this approach (Admin). It was great that you started this thread. One thing that I never mentioned is that I chose this way of eating to control my blood sugar, but it also has the "side effect" of helping people who need to lose weight. However, I won't hold my breath waiting for someone to adopt this approach in order to lose weight. The beauty of it is you don't have to starve yourself and you don't count calories (ug - I hate that word but that's another story)

Regards Dodger

 

[insulinaddict09]

Dear Anne-Marie,

It really is good to read that you have found low/controlled carbohydrate usage helpful. I know of only one other person that uses this approach (Admin). It was great that you started this thread. One thing that I never mentioned is that I chose this way of eating to control my blood sugar, but it also has the "side effect" of helping people who need to lose weight. However, I won't hold my breath waiting for someone to adopt this approach in order to lose weight. The beauty of it is you don't have to starve yourself and you don't count calories (ug - I hate that word but that's another story)

Regards Dodger

Well I have never been over weight if anything under weight , I did put on

quite a lot of weight after going on Insulin , I was feeding my Insulin and

filling up on Carbs as I was told to do. Consequently went from a tiny size 4

to a size 10 which does not sound big but it is when you have always been

quite tiny and I am also only 5'4 so hardly a giant. Since restricting my Carbs

I have lost a lot of weight am I am now in a size 8 and under 8 stone , I have

lost weight without trying and feel better for it . Also as a type 1 I have

found that my Insulin needs have halved if not more which surely in the

bigger scheme of things is better. If anyone has any quetions / debate or

just an opinion I would love to hear it ... I know this is a sensitive subject

and there are fors and againsts but this is a forum and any input in valued

even if it is not my own opinion .

 

[rubymurry]

I have just been reading this message regarding low carb diet. and I am intriged. Maybe that is the answer to many problems. Any suggestions as to the best way forward regarding this regime? I am really interested in the theory that it helps BGs!!!!

 

[insulinaddict09]

I have just been reading this message regarding low carb diet. and I am intriged. Maybe that is the answer to many problems. Any suggestions as to the best way forward regarding this regime? I am really interested in the theory that it helps BGs!!!!

Hi I will help you as much as I possibly can , Dodger is also a Low/ No Carber

who has been doing this with fantastic results , I'm sure he would aslo be

willing to help and advise you .

Best wishes Anne-Marie

if you let me know what you want to know I will do my best to help.

 

[C*5_Dodger]

I have just been reading this message regarding low carb diet. and I am intriged. Maybe that is the answer to many problems. Any suggestions as to the best way forward regarding this regime? I am really interested in the theory that it helps BGs!!!!

Dear rubymurry,

As inulinaddict (Anne-Marie) has said we will ofcourse help in any way we can. You appreciate that we cannot give you dietary advice (I have already been "wire brushed" for inadvertantly doing that!). However, we can talk about the science and leave you to draw your own conclusions - indeed some of my forgoing posts touch on the science. However, please consider this:

1. All digestable (i.e. excluding fibre) carbohydrates are changed to glucose, or in the case of table sugar (sucrose), glucose and fructose (fruit sugar) - fruits are also different. For now, I'll stick to glucose because fructose poses issues that are a little different.

2. The rate at which glucose enters the blood stream depends on the GI (glaecemic index) of the food, but rest assured that given enough time the vast majority of carbohydrate finishes up in your blood. Ofcourse the slower the take-up the better for BS control, but in addition one should not eat more than the body requires. This why portion control is important.

3. The advantage of the low/controlled carbohydrate approach is that it bypasses all these considerations, and gives better drug free control, because (here I go again!) If you don't put glucose into your body - how can you have high blood sugars. The "establishment" will tell you that you need a certain amount of carbohydrate (about 130gms a day). This is not so, the amount that you must have is zero! There are primitive peoples that eat no carbohydrates and are very healthy.

4. How do you go about "doing low carb". Well I always point people in the direction of Jenny Ruhl's book (see books thread) because she rightly says that the diet you use must be crafted by you - because we are all different. Her book explains how you go about this. The thing that you will notice is that your BG meter is central to the success of the approach - she coined the phrase "eat to your meter"

Regards Dodger

 

[insulinaddict09]

Morning Dodger , thanks for the book tip , I think I will buy a copy , its sounds

like the book I need and will help me no end . 🙂

 

[C*5_Dodger]

Morning Dodger , thanks for the book tip , I think I will buy a copy , its sounds

like the book I need and will help me no end . 🙂

Dear Anne-Marie,

Be a little wary, Jenny is a type 2 and her book is maily aimed at them. I will have a look and see if I think you are wasting your money, only problem is, after today I will be on holiday for three weeks and not have access to the internet.

