Minimed 780G who’s got one?

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So apart from the interesting suggestions of what else to spend my pension on, and comparisons between the costs of the system, ....

I urgently need to buy my new phone before my pump start training so can anyone answer these questions:
  • I never use a contract to buy my phones as I don’t use much data and don’t do big downloads etc so the contracts mean I am paying for a lot more than I need. How much data do I need to allow for the links to my phone? This is probably similar on any CGM system so any advice welcome (@everydayupsanddowns , @Stitch147 , @MrDaibetes ...)
  • Am I right in thinking that my phone only needs to be compatible with the pump, the sensor won’t matter. I don’t want to have to buy another phone if I change to the next sensors in the future.
Also if I don’t have my phone with me all the time, does the phone gather up the data from that gap when the pump and phone get back together again?
Here’s a link I’m sure you may have see for it


From what I have read the pump is working with Bluetooth so you phone with the app will be connected with the pump, as I understand it the communication is one way so the pump will inform the phone app with status info but you can’t control the pump from the phone.
I would think the sensor is only talking to the pump as I believe you would be using the guardian 3 sensors that I use and they only communicate with the pump.
 
Of course the total is an interesting study in affordability and efficiency

Eg
Assumptions
UK

Mean salary £28k
Modal salary £13.2k (IFS 2018)
UK 11% NI and say £1200pa vs mean gross salary =+4.3%
= 15.3 gross national mean salary
= 20% gross national modal salary

Germany
Mean salary €26k
Modal salary €20k
German salary shows less skew to extremes than the UK.

12%-20%? health insurance, call it 16% on av and €144 sensors
= 16.4 of gross natnl mean salary
=16.6% of gross natnl modal salary

Conc
Thus the German system is more expensive than the British for higher earners and less expensive than the British system for lower earners.
Your conclusion is pretty accurate, in Germany the more you earn the more you pay and the lower earners still get the same level of care but their monthly deductions are a lower percentage of their salary. Even though you pay your health insurance to a private company the government sets the rules they operate with regarding premiums. I pay are maximum percentage which is 13.3% at the moment also there is a threshold of €4200 per month where you don’t pay more insurance if you earn more than that.
 
Here’s a link I’m sure you may have see for it


From what I have read the pump is working with Bluetooth so you phone with the app will be connected with the pump, as I understand it the communication is one way so the pump will inform the phone app with status info but you can’t control the pump from the phone.
I would think the sensor is only talking to the pump as I believe you would be using the guardian 3 sensors that I use and they only communicate with the pump.
Thanks Paul.

I am getting my head round things step by step.
As I have to buy a new phone I want to make sure I don’t get that wrong.
 
@Paulbreen do you restart sensors with your 670 or just stick to the 7 day life of them.
 
I found out today, that the three of us being started on the 780 in a cou0ke of week’s time are the first ones in this area. So the DSN is learning with us too, which is fine as he is happy to have the endless questions from us and we are all helping each other.
 
@Paulbreen do you restart sensors with your 670 or just stick to the 7 day life of them.
I’m just using them for the 7Days at the moment as they are a bit temperamental and I don’t have a problem with supply of them as my insurance pays for them, I’m a bit of a software guy so I’ll eventually take a closer look at them out of curiosity.
look for a YouTube channel called Type one talks, the guy there can be a little hard to listen too but he is very much into sharing how to extend sensor life and stuff like that, I know he has his libre sensors working for a month now, I don’t recommend doing it but it can be done
 
I would say once the technology is proven, it’s early days, the powers than be will realise the benefits of closed loop treatment, I’m 85-95% in my target range since using the pump, the health benefit of that kind of result will save them millions on treating diabetic related illnesses
I hope you're right.
However as future benefit e.g. morbidity avoided, survival extended is discounted due to preference for spending now, but the cost is incurred before as well as during the benefit period, this will put a higher demand on size of beneficial effect in addition to tge high on going costs of treatment with fancy kit.

