Hi

[AleGna68]

I think you should talk to your diabetes nurse about Low Carb if you’re taking Gliclazide. I eat ‘Low Carb’ and have done since I was diagnosed in 2021. I had been on Gliclazide and Metformin. I was lucky that my DB nurse enrolled me on a course with DiabetesUK I think it was. I got a good hand book and due to covid, the lessons were via zoom. The chap who ran the course, very knowledgeable, wasn’t happy with me being on low carb diet.
This is just my experience.

I eat ‘Low Carb’ not NO carbs but no rice, pasta, pastry, bread and potatoes are a problem too, I limit those a lot. I eat meat, fish, cheese… vege, fruit, berries a lot, Greek yogurt.

Looking at potatoes, the way they are cooked can either increase the glucose spike or lower it. Ie; if boiled may be less carb. Mash is higher carb and roast isn’t good either ‍♀️
I can recommend Carbs & Cals, Carb & Calorie counter book by Chris Cheyenne & Yellow Balolia supported by Diabetes UK and GI & GL counter Dr Winnie Chan. My go to books


I Lose enthusiasm and ideas

 

[saffron15]

Do read @CliffH post carefully when you feel ready to start absorbing the various advice you have received. You don't want to reduce BG too quickly as it can be a shock to a body that has got used to lots of sugar. I remember someone mentioning it can temporarily affect your eyesight. @rebrascora has given lots of useful advice. I am not medically trained and have never taken glicaside. Look it up on this site or the nhs site but it may be a poor option with a keto diet. If you think keto would be helpful try and speak to a dietician or doctor as they may want to change your meds. I'm on different medication but need a reasonable level of carbs c130.
Hope you eventually decide joining this forum was a good decision. I wish I wasn't type 2 but the benefit to me after a year is I'm fitter and slimmer and will be off to an aquafit class tonight.
I can see you are trying very hard and I'm sure things will improve.

 

[silver minion]

Hi @buffybeand welcome. I had very high blood sugars at diagnosis as well.as needing to pee frequently, urge incontinence also stopped me socialising as I needed to be close to a loo all the time. I really do appreciate how this affects you.
I am also on gliclazide. It took a few months for my readings to fall. I was getting readings in low twenties and high teens at first. They are much lower now but still rise if I feel unwell or the weather is very hhot The excessive thirst and need to constantly pee has gone.
The thought of giving up some of my favourite foods really upset me at first. The alternative of eyesight problems and other possible complications encouraged me to make the changes to my diet and exercise.
To finish on a more positive note. Do you like baked potatoes?
If so you can scoop out the centres and fill with ham and cheese or filling of choice then grill or airfry. They are tasty and satisfying.

 

[rebrascora]

Yes, absolutely do be very careful about going too low carb/keto whilst taking Gliclazide. You would need to test very closely and indeed in some respects, if you were to manage to go very low carb whilst taking Gliclazide without having hypos, it would suggest that your own insulin production is already severely compromised and you possibly need insulin therapy and indeed it may indeed be that you are not Type 2 but a late onset Type 1 like myself. This certainly happened to me as I was on max dose Metformin and Gliclazide and reduced my carbs down to just a little bit from dairy and veggies and a few berries and only just managed to get to the top end of the normal range.

Certainly very low carb is not recommended with Gliclazide or the Flozin meds.

I wonder if it might be helpful to ask about a C-peptide test to see how much insulin you are actually able to produce since you have reduced your carbs quite dramatically already and still seeing BG levels in the low teens.

 

[debs248]

I agree with @Inka about hunger and @rebrascora about low carb and Gliclazide - my experience has been very similar.

The peeing problem sounds rather like my Overactive Bladder which I've had for years before diabetes. Can you get a referral to a continence clinic/ service (ours is recently renamed "Community Bladder Service"), it shouldn't be something that restricts your life so severely.

My aunt rarely travelled as she was so embarrassed by her lack of bladder control but my mum uses absorbent pants and a commode and is able to get out and about as much as she wants. Regaining some confidence and freedom can only help with all aspects of life including diabetes management - stress can raise blood glucose levels.

Wishing you all the best with making small, gradual improvements to your diet. You don't have to fix everything all at once.

