Libre 3 experience

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grovesy said:
It is vert strange as the pervious Libres were offered for sale,
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I would imagine it may be a production issue and they are trying to avoid the situation they had with the original Libre where they couldn't supply demand and wouldn't take on new customers until they had more manufacturing capacity.
 
rebrascora said:
I would imagine it may be a production issue and they are trying to avoid the situation they had with the original Libre where they couldn't supply demand and wouldn't take on new customers until they had more manufacturing capacity.
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I am skeptical that is the reason.
 
rebrascora said:
I would imagine it may be a production issue and they are trying to avoid the situation they had with the original Libre where they couldn't supply demand and wouldn't take on new customers until they had more manufacturing capacity.
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Or, they offered Libre 1 as an attempt to get use and attention with the hope that it would eventually get prescribed to some extent. And Libre 3 happened to come to the UK at the point where that's less of an issue (people want it and they know the NHS is going to prescribe it to some extent).

Or maybe it's a combination of factors. Maybe the people who normally update the shop are busy doing something else, and next quarter it'll be offering Libre 3. (I still suspect some NHS involvement. Maybe the NHS has a less good deal for Libre 3 for some reason and prefers that Abbott not sell it at the same price and has succeeded in persuading Abbott.)
 
The NHS possibly stopping diabetics from purchasing Libre3 does not sound very helpful.
 
Wow, what a load of speculation.
Maybe someone could ask Abbott next time they have a faulty Libre 2 to report rather than guessing?

It is unfortunate that that they announced a new product and then made it impossible to purchase but I find speculating has little value.
Thankfully, I am in no rush for Libre 3 so happy to wait for it to come out, as they say nowadays, IRL.
 
DaveAB said:
The NHS possibly stopping diabetics from purchasing Libre3 does not sound very helpful.
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I should emphasise I have nothing to support that suspicion. It's just as likely to be that they have lots of Libre 2 sensors and want to make sure people keep buying them.
 
Dexcom and Abbott have been suing and countersuing each other for patent infringement over the technology in their cgms - including technology in the Libre 3 - in the US, Germany and the UK.

Unless the parties reach a settlement beforehand, the UK litigation is scheduled to be decided at first instance only at some point in 2023/24.

Theoretically the UK litigation could be appealed all the way to the UK Supreme Court which would mean a final court decision in the UK won't take place til 2024/25. Perhaps.

Abbott applied last year to have the first instance UK patent litigation expedited. Having an expedited decision from the UK courts might have helped them with the litigation in Germany and the US (British legal judgements are highly regarded as persuasive abroad, and particularly in the field of intellectual property law). The application to expedited the UK proceedings unsuccessful.

The proceedings in Germany are important because all of Abbott's distribution to the UK for the products in dispute takes place out of its German distribution hub. Of course Abbott could move its distribution elsewhere but that will cost time and money and does not guarantee that Dexcom won't also issue proceedings wherever the distribution hub was moved to.

My understanding is for the time being Dexcom have said to our UK courts they won't inhibit distribution of products coming out of Abbott's German distribution hub to the UK.

If Abbott cannot settle the matter amicably with Dexcom or if they were to lose the litigation, they would be liable to pay Dexcom significant sums of money for every Abbott product sold containing Dexcom patented technology and they would have to account for every item sold as part of that process.

Indeed, if Abbott are found to have infringed Dexcom's patents (and Dexcom's patents aren't ajudged to be invalid) and Abbott cannot redesign their products so that they fall outside the scope of Dexcom's patents, an injunction would be granted by the courts which would forbid all future sales of relevant Abbott products containing Dexcom patented technology.

It is possible - only possible - that the ongoing litigation means Abbott have made a commercial decision not to make the Libre 3 available for sale to the public until the litigation has been concluded.

Of course if my suspicion is correct no one working within Abbott will discuss that with a member of the public. Ever.

Of course, I could be wrong, but it is something to keep in mind.
 
