Getting very angry with Abbott over Libre 2.

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Looks like it works sometimes: http://jkaltes.byethost16.com/JugglucoWearOS/mmol.html

Overall it doesn't sound like an attractive option (to use Juggluco on the watch in either mode).
I note the latest update for Juggluco says it can use Bluetooth between the phone and the watch (for when you're using Juggluco on the phone to read the sensor). (Previously it had to use wifi, which only works when you're in some place where both the phone and watch can connect to the wifi.)
 
yellow card submitted, needed to buy a new phone in a hurry, checked it had bluetooth NFC and Android version, told by Abbott today that the A13 is not supported, total rubbish. and BTW on my Samsung A70 it was at best flakey, I have 5 in my wardrobe at a cost of nearly £60 each all on the NHS, this is shameful Abbott - SORT IT
 
yellow card submitted, needed to buy a new phone in a hurry, checked it had bluetooth NFC and Android version, told by Abbott today that the A13 is not supported, total rubbish. and BTW on my Samsung A70 it was at best flakey, I have 5 in my wardrobe at a cost of nearly £60 each all on the NHS, this is shameful Abbott - SORT IT
In fairness dexcom have an even shorter list of compatible phones. Could you perhaps get reader so you still use them. I had problems with the libre when I was on it. But the above situation where it's just not compatible with a certain phone doesn't seem yellow card worthy epsaolly when they provide readers(unless they stopped doing that?)
 
In fairness dexcom have an even shorter list of compatible phones. Could you perhaps get reader so you still use them. I had problems with the libre when I was on it. But the above situation where it's just not compatible with a certain phone doesn't seem yellow card worthy epsaolly when they provide readers(unless they stopped doing that?)
@rayray119 your reference to Dexcom is a bit of a red herring.

The yellow card is about Abbotts Freestyle Libre 2 and it seems that the only way we 'users' can alert the NHS to the many shortcomings of Libre 2 is the Yellow Card Scheme.

I personally think that Abbott have lost their way, with their owners or shareholders enjoying the huge profits Abbott made from providing PPE to many countries as a Covid response. The NHS was buying PPE from Abbott during 2020 and 2021; the contracts were well over £10 million monthly. The consequence is that Abbott are a giant Pharma company able to maximise profits and CGM is now just a tiny part of their core business. No incentive to meet the needs of people with diabetes; lots of opportunity to exploit the lucrative and probably less discerning sports market.

Its a major technical challenge to provide sensors that are compatible with such a wide array of phones, of different makes, models, ages and operating systems and they would have done a lot better to concentrate on providing a smart, friendly Reader with Libre 2 - rather than something using black and white technology with such limiting and clumsy tech - essentially the original Libre Reader in a different colour and able to provide alarms. That problem can only get worse with Libre 3 where, apparently, no Reader is offered. If Abbott had concentrated on providing a modern and appropriate Reader for their sensors, even if the cost was double, then they could be seen to offer a decent service to diabetes - rather than the current nonsense of unreliability and uncertainty of Reader availability etc.
 
I think there is going to be a reader for libre 3 isn't there?
 
I think there is going to be a reader for libre 3 isn't there?
I use dexcom with the build your own app on my phone....basically, some some rando online has produced their version of the dexcom app with the bit that tells it not to run on certain phones removed.
It works well, but part of me does think 'i use something from reddit to keep myself alive'
I also have reader. Makes sense, i think, to have a back up.
I may see if i can get a dexcom compatable phone next time i get one, though it seems all the phones listed are either only available second hand, or really costly
 
I think there is going to be a reader for libre 3 isn't there?
I understand not - but I could be wrong. If there is it needs to be a vast improvement on the L2 Reader - relevant to this decade in this century.
 
I understand not - but I could be wrong. If there is it needs to be a vast improvement on the L2 Reader - relevant to this decade in this century.
I must be missing something because the Libre 2 reader works absolutely fine for me and does everything I need it to..... maybe it's because I have never used a phone with LibreLink which I believe has more features, but you don't miss what you have never had. 🙄
 
I must be missing something because the Libre 2 reader works absolutely fine for me and does everything I need it to..... maybe it's because I have never used a phone with LibreLink which I believe has more features, but you don't miss what you have never had. 🙄

Only ever use phone & had so few issues.
 