As fag packet calc
Eg for a 26 yr old living til 71 assuming 10 yrs reduction in life on average on mdi

On multiple daily injections
Fixed Costs =£200
(Pen injector x2 £100 = £200
Glycaemia testor £0 )

Recurrent Costs £ pa
Disposable needle tips. pa £50
Insulin detemir £42/1500U =365*20U/day*42/1500. =£204pa
Insulin humalog £30/1500U. = £146pa
Blood test strips 6 / day +365*£15/50. =£657pa
Glucagon 4 pa +£11.52/mg = £46pa
2A+E visits pa. 2x250. =£500pa
1 o/n hospitalisatn pa. £1600pa

Consultancy Fees
Diabetic + opthamology 6 mnthly. £1000pa
estimate- i dont what these really cost

Total per patient
One off. £200
Recurrent: £4203pa
Lifetime £ = £0.189M
Quality Adjusted Yrs =45* 0.60 = 27
Survival = 45 yrs

----
pump.no sensor


Fixed Costs =£3000
(Pump £3000
Glycaemia testor £0 )

Recurrent Costs £ pa
Plastics
Canula £9.80 each, 3 days dur=9.8×365/3= £1192pa
Reservoirs £2.90 each, 3 says dur = 2.9x365/3= £353pa

Insulin humalog 40U/ day £16/1000U = £234pa
Blood test strips 6 / day +365*£15/50= £657pa
Glucagon 2 pa +£11.52/mg = £23pa
2 paramed visits pa. 2x125 = £250pa
est.


Consultancy Fees
Diabetic + opthamology 6 mnthly est. £1000pa


Total
One off. £3000
Recurrent: £3709pa
Lifetime £ = . £0.188M
Quality Adjusted Yrs =50* 0.66 = 33
Survival = . . . 50yrs

---

AI System


Fixed Costs =£5500
(Pump £5500 est )

Recurrent Costs £ pa
Plastics
Canula £9.80 each, 3 days dur=9.8×365/3= £1192pa
Reservoirs £2.90 each, 3 says dur = 2.9x365/3= £353pa

Insulin humalog 40U/ day £16/1000U = £234pa
Sensor £1200pa
Glucagon 0.25 pa +£11.52/mg = £2.88pa
0.25 pa paramed visits pa. 0.25x125. =£31.25pa


Consultancy Fees
Diabetic + opthamology 12 mnthly est. £500pa
Total
One off. Est £5500
Recurrent: £3513pa
Lifetime £ = £0.199M
Quality Adjusted Yrs =55* 0.8 = 44
Survival = 55yrs



Summary. Cost QALY. Survival( life years)
MDI. £0.189M. . 27. 45
Pump. £0.188M. 33. 50
AI. £0.199M. 44. 55
Table: summary

Incremental
Cost. QALY. Life yrs
P vs M £1000, 6, 5
£/QALY. £167/ QALY
£/LY. £200/LY

A vs M £10000, 17, 10
£/QALY. £588/QALY
£/LY. £1000/LY

A vs P. £11000, 11. 5
£/QALY. £1000/QALY
£/LY. £2200/LY

Outcome Difference Table
Key: M=MDI, P= pump no sensor, A= AI

Interpretation

The lower the extra (incremental).cost/ QALY and cost/ Life year, the more cost-effective the new treatment ( left hand as opposed to right hand letters in the Outcome Difference Table) .

The above uses estimates of QALY and survival effects more than costs and accordingly is at best indicative, rather than a fair estimate. Furthermore additional costs of t1d associated morbidity have not been added.

However as worse control would be expected with non-AI regulated management of t1d,
non-AI treatment would have higher costs eg from more patients requiring laser surgery, haemidialysis and the same patients suffering lower qol + survival than treatment by AI, which make a still stronger case for use of AI. Accordingly this would lessen the extra cost of AI vs ither treatments and increase the effect gains attribute to ai above other treatments. Combined, inclusion of diabetes related morbidities would further increase the likelihood of ai funding if tge assumptions in the nominal estimate were met. So i think there's hope, contingent on trial results and manufacturers' costs.
 
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Re your phone I usally buy my phones unlocked, and I have a SIM only contract.
I do the same @grovesy .
I am not into downloading loads of stuff, so it works out a lot cheaper just to buy the phone and then I get the cheapest package which gives me plenty of calls, texts and data.
 
Just seeing if i can look up data usage.

EDIT:
OK so... I last reset my mobile data stats mid September, so approx 2 weeks after I started on the TSlim.