BadaBing said:
Indeed, if Abbott are found to have infringed Dexcom's patents ......... an injunction would be granted by the courts which would forbid all future sales of relevant Abbott products containing Dexcom patented technology.
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While a permanent injunction (at most as long as the patent(s) remain in force) is possible, I think it would be very unlikely in this situation. Patients need a degree of choice as not every medical device (or drug) is equally well tolerated by different patients, and a permanent injunction would affect that. We are not in an Apple/Android situation.

More likely would be a royalty payment to be paid to the patent proprietor at a rate determined by the Court if the parties cannot agree a rate between themselves. There would also be back payments for past infringements. A prudent alleged infringer will inevitably take this into account in setting his prices or promoting his product until the litigation is concluded.

Whether or not this impacts on Abbott's position on promoting Libre 3 at the moment is probably shrouded in the mists of corporate decision making, and most certainly would be regarded as commercially sensitive.
 
m1dnc said:
While a permanent injunction (at most as long as the patent(s) remain in force) is possible, I think it would be very unlikely in this situation. Patients need a degree of choice as not every medical device (or drug) is equally well tolerated by different patients, and a permanent injunction would affect that. We are not in an Apple/Android situation.

More likely would be a royalty payment to be paid to the patent proprietor at a rate determined by the Court if the parties cannot agree a rate between themselves. There would also be back payments for past infringements. A prudent alleged infringer will inevitably take this into account in setting his prices or promoting his product until the litigation is concluded.

Whether or not this impacts on Abbott's position on promoting Libre 3 at the moment is probably shrouded in the mists of corporate decision making, and most certainly would be regarded as commercially sensitive.
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I agree, a settlement of some sort is the most likely final outcome. Although if Dexcom's patents are found to be both valid and infringed, could the court do anything thing other than grant the inevitable injunction that Dexcom will have asked for in their claim form?

These two aren't the only players in the cgm/flashgm market.

The judgement issued concerning the application to expedite the UK patent litigation states both parties had cross licensed the use of their respective patents before hostilities broke out.
 
BadaBing said:
Although if Dexcom's patents are found to be both valid and infringed, could the court do anything thing other than grant the inevitable injunction that Dexcom will have asked for in their claim form?

The judgement issued concerning the application to expedite the UK patent litigation states both parties had cross licensed the use of their respective patents before hostilities broke out.
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It is not inevitable that the court would grant the injunction. Just because Dexcom asked for it (which would have been boilerplate language in the claim) doesn't mean they would get it. They probably asked for £1+B damages as well.

Interesting about the cross-licensing before hostilities broke out. I wonder what changed? Probably pointless to speculate.
 
m1dnc said:
It is not inevitable that the court would grant the injunction. Just because Dexcom asked for it (which would have been boilerplate language in the claim) doesn't mean they would get it. They probably asked for £1+B damages as well.

Interesting about the cross-licensing before hostilities broke out. I wonder what changed? Probably pointless to speculate.
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An injunction is always asked for. I've never known it be refused IF the patent in dispute is ajudged valid and infringed. The Patents Act says a patentee with a valid and infringed patent is entitled to an injunction as well as damages or an account of ptofits....unless the parties agree another course of action.

We may never know what made hostilities recommence (the expedited application judgement suggests there were hostilities prior to the cross licensing arrangement). I've assumed its to do with both parties wanting to increase market share, the launch of the Libre 3 and the imminent launch of Dexcom's G7. Invariably it will be about money.
 
helli said:
Maybe someone could ask Abbott next time they have a faulty Libre 2 to report rather than guessing?
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I did... they flatly refused to answer stating that they do not discuss commercial information with customers.

When I asked previously about UK release date for Libre2, I got the same answer, then about 2 weeks later, they became available via NHS. Around the same time, supplies via their website for self-funders like me dried up for both Libre1 and Libre2. I had to resort to "grey imports" from DE for a while till they got their supply chain and production for NHS sorted out.

