So then the next question would be why around 80% (from what I read) of all type 2s are obese.
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How to "cure" type 2 diabetes without medication
- Thread starter Amity Island
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It's great news if true but it's worth re-iterating that he's having trouble getting the wider scientific community to accept his results.
It's easy to dismiss that but peer-review in science is there for a very good reason.
I think that is based on eating a certain amount of calories.
i.e. if you stick to 2000-2500 calories you'll become a certain weight within reason.
The problem is when you go over that weight by a few stone (which I have also done over the years), it's hard to know what that set weight is because eating 2000-2500 calories a day at 18 stone will probably keep you at 18 stone.
I got lucky with type 1 because I lost 5 stone and went underweight and by sticking to about 2500 calories a day, my weight now seems to have found a level where it doesn't go up much further on that intake. For me it seems to be around 12.5 to 13 stone but I'm keeping a close eye on it.
I've seen so much snake oil around diets that I'm just not willing to believe any of this stuff now (including anecdotal evidence) without seeing that the research has been widely accepted by science.
D
Deleted member 21371
Guest
We all make our choices.
We all find reasons to believe or disbelieve.
It's not up to others to convince you, and indeed, who is to say their science is even your science, or your view of how terminology affects you is theirs?
If you believe regaining weight could be catastrophic, both mentally and physically to you, you can't decide it would be for all the rest of us.
If you believe your psyche could be highly damaged if the disease returns and also the speed of which that disease returns, again that is just you you are sure of.
I can always become diabetic again, life has no guarantees, however, personally, I can cross that bridge when I come to it.
For now, I'm cured, it is no longer in my life.
"who is to say their science is even your science"?
I'm sorry but I genuinely have no idea what you mean by that.
And it's worth remembering that we are simply exchanging views and ideas here. Nobody is forcing anything on anyone.
D
Deleted member 21371
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Indeed, nobody is.
Thanks.
Professor Taylor does not mention 'cure' for diabetes 2 once in his book. He uses the word reversal.
He also says how difficult it is to reduce weight when we are surrounded by fast food outlets, processed food etc etc backed up by the huge money making companies who restrict any research to line their own pockets.
There were more than 1 million hospital admissions for obesity related treatments in the year leading up to the global pandemic.
The whole food system needs overhauling with education beginning in schools regarding diet and exercise which needs exploring. We did not eat or need the same constant food years ago and this has become normalised.
We are all different sizes with different metabolisms and dietary requirements and retraining our health is not going to be a one size fits all or easy.
But the evidence is there and our health is the most important focus if we can try to understand ourselves and get the right information we can make ourselves a bit better.
It has not been all our fault and lots of the blame has lain in science not being backed up by proper evidence from the 60's.
We are bearing the brunt of a misguided history of diet research by huge profit making companies who will be very reluctant to change.
So good luck to all you brave people who are trying so hard to restyle their health with diet and exercise. I think you are very courageous.
He also says how difficult it is to reduce weight when we are surrounded by fast food outlets, processed food etc etc backed up by the huge money making companies who restrict any research to line their own pockets.
There were more than 1 million hospital admissions for obesity related treatments in the year leading up to the global pandemic.
The whole food system needs overhauling with education beginning in schools regarding diet and exercise which needs exploring. We did not eat or need the same constant food years ago and this has become normalised.
We are all different sizes with different metabolisms and dietary requirements and retraining our health is not going to be a one size fits all or easy.
But the evidence is there and our health is the most important focus if we can try to understand ourselves and get the right information we can make ourselves a bit better.
It has not been all our fault and lots of the blame has lain in science not being backed up by proper evidence from the 60's.
We are bearing the brunt of a misguided history of diet research by huge profit making companies who will be very reluctant to change.
So good luck to all you brave people who are trying so hard to restyle their health with diet and exercise. I think you are very courageous.
Eddy Edson
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
??? The approach is endorsed by the NHS, the American Diabetes Association, maybe other bodies. Also by leading obesity/metabolism researchers such as Kevin Hall, Herman Pontzer, Stephen Guyenet off the top of my head. It's consistent with & an incremental extension to accepted metabolic science. The research has been published in major peer-reviewed journals.
It hasn't been universally adopted in clinical practice in the US and elsewhere as yet which is not surprising - it's new. Also, more cynically, it's not yet reimbursable in most health systems. Less cynically, there hasn't been time for long-term follow up (the 2 year update to DiRECT was published last year).
But the biggest issue, in my opinion: the treatment is really just weight loss, and there's no reaon to think it will have better long term success rates for maintaining substantial weight loss than other approaches. Eg: The two year DiRECT results showed weight regain rates(and consequent loss of remission) which seem quite consistent with eg the old gold-standard LOOK AHEAD study. IMO, it needs to be combined where needed with GLP-1 agonists or one of the newer appetite reduction drugs.