 

[Leadinglights]

Now you have cut down on your liquid intake then your issue does sound to be something like overactive or sensitive bladder which could be a sensitivity to caffeine if you drink a lot of tea, coffee, or caffeinated drinks.
I believe there is a medication that can help or it may be a physical problem so I agree with @debs248 that it would be worth asking for a referral, so do ask your GP.

 

[saunders417]

Thanks for the suggestions @CurlyWurly but I think I'd be bankrupt if I started eating those , absolutely ridiculously priced.

Seriously, what do people who previously ate lots of potatoes, bread and rice and who don't like veggies or salad do to bulk out their meals? I can't be the only person with T2 that doesn't eat "rabbit food", yet all the recipes I see are made up almost entirely of food items I don't like. I'm used to eating large meals, there's only so much padding out I can do with carrots and broccoli before I'll be sick of those too. I feel like I've been almost constantly hungry for days, but I struggle to get close to 130g of carbs, and feel like this is just not going to be remotely viable long term. And that's without any treats, or, heaven forbid, a beer or two.

Hi there,
I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes at aged 66 and like you I was shocked beyond belief!
I was put on insulin long acting once a day and fast acting 3 times a day.
I don’t know if anyone has suggested using a blood glucose monitor like Freestyle or Dexcom just to help you get things on track?
The data can be shared with your health provider and it certainly helped me get to grips with everything as you can monitor your blood sugar levels using the app on your phone.
They aren’t cheap Freeystyle is about £50 for two weeks, but they offer a free trial so if you get friends and family to sign up you can accumulate a few and give it a try.
I self funded for about 18months but it certainly turned my diagnosis around, luckily I’m now funded by the NHS.
I’ve also managed to not only reduce my doses of insulin but cut out my lunchtime dose of fast acting. I also use the Nutracheck app which gives you the exact amounts of carbs calories fats etc.
I knew nothing about diabetes and struggled for quite a while about what I could and couldn’t eat it just takes time to adjust but definitely try a monitor if you can, it’s turned things around for me.
Good luck to you!

 

[Buffybegood]

Thank you all for your understanding and support, it really is appreciated.

Wrt to my bladder issues, I think it's a bit of a case of one thing at a time. The physical symptoms do seem to be lessened, certainly in terms of frequency which is almost certainly due to the reduced fluid intake (down from about 6-7 litres a day to maybe 3.5-4 litres) and maybe even the urgency a little, but the confidence will take longer and I still much prefer not to go out unless I have to. Hopefully that will change, but it will take time. I've only really mentioned it as exercise isn't too much of an option atm.

I wonder if it might be helpful to ask about a C-peptide test to see how much insulin you are actually able to produce since you have reduced your carbs quite dramatically already and still seeing BG levels in the low teens.

Others have suggested that it will take time for the reduced carb intake and meds (Gliclazide) to take effect; I am finding it frustrating that my BS seems to be levelling out at a 7 day average fasting BS of 13.5-14 on about 200g of carbs a day which for the moment is about as low as I can go. I know it's still considerably more than the recommended guidelines, but it's significantly down on what I'm used to. I usually end up with a BS of 18-20 after my evening meal. It has only been 2 weeks since diagnosis, it just feels a whole lot longer .

Unfortunately the nurse who prescribed my meds is on holiday atm; she was concerned that I might go below 6 while she was off, but there seems slim chance of that so I wonder if she will change my meds when she gets back. Many of you seem to be on Metformin, sometimes with Gliclazide, so I wonder if that will be the next step, although I'll have to wait until the 25th (I think) until my next phone call from her.

 

[CurlyWurly]

I have no medical knowledge but I'd say keep on with what you're doing for a few weeks and see how things go. If you can't go out do you have a garden you can walk around or anything like that?

Also are you finding you're losing weight? I found it was a combo of diet which in turn caused me to lose weight that really brought my levels down.

 

[Buffybegood]

Also are you finding you're losing weight? I found it was a combo of diet which in turn caused me to lose weight that really brought my levels down.

Can't say that I've noticed any weight loss since I've been diagnosed, but I've probably lost some in the last 6 months; until I was weighed by the GP and the diabetes nurse I hadn't weighed myself in at least 3 years so I can't be too sure exactly what I might have lost and when. Was 74.8kg fully clothed when the nurse weighed me which is 11st 11lb, so taking a pair of jeans and polo shirt off that I'm not too far off what was always my ideal weight of about 11st 5lb although I've probably lost some muscle mass (and so am carrying a bit more fat) due to inactivity in the last couple of years.