As a result I switched to Dexcom for a while, but they are so pricey to self fund and I really like the size of the Libre.
 
So can you order a Libre 3 from the German site and get it sent here?
 
Paulbreen said:
Well after 3 months of use Bruce my alarms and vibrations are working both on the phone App and the Watch App, they did have a signal loss reconnect error reported but a new update fixed that on Monday this week. now if the signal loss happens just wait until the next comms exchange happens (5 minutes) and its fine again. Its a small device and logic would tell you to use the small PC that is called your phone to configure alarms and vibrations and not expect a relatively small and simple App to cover it when the phone is way more powerful, he should go back to the peeing on a strip of paper days and colour matching it to a scale to see where your Glucose is at lol
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Hi, I'm hoping you'll be able to answer a question for me. My son is currently using Libre 2 with iPhone and has now been offered Libre 3 - This is great and we were very excited. BUT I've heard the alarms can not be set to vibrate - they always make a sound. Being a teenager in class and sitting exams - this is very bad news. He needs the alarm to alert him of low glucose during the exam, but it can't be a noise because it would disturb all the other students. He is not allowed to just look at his phone all the time (cheating), but if he relies on how he is feeling he can go very low (2.5mmols!!). Is there a way on your iphone to make this vibrate only? My joy of getting the offer is starting to crumble. If I can't make this work we'll have to stick with L2 until after the exams.
 
Sam456 said:
Hi, I'm hoping you'll be able to answer a question for me. My son is currently using Libre 2 with iPhone and has now been offered Libre 3 - This is great and we were very excited. BUT I've heard the alarms can not be set to vibrate - they always make a sound. Being a teenager in class and sitting exams - this is very bad news. He needs the alarm to alert him of low glucose during the exam, but it can't be a noise because it would disturb all the other students. He is not allowed to just look at his phone all the time (cheating), but if he relies on how he is feeling he can go very low (2.5mmols!!). Is there a way on your iphone to make this vibrate only? My joy of getting the offer is starting to crumble. If I can't make this work we'll have to stick with L2 until after the exams.
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I was diagnosed many years after my last exam but I have read about people with Diabetes taking their exams in a separate room for reason such as the ones you mention. Not only could the alarm disturb others but it could also be disturbing if your son needs to give himself an injection because his levels are running too high or find his hypo treatment if his levels fall.
 
helli said:
I was diagnosed many years after my last exam but I have read about people with Diabetes taking their exams in a separate room for reason such as the ones you mention. Not only could the alarm disturb others but it could also be disturbing if your son needs to give himself an injection because his levels are running too high or find his hypo treatment if his levels fall.
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Hiya, yes - he is in a separate room already, but not on his own. We have made all of the access arrangements based on the Libre 2. It didn't occur to me that the L3 would lose functionality! We may just have to try it and see, but I'm worried about putting both apps on his phone - it may get confused? Will we be able to return to L2 if L3 doesn't work out? Exams are getting close, so don't want to mess anything up!
 
Sam456 said:
Hiya, yes - he is in a separate room already, but not on his own. We have made all of the access arrangements based on the Libre 2. It didn't occur to me that the L3 would lose functionality! We may just have to try it and see, but I'm worried about putting both apps on his phone - it may get confused? Will we be able to return to L2 if L3 doesn't work out? Exams are getting close, so don't want to mess anything up!
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To give a different perspective on this, speaking as a school exams officer if your son is in a small room because of the alarms then it wouldn’t make any difference if it was on vibrate or just with the volume low. Vibrate can be at least as loud as a beep. Just make sure you inform your school’s exam team and they will make any necessary adjustments I’m sure. Good luck with his exams and my only comment from years of dealing with students and from doing exams myself with type 1 is to remind him to check 45 minutes before the exam so that if he’s low he can treat it and fully recover before the exam.
 
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