Since then the main Dexcom App says it has used 291MB, and 'Dexcom Clarity' (graphs, stats and analysis) says it has used 25.1MB

So for Dex it looks like maybe 100MB a month?
 
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I’m just using them for the 7Days at the moment as they are a bit temperamental and I don’t have a problem with supply of them as my insurance pays for them, I’m a bit of a software guy so I’ll eventually take a closer look at them out of curiosity.
look for a YouTube channel called Type one talks, the guy there can be a little hard to listen too but he is very much into sharing how to extend sensor life and stuff like that, I know he has his libre sensors working for a month now, I don’t recommend doing it but it can be done
Thanks Paul

I think I shall also start just using the sensors as marketed, and then once things settle I will consider the option of restarting.
 
Just seeing if i can look it up
Thanks Mike

I am not particularly tech savvy (as you know) and don’t want to make the mistake of getting one phone and then needing to update again. I thought I had bought one that was okay last time, as the Medtronic people were saying it was fine so long as your phone was no more than 5 years old. I think that they are very focused on iPhones so might end up going that way.

I have to have my new phone ready to link up for the pump start day, which I have realised is so that they can check we have set up our pumps correctly before we go live with it.
 
I found out today, that the three of us being started on the 780 in a cou0ke of week’s time are the first ones in this area. So the DSN is learning with us too, which is fine as he is happy to have the endless questions from us and we are all helping each other.
Good luck.

It'd interesting to find out things like pump and cgm costs for the 780.
 
For Medtronic sensor on phone, I trialled the Guardian Connect (standalone CGM with no link to pump) on my old iPhone.

There's a screengrab of the then-compatibility warning on my blog post from the time

Obviously that was a long time ago... And things have almost certainly changed by now.

I don't know if Guarduan Connect is what the future releases will use but this lists compatible devices and OS for that
 
So apart from the interesting suggestions of what else to spend my pension on, and comparisons between the costs of the system, ....

I urgently need to buy my new phone before my pump start training so can anyone answer these questions:
  • I never use a contract to buy my phones as I don’t use much data and don’t do big downloads etc so the contracts mean I am paying for a lot more than I need. How much data do I need to allow for the links to my phone? This is probably similar on any CGM system so any advice welcome (@everydayupsanddowns , @Stitch147 , @MrDaibetes ...)
  • Am I right in thinking that my phone only needs to be compatible with the pump, the sensor won’t matter. I don’t want to have to buy another phone if I change to the next sensors in the future.
Also if I don’t have my phone with me all the time, does the phone gather up the data from that gap when the pump and phone get back together again?
Hi SB

I dobt know the answers but if your data is non-pictorial, ie just numbers, it should be quite small.. Plusnet do a shed of data for £8 inc calls and texts.
 
I would say once the technology is proven, it’s early days, the powers than be will realise the benefits of closed loop treatment, I’m 85-95% in my target range since using the pump, the health benefit of that kind of result will save them millions on treating diabetic related illnesses
Thats very good and i bet your target is narrower than on mdi or pump no sensor
 
Hi SB

I dobt know the answers but if your data is non-pictorial, ie just numbers, it should be quite small.. Plusnet do a shed of data for £8 inc calls and texts.
And you can stop the contract without a tie in. 🙂
 
I hope you're right.
However as future benefit e.g. morbidity avoided, survival extended is discounted due to preference for spending now, but the cost is incurred before as well as during the benefit period, this will put a higher demand on size of beneficial effect in addition to tge high on going costs of treatment with fancy kit.

As fag packet calc
Eg for a 26 yr old living til 71 assuming 10 yrs reduction in life on average on mdi

On multiple daily injections
Fixed Costs =£200
(Pen injector x2 £100 = £200
Glycaemia testor £0 )

Recurrent Costs £ pa
Disposable needle tips pa £50
Insulin detemir £42/1500U =365*20U/day*42/1500 =£204pa
Insulin humalog £30/1500U = £146pa
Blood test strips 6 / day +365*£15/50=£657pa
Glucagon 4 pa +£11.52/mg = £46pa
2A+E visits pa. 2x250 =£500pa
1 o/n hospitalisatn pa £1600pa

Consultancy Fees
Diabetic + opthamology 6 mnthly £1000pa
estimate- i dont what these really cost