I've bought the book very interesting.Newly diagnosed and find his theory on being too fat for your body's threshold to be true. I'm a healthy BMI but I am about 2.5 stone heavier than I was in my 20s.
I am going to see the summer out working on my numbers and diet myself to gain new healthier habits then in sept I'm going to ask my doctor and go on this diet. I'm hoping it will allow me to get off meds and then follow a healthy diet and exercise to hopefully put off insulin and complications.
I am going to see the summer out working on my numbers and diet myself to gain new healthier habits then in sept I'm going to ask my doctor and go on this diet. I'm hoping it will allow me to get off meds and then follow a healthy diet and exercise to hopefully put off insulin and complications.
It's the rapid weight loss thays needed as that causes your body to draw on fat from the pancreas and liver for energy. This rejuvinates them both causing the diabetes to be in remission.it will of course come back if you go back to old habits and put weight back on. I think the rapid part it pretty crucial to how it works. The book explains it very well
Leadinglights
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
The problem is people regard going on a diet as something with a start and an end rather than a change in eating habits for life, so in a great majority of cases put all if not more of the weight they have lost back on again and so starts the cycle of yoyo dieting.
You hear people say don't weigh yourself more than once a week but if you keep your eye on the ball by weighing yourself everyday then you can pick up those bad eating or drinking choices more quickly. Alright everybody has day to day fluctuations but its the trend that matters.
We really should have a different word for the deliberate attempt to lose weight and what is consumption of food for daily survival.
You hear people say don't weigh yourself more than once a week but if you keep your eye on the ball by weighing yourself everyday then you can pick up those bad eating or drinking choices more quickly. Alright everybody has day to day fluctuations but its the trend that matters.
We really should have a different word for the deliberate attempt to lose weight and what is consumption of food for daily survival.
AndBreathe
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Jo, a few months after I was diagnosed, I encountered Professor Taylor's work. By the time I encountered it I had already achieved a non-diabetic A1c and a very trim weight.
I was interested in his views on his methodology, versus other means of weight loss. I have no idea if his views have shifted since, but at that time, his view was provided the individual had reversed back through their personal fat threshold, it mattered not a jot how they did it - either in terms of eating style or time frames. His views were imparted in an email responding to mine to him.
D
Deleted member 21371
Guest
That is true.
It does seem many people transfer their personal experiences of dieting onto this without researching the procedure.
The NHS provide a full back up after the initial eight weeks, but also, the lack of food for that period does seem to break the cycle.
As to weighing, that's a habit I got into when I was doing this, and I still do it now.
D
Deleted member 21371
Guest
The rapid weight loss was based on the research he initially did, after observing the diet of patients before bariatric surgery.
Although, as Andbreath has said, certainly any weight loss is beneficial if the patient is overweight.
{Professor Taylor is quite an interesting character, he encouraged anyone to contact him, and took time to reply personally to everyone. He built up quite a study of results after his initial study was published)
Slow weight loss has not yet been trialled though, my feeling when I did it was to stick to the original study, as I only got one chance.
It worked so the rapid weight loss theory hasn't been disproved by me anyway.
Possibly there is new information in his book, it sounds an interesting read, and the original study was a long time ago now.
Eddy Edson
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
That was certainly my takeaway from his papers & book (and also from comments by Mike Lean). I got to remission/reversal/whatever by grinding off half a kilo per week, mostly before I'd heard about the Newcastle approach.
He is saying himself that he's struggling to get widespread acceptance of his research. That's why I mentioned it.
Eddy Edson
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
From the piece:
Taylor decided to write the book because, even though most diabetes experts in the UK have now accepted that his rapid weight loss programme works, many doctors in Europe and the USA remain unconvinced. “It’s not easy to get new ideas accepted in medicine. So it will be a while before this gets into the textbooks and generations of doctors are taught about it.”
He's speaking about getting it into clinical practice. In the US at any rate, you don't get wide adoption of a new therapy without having the payers accrediting it for reimbursement, which takes a big effort to get it through evidence committees apart from anything else. If you dig into Taylor and Lean's papers, you'll see that some of the work is directed towards building the start of a health economics case for this.
D
Deleted member 21371
Guest
It's an interesting question.
I hope one day the study will be repeated with a slow loss.
Although if I remember you said you lost 10kg, so just 20 weeks to reverse your condition?
I'm currently dieting, (a bit more than 800 calories a day to be fair, and I've managed about 1kg a week.
Based on the fact I am probably "larger" than yourself, I will be burning more calories resting, causing a greater deficit.
So, I would expect to burn more fat than yourself, and so lose weight faster.
Possibly your weight loss was faster than you give it credit?
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