I must be missing something because the Libre 2 reader works absolutely fine for me and does everything I need it to..... maybe it's because I have never used a phone with LibreLink which I believe has more features, but you don't miss what you have never had. 🙄
True - about not missing what you've never had.

But L2 still needs one to scan to get a reading, yet the sensor is radiating a reading almost every single minute - only interruptedcwhen too much change confuses the algorithm. That signal could have been captured and made Libre 2 a real-time CGM, rather than intermittent / flash scan. There are unofficial apps that can (and do) read that emission - which Abbott have ferociously tried to stop (Why?). I use Diabox on my android phone and the difference between real CGM rather than flash scan is arguably superior to the difference between no CGM and flash CGM.

But that is just the start of my criticism. Admittedly my D is fairly brittle, so I can plummet from 7 to 4 very quickly. Why is the low alert capped at 5.6? Sometimes that is already too low, when I'm crashing. I accept that my needs could be unusual - but so what? Why is that threshold unnecessarily low? Diabox allows me to have the low alert from 6.7 AND I have the opportunity to have a 2nd Urgent low alert/alarm. So even when my normal low threshold has been triggered, I get a 2nd chance! This is still well adrift of the multiple alert (alarm) choices that most smart phones can provide.

The choice of sounds for alerts is generous from the Diabox settings - but (as with my fairly smart phone) I can choose other tunes from any music on my phone. There are sound alerts for both rising and falling BG and I've chosen for when falling the note sequence that is going down and of course the notes that are rising when going up; there is no doubt in my mind that a change is occurring and in which direction. I have the alert set to warn me when the rate of change is greater than 0.3. But that's not all - Diabox shows rates of change from 0.1 to 0.7. None of this diagonal or vertical guessing with Libre 2; clear trend diagnosis and numerically depicted. Libre could have done that, but both the LibreLink app and the Reader are lazy providers.

But why is Libre 2 underwhelming? Well the Diabox app has been written by a T1 geek (he unashamedly calls himself that) with a clear understanding of what would any insulin dependent user want to see on the app. His work is regulated by a small Committee of people who are each insulin dependent. They receive feedback from Users and direct what upgrade the geek should work on next; they are the equivalent of a configuration control committee that would normally be found for any IT project.

Does Abbott have such a process? If they do it is totally invisible and will almost certainly be controlled by the financiers. It explains how Abbott can force an upgrade of the LibreLink app on every single user (no choice) that didn't work properly, clearly wasn't appraised by any responsible Configuration Control process.

Why does the Libre Reader display a graph only in Portrait, with no option to see more detail in Landscape mode? Why only in grey and white - not always easy in difficult light; have Abbott never seen a colour screen? Yes, of course they have, but what they provide is a cheap upgrade of the original Libre Reader with scant regard for what a real user might appreciate and what today's tech can so readily provide.

Why can data only be sent through a cable to a PC or laptop that has a USB port? Not many laptops still have that capability and increasingly people don't bother with or need a PC these days.

I could go on. CGM sensors are a brilliant concept. For Libre 2 they are woefully under-delivered by a lazy provider who doesn't have to compete for much of its business: they could have done so much better with Libre 2 from the original Libre. And notwithstanding that there is a Yellow Card Scheme: who in the NHS manages this contract for relatively high priced single items? From my previous incarnation such neglect would simply not be allowed or tolerated for any of the purchases I ever made using the public purse and my budget was up to £25m annually. All scrutinised, accountable and managed through a Contracts Branch that had to adhere to Treasury Procurement Rules. Very bureaucratic, but very transparent and reassuring that there was a visible procurement process, which accepted observations and criticisms about the delivery of the end product. There was even a modest reward, actively promoted, for ideas that led to greater efficiency.

I would attach snapshots from my Diabox front screen. But right now that photo capture tech is defeating me! Currently I am displayed a fair bit higher than I might wish at 11.2, but this c.1 hr after dinner and this Libre 2 sensor is running c.2.7 pts above actual BG in mid range and nearer 3.5 when Libre and thus Diabox is displaying in the 11s. The differential gets worse as my BG rises - all part of why I sometimes struggle with interpreting the numbers from Libre 2; the trends seem fine and reliable.

So that's what I think you are missing, @rebrascora.
 