Warmest Regards Dodger

 

[insulinaddict09]

Dear Anne-Marie,

Be a little wary, Jenny is a type 2 and her book is maily aimed at them. I will have a look and see if I think you are wasting your money, only problem is, after today I will be on holiday for three weeks and not have access to the internet.

Warmest Regards Dodger

Oh ok thanks for that , I may try the library first then , before buying .

I hope you have a lovely holiday 🙂🙂

See you when you get back I'm sure it will then take you three weeks to go

through all our questions for you 😱

 

[C*5_Dodger]

Oh ok thanks for that , I may try the library first then , before buying .

I hope you have a lovely holiday 🙂🙂

See you when you get back I'm sure it will then take you three weeks to go

through all our questions for you 😱

Dear Anne-Marie,

I just looked at it, using the index to locate references to "type 1". Your idea of using the library is good, because it is a good read. However, it is not a great benefit for type 1s.

Warmest Regards Dodger

 

[insulinaddict09]

Dear Anne-Marie,

I just looked at it, using the index to locate references to "type 1". Your idea of using the library is good, because it is a good read. However, it is not a great benefit for type 1s.

Warmest Regards Dodger

Thanks Dodger , I think I would still like to read it anyway , it is an interesting subject even if most of it is unsuitable for type 1.

thanks again ,x best wishes Anne-Marie .

 

[Northerner]

Dear Anne-Marie,

Be a little wary, Jenny is a type 2 and her book is maily aimed at them. I will have a look and see if I think you are wasting your money, only problem is, after today I will be on holiday for three weeks and not have access to the internet.

Warmest Regards Dodger

Hey Dodger, thanks for all your valuable input on this topic - I hope you have a great holiday!🙂

 

[insulinaddict09]

Hey Dodger, thanks for all your valuable input on this topic - I hope you have a great holiday!🙂

PHEW , I thought I was getting told off then when I saw you in the thread.

Dodger did mention being wirebrushed before , just how much advice with

regard to Low/ No carbing am I allowed to say out of interest Northerner ?

 

[Northerner]

PHEW , I thought I was getting told off then when I saw you in the thread.

Dodger did mention being wirebrushed before , just how much advice with

regard to Low/ No carbing am I allowed to say out of interest Northerner ?

It's really not a problem anne-marie. I think what dodger referred to was the impact one of his much earlier posts may have had on newly-diagnosed and Type 1 members (can't remember offhand, it wasn't me who yellow-carded him!) Forgive me Dodger, if I'm maligning you! Low-carbing can be a contentious issue and not suitable for all, so you need to be careful about telling people (who are probably already confused and distressed at their diagnosis) that the advice from their doctor is incorrect - it can be very upsetting to hear. A discussion where people put their viewpoint and relate their own experiences, on the other hand, is tremendously useful in broadening people's education about the condition and possibly giving them other options they were previously unaware of because it's not 'official' policy of NHS and DUK.

 

[insulinaddict09]

It's really not a problem anne-marie. I think what dodger referred to was the impact one of his much earlier posts may have had on newly-diagnosed and Type 1 members (can't remember offhand, it wasn't me who yellow-carded him!) Forgive me Dodger, if I'm maligning you! Low-carbing can be a contentious issue and not suitable for all, so you need to be careful about telling people (who are probably already confused and distressed at their diagnosis) that the advice from their doctor is incorrect - it can be very upsetting to hear. A discussion where people put their viewpoint and relate their own experiences, on the other hand, is tremendously useful in broadening people's education about the condition and possibly giving them other options they were previously unaware of because it's not 'official' policy of NHS and DUK.

Good thanks for that , it does clarify things for me . I do always make a point
of telling people that this is a personal choice of mine and is not suitable for everyone as we are all different . people need to make choices on their individual needs , and what works for me may not be a good dietary choice for them . thanks for not moderating me 😱