Total
One off. £200
Recurrent: £4203pa
Lifetime = £0.189M per patient
Quality Adjusted Yrs =45* 0.60 = 27
Survival = 45 yrs

----
pump.no sensor


Fixed Costs =£3000
(Pump £3000
Glycaemia testor £0 )

Recurrent Costs £ pa
Plastics
Canula £9.80 each, 3 days dur=9.8×365/3= £1192pa
Reservoirs £2.90 each, 3 says dur = 2.9x365/3= £353pa

Insulin humalog 40U/ day £16/1000U = £234pa
Blood test strips 6 / day +365*£15/50= £657pa
Glucagon 2 pa +£11.52/mg = £23pa
2 paramed visits pa. 2x125 =£250pa
est.


Consultancy Fees
Diabetic + opthamology 6 mnthly est. £1000pa


Total
One off. £3000
Recurrent: £3709pa
Lifetime = £0.188M per patient
Quality Adjusted Yrs =50* 0.66 = 33
Survival = 50yrs

---

AI System


Fixed Costs =£5500
(Pump £5500 est )

Recurrent Costs £ pa
Plastics
Canula £9.80 each, 3 days dur=9.8×365/3= £1192pa
Reservoirs £2.90 each, 3 says dur = 2.9x365/3= £353pa

Insulin humalog 40U/ day £16/1000U = £234pa
Sensor £1200pa
Glucagon 0.25 pa +£11.52/mg = £2.88pa
0.25 pa paramed visits pa. 0.25x125. =£31.25pa


Consultancy Fees
Diabetic + opthamology 12 mnthly est. £500pa
Total
One off. Est £5500
Recurrent: £3513pa
Lifetime = £0.199M per patient
Quality Adjusted Yrs =55* 0.8 = 44
Survival = 55yrs



Summary. Cost QALY. Survival( life years)
MDI. £0.189M. . 27. 45
Pump. £0.188M. 33. 50
AI. £0.199M. 44. 55


Incremental
Cost. QALY. Life yrs
pump vs mdi. £1000. 6. 5
£/QALY. £167/ QALY
£/LY. £200/LY
ai vs mdi. £10000. 17. 10
£/QALY. £588/QALY
£/LY. £1000/LY
ai vs pump. £11000. 11. 5
£/QALY. £1000/QALY
£/LY. £2200/LY

Interpretation

The lower the extra (incremental).cost/ QALY and cost/ Life year, the more cost-effective the new treatment.
The above uses estimates of effects more than cists and accordingly is at best indicative, rather than a fair estimate. Furthermore additional costs of morbidity have not be added. However as worse control would be expected with non-AI regulated management of t1d, non-AI treatment would have higher costs eg from more patients than ai requiring laser surgery, haemidialysis and the same patients suffer these additional illnesses would have lower QALYs and LYs than treatment by AI, which make a still stronger case for use of AI. So i think there's hope, contingent on trial results and manufacturers' costs.
I’m going have to sit and read all of that on my PC, it’s too much to take in on the phone lol but very interesting to see the budget costs laid out like that.
One thing to add to the calculation is the price the health services would pay compared to the market price, I’m pretty sure the equipment would be heavily discounted and even the drug companies loss leading the equipment just to sell their insulin’s.
The move towards closed loop systems has upset their world quite a lot where there is more or less monopolies controlling the insulin manufacturing and sales.
interesting times are ahead and for once it maybe the sufferers that will benefit after years of stagnation
 
So apart from the interesting suggestions of what else to spend my pension on, and comparisons between the costs of the system, ....

I urgently need to buy my new phone before my pump start training so can anyone answer these questions:
  • I never use a contract to buy my phones as I don’t use much data and don’t do big downloads etc so the contracts mean I am paying for a lot more than I need. How much data do I need to allow for the links to my phone? This is probably similar on any CGM system so any advice welcome (@everydayupsanddowns , @Stitch147 , @MrDaibetes ...)
  • Am I right in thinking that my phone only needs to be compatible with the pump, the sensor won’t matter. I don’t want to have to buy another phone if I change to the next sensors in the future.
Also if I don’t have my phone with me all the time, does the phone gather up the data from that gap when the pump and phone get back together again?
A good point
 
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