Will try to dig out some scales tomorrow if I can, might be an idea to keep a check on things going forward.

I have no medical knowledge but I'd say keep on with what you're doing for a few weeks and see how things go.

Yeah, that's the plan, there's not much I can do anyway until my prescribing nurse (the group that includes my surgery has 2 diabetes nurses, but one is relatively new to the job and can't prescribe atm) is back off holiday on the 25th I think, which will be nearly 4 weeks since I was first diagnosed. By then hopefully my average BS will have fallen, or, if not, maybe she'll change my meds.

 

[Buffybegood]

Have you thought about making your own bread? You can also make the 90 second microwave bread, here's one example - https://gimmedelicious.com/90-second-keto-bread/ but you can google for others. I had some this morning with eggs and it's lovely.

Thanks again for this, I had my first attempt today 🙂 . Tasted more like a crumpet when I toasted it, but definitely very edible. I'll experiment a bit with timings, ratios and bowl/dish/tray but it's a great place to start.

 

[CurlyWurly]

Thanks again for this, I had my first attempt today 🙂 . Tasted more like a crumpet when I toasted it, but definitely very edible. I'll experiment a bit with timings, ratios and bowl/dish/tray but it's a great place to start.

No worries, there's quite a few versions around if you google 90 second keto bread. Unfortunately low carb is generally a bit more effort to make but supermarkets are slowly adding more products. I think it's only a matter of time until a supermarket brings out their own low carb range and more products are slowly coming out all the time. Ocado have the biggest range but they're a bit pricey generally.

 

[Buffybegood]

@CurlyWurly
I've made my second batch today (with olive oil instead of butter this time), although am waiting until the morning to try toasting it.

Having read around a bit, it seems that there was a very popular (among diabetics) bread that Waitrose used to stock, LivLife I think it was, but, it's unfortunately been discontinued. Waitrose blame the baker saying they've stopped making it, and the baker blames Waitrose saying they cancelled the contract to buy it.

With roughly 4m or so people in the UK having type 2 diabetes, surely one of the major supermarkets could turn a profit selling this stuff, most of the comments I read about it suggested it would always sell out. Given that Keto bread seems to be going for about £7 for a smallish loaf (and often delivery charges on top of that), it seems crazy that a bakery that was making a well sought after product couldn't make it pay retailing it through a national supermarket.

 

[CurlyWurly]

@CurlyWurly
I've made my second batch today (with olive oil instead of butter this time), although am waiting until the morning to try toasting it.

Having read around a bit, it seems that there was a very popular (among diabetics) bread that Waitrose used to stock, LivLife I think it was, but, it's unfortunately been discontinued. Waitrose blame the baker saying they've stopped making it, and the baker blames Waitrose saying they cancelled the contract to buy it.

With roughly 4m or so people in the UK having type 2 diabetes, surely one of the major supermarkets could turn a profit selling this stuff, most of the comments I read about it suggested it would always sell out. Given that Keto bread seems to be going for about £7 for a smallish loaf (and often delivery charges on top of that), it seems crazy that a bakery that was making a well sought after product couldn't make it pay retailing it through a national supermarket.

How was it?

I only got diagnosed as it was being phased out but the bread was decent and not too pricey - think it was £1.50-2 a loaf. Only annoying thing is that the slices were tiny but I think that's more because of the ingredients they use to make it don't expand like regular bread. It wasn't quite as good as regular bread but was fine toasted and I always had it with a topping anyway .

I think the 2 biggest changes we'll see over the next 5-10 years (hopefully earlier) will be better low carb stuff in supermarkets at normal prices and non invasive glucose monitors (ones where you don't have to prick). The market for both is massive and only going to get bigger.

Livlife was never marketed as low carb which might have been part of the issue, even if you're not diabetic most people could do with reducing the amount of carbs they consume. If one of the big players could come out with a loaf that's around 10 grams a slice and market it as lower carb then that would be a good start and you'd probably see others respond.

I would recommend Jasons Protein loaf, tastes really and is 12.9 grams per slice. There's also a Warburtons light (https://www.warburtons.co.uk/products/bread/danish/danish-white-400g/) which is 11.9 grams but the slices are pretty thin.