@Proud to be erratic Thanks for that Roland. As a tech dinosaur who resents the intrusion of my mobile phone and frequently leaves it behind, I never the less, love my Libre reader, so it is very much a case of me not missing any of those things because I haven't had them and don't feel I need them. I still view the Libre as "a marvel" that makes my life and diabetes management so much easier. I am sure it could be better, but I am one of those people who likes things basic. Lots of bells and whistles means more chance for something to go wrong. Give me an old nuts and bolts Landrover Defender with manual gear box, manual window winders and seat adjustment over an all singing, all dancing new automatic saloon/sports car, with electric everything. Told you I was a dinosaur!

The only thing that bugs me ever so slightly about the reader is the adjustment of carbs input because you have to press and hold to clock the carbs up and with the touch screen sometimes is isn't as reliable as you would like. Especially outside in the cold with gloves on. 🙄
 
yellow card submitted, needed to buy a new phone in a hurry, checked it had bluetooth NFC and Android version, told by Abbott today that the A13 is not supported, total rubbish. and BTW on my Samsung A70 it was at best flakey, I have 5 in my wardrobe at a cost of nearly £60 each all on the NHS, this is shameful Abbott - SORT IT

Are you running LibreLink 2.8.4 @dennismate

 
I'm a new T1, i had my first sensor on for 40 hours then it just stopped working. My second one lasted 5 days then just ended.

However, if i use an app called "Glimp" it still reads the sensor and it gives me a reading. Not great having to use another app but sometimes it lets you continue using a sensor that no longer works with their app. So far i have found the sensors frustrating

Apple are working on a non invasive CGM for their watches though 😉 Game changer!! I can't wait for this

 
@Proud to be erratic why is the LibreLink app so underwhelming?
Probably the same reason the Dexcom app is even more underwhelming - they manufacture and sell medical appliances: they are not web designers. As theDiabox (and xDrip) are designed by people who are designing apps they focus on the app not the sensor technology.
I agree that this should not be the case but it is not uncommon - I look at apps for buying train tickets are realise they are created by companies who run trains but don't design apps. Likewise supermarket apps and the like.
 
I'm a new T1, i had my first sensor on for 40 hours then it just stopped working. My second one lasted 5 days then just ended.

However, if i use an app called "Glimp" it still reads the sensor and it gives me a reading. Not great having to use another app but sometimes it lets you continue using a sensor that no longer works with their app. So far i have found the sensors frustrating

Apple are working on a non invasive CGM for their watches though 😉 Game changer!! I can't wait for this

I want to be positive about this and upbeat. I particularly agree with a comment in the middle of the article about (Steve) “Jobs’s vision of health care combined with technology,”.

However the article also places an emphasis on this tech intending to help with diabetes prediction; and no doubt the health care contribution could be sufficiently lucrative for the sports industry, rather than life saving health - where the compliance thresholds are a lot more onerous.

That said @UnexpectedDiagnosis, do persist as much as you can with Libre 2 - despite the unreliability you're experiencing. I had no choice only 3 yrs ago to get on with just finger pricking: Libre wasn't an option for me then. In some ways I'm glad I had to do that "apprenticeship" and feel comfortable about managing successive hypos followed by hypers. I gradually learnt first hand that these things were manageable and overcoming that initial sense of panic when hypo - horrible as it was, I learnt to cope. This has stood me in good stead once I had Libre 2 and encountered my own level of sensor unreliability.

Today I've been stripping wallpaper from a neglected and run down house my daughter has just purchased. Even with this week's poor sensor I've managed by judicious use of low alerts - in conjunction with frequent snacks - to keep myself wholly in range [so far!]. Non-invasive future tech or current unreliable invasive tech needs (in my opinion) just the same degree of commitment to keeping myself safe. A pump might be a further help - but even then (unless it is fully integrated to the sensor and totally replicating my missing pancreas) I would still need to monitor and regulate (ie manage) my BG status. Unless the future tech is fully integrated to glucose and insulin solutions what exists today is already a huge help and I simply would have struggled to keep some control, hour by hour, without my existing CGM.
@Proud to be erratic why is the LibreLink app so underwhelming?
Probably the same reason the Dexcom app is even more underwhelming - they manufacture and sell medical appliances: they are not web designers. As theDiabox (and xDrip) are designed by people who are designing apps they focus on the app not the sensor technology.
I agree that this should not be the case but it is not uncommon - I look at apps for buying train tickets are realise they are created by companies who run trains but don't design apps. Likewise supermarket apps and the like.
@helli, I can't disagree with the principles of what you say. But it does not make it correct. Abbott could have concentrated on upgrading Libre 1 to provide a vastly better product that was fit for purpose, but haven't. They'd solved the sensor hardware issues but the app and flash scanning makes it mediocre, even on a decent smart phone. If it wasn't so, why have you resorted to using an additional app?