 

[Buffybegood]

How was it?

It was less like a crumpet than the first one; tbh it's probably not far off brown bread, but I'm used to soft white bread which it's really not too close to. I was so hungry I actually had it yesterday evening 😳 .

There seems to be little difference in most of the bread available; white is usually about 45g carb per 100g, wholemeal about 38g per 100g. Even that Warburtons Danish is the same (46.1); it's only 11.9g per slice because the slices are so small. It reminds me of when my mum used to diet and Nimble used to advertise a lot saying their bread had only half the calories of normal bread, yeah, because the slices were half the size . So most of the normal sized white are about 18g per slice, the wholemeal about 15.5g per slice.

The Jasons Protein loaf does stand out; only 22.2g per 100g, and only 13g per hefty 58g slice. They do look pretty thickly sliced, is there any reason they couldn't be sliced a bit more like normal medium sliced bread, as in the baker could produce a thinner sliced version? That could bring them down to about 10g per slice or even less which would be pretty decent really.

Just checked and the discontinued LivLife was only 12.3g per 100g, they really need to start making it again!

 

[rebrascora]

Carbs are relatively cheap so the bakers and supermarkets can both make a decent profit on regular bread. Once you start lowering the carb content it becomes more expensive to produce, the price goes up in the supermarket, the profit margins for the bakery and supermarket are tight and then it just takes a slight downturn in the economy to make people who are struggling financially, think twice about paying significantly more for a small loaf.

I mostly gave up on bread and to be honest I feel better for it. You learn how to manage without it after a while. It is usually social events where I don't have much choice where I will eat it to be polite or make life easier for others.

 

[Buffybegood]

I mostly gave up on bread and to be honest I feel better for it. You learn how to manage without it after a while. It is usually social events where I don't have much choice where I will eat it to be polite or make life easier for others.

I've cut down hugely, but am currently still having 2 slices of toast with scrambled eggs and sausage or bacon for breakfast or brunch. That's the only bread I'm eating atm, but as I'm struggling to get close to 130g a day (I'm usually closer to 200g) I'm looking to make savings where I can. I don't usually check my BS 2 hours after breakfast, but it was up from 13.3 to 21.9 today; really doesn't feel as though I'm making much progress even though I've cut down significantly on my carb intake.

 

[Leadinglights]

I've cut down hugely, but am currently still having 2 slices of toast with scrambled eggs and sausage or bacon for breakfast or brunch. That's the only bread I'm eating atm, but as I'm struggling to get close to 130g a day (I'm usually closer to 200g) I'm looking to make savings where I can. I don't usually check my BS 2 hours after breakfast, but it was up from 13.3 to 21.9 today; really doesn't feel as though I'm making much progress even though I've cut down significantly on my carb intake.

That sounds a big jump for breakfast even with 2 slices of toast. If it was sausages then check the carbs as some are much higher than others, as they have more cereal fillers. High meat content are usually only 2g carbs or less per sausage.
Are you keeping a food diary with everything you eat and drink and an estimate of the carbs as that will show you where there may be some savings to be made.

 

[Lucyr]

would recommend Jasons Protein loaf, tastes really and is 12.9 grams per slice. There's also a Warburtons light (https://www.warburtons.co.uk/products/bread/danish/danish-white-400g/) which is 11.9 grams but the slices are pretty th

Warburtons Wholemeal 400g is 9.0g carbs per slice

 

[Buffybegood]

That sounds a big jump for breakfast even with 2 slices of toast. If it was sausages then check the carbs as some are much higher than others, as they have more cereal fillers. High meat content are usually only 2g carbs or less per sausage.
Are you keeping a food diary with everything you eat and drink and an estimate of the carbs as that will show you where there may be some savings to be made.

They're ordinary Richmond thick pork sausages, they're 13g for 2, so obviously 6.5g each. Must admit I thought a sausage was pretty much a sausage, looks like there are lower carb versions out there so I'll bear that in mind next time I'm shopping.

I'm not keeping a food diary as such, because I'm eating pretty much the same thing every day which comes in at about 195g of carbs. I know this is miles over what's recommended, but it's miles less than I'm used to, and I'm still hungry most of the time atm.