They could have exploited those diabetic geeks to help - instead of arrogantly following their chosen route and trying to close down the alternatives. I said earlier and say again: WHY? They don't have to take on the liability, if they don't wish to; but the secondary apps improve what they have provided and could lead to a stronger demand for sensors in the sports industry as well as the health market. Hence I'm underwhelmed.

If Libre 2 had come with a new Reader, akin to a specialised but basic phone and with improvements to the capability of the LibreLink app - I could convince myself they tried. But they haven't. And the recent fiasco of their app upgrade not being compatible with Android 13 is just an outright and in my opinion unforgivable disgrace. They are not selling train tickets (and I agree the last time I bought a ticket on-line was a very poor experience). They are providing a very important , sometimes almost life-saving, product.

I remain underwhelmed: great potential, poor delivery.
 
I'm a new T1, i had my first sensor on for 40 hours then it just stopped working. My second one lasted 5 days then just ended.

However, if i use an app called "Glimp" it still reads the sensor and it gives me a reading. Not great having to use another app but sometimes it lets you continue using a sensor that no longer works with their app. So far i have found the sensors frustrating

Apple are working on a non invasive CGM for their watches though 😉 Game changer!! I can't wait for this

I would not bet on Apple they been repotedly been working g on this for a long time.
 
I would not bet on Apple they been repotedly been working g on this for a long time.
A number of companies have. According to this episode of a podcast the prototype exists as something the size of a phone, but they still don't give any indication of how accurate it might be (or could be). Altogether they also don't think anyone should hold their breath for an actual product.

 
@rayray119 your reference to Dexcom is a bit of a red herring.

The yellow card is about Abbotts Freestyle Libre 2 and it seems that the only way we 'users' can alert the NHS to the many shortcomings of Libre 2 is the Yellow Card Scheme.

I personally think that Abbott have lost their way, with their owners or shareholders enjoying the huge profits Abbott made from providing PPE to many countries as a Covid response. The NHS was buying PPE from Abbott during 2020 and 2021; the contracts were well over £10 million monthly. The consequence is that Abbott are a giant Pharma company able to maximise profits and CGM is now just a tiny part of their core business. No incentive to meet the needs of people with diabetes; lots of opportunity to exploit the lucrative and probably less discerning sports market.

Its a major technical challenge to provide sensors that are compatible with such a wide array of phones, of different makes, models, ages and operating systems and they would have done a lot better to concentrate on providing a smart, friendly Reader with Libre 2 - rather than something using black and white technology with such limiting and clumsy tech - essentially the original Libre Reader in a different colour and able to provide alarms. That problem can only get worse with Libre 3 where, apparently, no Reader is offered. If Abbott had concentrated on providing a modern and appropriate Reader for their sensors, even if the cost was double, then they could be seen to offer a decent service to diabetes - rather than the current nonsense of unreliability and uncertainty of Reader availability etc.
I know it's about libre 2 but I was simlarping pointed out that it's compaters were worst in that respect of the reason for yellow card(as I underrstood that it was submitted simlpy because it wasn't compatible with there phone). If you have libre 2 on presentation you don't have pay for a reader(as many have said including me when I was on the libre they were given a reader). It just seemed a little bit harsh to me(and I had many problems with the libre mainly they never last which was why I had to stop) but I'm happy to agree to disagree and I respect your point of view 🙂.
 
A number of companies have. According to this episode of a podcast the prototype exists as something the size of a phone, but they still don't give any indication of how accurate it might be (or could be). Altogether they also don't think anyone should hold their breath for an actual product.

Fitbit look the ones to be ahead patent wise... i personally think they will be here within 2 - 3 years.

I am trying my 3rd sensor... i read somewhere to leave it in 12 - 24 hours before the initial scan as it can help reduce calibration time and gives you that extra time of use so i have tried that. Fingers crossed this one works a bit better than my last couple

How do people find sleeping with them? I also read that if you sleep on them the pressure can trigger false low readings
 
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