Getting very angry with Abbott over Libre 2.

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I have been following this thread with interest and feel I must put in a word for the defence.

When I started with technology (i.e. computers and stuff) backwards compatibility was a big thing. Whenever an operating system was updated it was confidently expected that software written for older versions would still function as intended. Over the years that philosophy has slowly but surely eroded to the point it is to all intents and purposes disappeared. More operating systems are now commonplace, all have more features and are continually being updated. Wireless interconnectivity is now universal with each system having its own protocols and these are continually being updated. On top of it there are more devices trying to interact with it all, each with their own peculiarities. When you throw in the commercial side, where all the players are trying to protect their own position it can all get out of hand especially when the consumer wants it all for free.

The whole thing is unbelievably complicated and expecting everything to work every time in the real world is an expectation too far.

As I say, thats the other side of the story. It is something I appreciate, and it goes a long way to explaining why I keep my Mont Blanc fountain pen, notebook and basic spreadsheet to hand.
 
I too have been following this thread and have sympathies on both sides, a Libre 2 user and also working in IT. @Pattidevans, I definitely feel your anger and annoyance about the situation, it is not good customer service and more importantly as a medical device that we rely on so much it is not only frustrating but worrying as well. I know there are alternatives and you can always use a BG meter, but that is rather beside the point of having the Libre and the freedom and extra information it gives you.

As @Docb says, we are in a world with a myriad of different devices, operating systems and other apps which makes testing a bit of a nightmare. It was hard enough to test a program running on one version of an operating system on one bit of hardware and to get 100% reliability. In this world it is impossible. However, the speed of fixes being released from Abbott does seem rather slow and I would have hoped that they would have been more responsive even having to wait for approval from Apple (not sure of the Android process).

I have been lucky up to now and not had any issues with scanning and am using the latest Apple version of Librelink (2.8.1) on my iPhone XS Max under iOS 16.1.1 with a pending update to 16.1.2. I do now almost dread updates in case they cause the Librelink app to malfunction but I don’t want to sacrifice other fixes and security patches so will have to keep biting the bullet and doing the upgrades. In the future if I do get any problems I would be tempted to try something like the Shuggah app to see if that can read the sensor Bluetooth outputs and get a reading.

Sad that on top of an already complicated life with diabetes we now have a layer of technology that adds complexity rather than making life easier which is the promise of these advances.

I hope you get some luck with either using a previous Android version or Abbott get a fix out that genuinely fixes the issues with the current version of the app.
 
@Pattidevans, the Moto G6 Play stopped getting OS upgrades and support in 2020, so my advice is to use the older app which you know works with your phone.

I get annoyed with technology, the android 13 update on my tablet is fine for my in-ear buds but makes my favourite 8 year old bluetooth headphones go out of sync. I have to go into the hidden settings in 'Developer Options' to change bluetooth settings, then the audio sync issue is gone. Android 13 has changed something in its bluetooth settings, @BadaBing I think this might be where your alarms have gone.
 
Pattidevans said:
I got very angry yesterday after installing the latest software release from Abbott for the Libre 2 which is supposed to correct the problems caused by the previous update. Now I am not only getting the slooooow reporting of the actual number after a scan (up to 4 minutes) that I had before, I am also getting the "scan failure, try again in 10 minutes" notice frequently. So I rang them. I obediently re-booted my phone after clearing the cache as instructed. This made no difference at all. So then the conversation went on with me telling the agent that my phone worked perfectly before the update at the end of November prior to the latest one, which was supposed to cure the problems caused. I asked if there was any way I could revert to the original software version and was told NO. So after me telling him I am using a Moto G6 Play phone using Android 9 he tells me it's not one of the compatible phones. He was nice enough and obviously sticking to his script. I then said, "so is it your recommendation that I buy a new phone?" Apparently not... it is his recommendation that I use the reader. I tell him that means carrying reader, phone and PDM at all times, when I can hardly carry a small handbag due to a wedge fracture of my vertibra which causes pain. He then says yes, that's what you'll have to do. In conclusion he says "so can I report that you are complaining because your phone does not work with the sensor". I said "NO you can't" You can report that my phone which previously worked perfectly with the Libre 2 now doesn't work due to Abbot's so called 'upgrade' which was forced upon your users without notice or choice. The problem lays with your software which is unfit for purpose"







FWIW this is what their website says on compatible phones:















So my phone meets their recommendation. I'd like to take this further... any ideas on how this can be done?






I know exactly what you mean. I had a problem with the alarms last week which was driving me nuts. Rang customer service and followed what they said and no difference at all as still not connected via Bluetooth. From last Tues on new sensor using reader for alarms but now have to carry both together. Use ipad mini so can't share data with the hospital. Not happy as my phone was working perfectly before but not now. Certainly a software issue but they couldn't wait to get me off the phone. I shall be asking to change to an alternative sensor on my next hospital review. Maybe if they lose customers they'll fix these issues?
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Docb said:
I have been following this thread with interest and feel I must put in a word for the defence.

When I started with technology (i.e. computers and stuff) backwards compatibility was a big thing. Whenever an operating system was updated it was confidently expected that software written for older versions would still function as intended. Over the years that philosophy has slowly but surely eroded to the point it is to all intents and purposes disappeared. More operating systems are now commonplace, all have more features and are continually being updated. Wireless interconnectivity is now universal with each system having its own protocols and these are continually being updated. On top of it there are more devices trying to interact with it all, each with their own peculiarities. When you throw in the commercial side, where all the players are trying to protect their own position it can all get out of hand especially when the consumer wants it all for free.

The whole thing is unbelievably complicated and expecting everything to work every time in the real world is an expectation too far.

As I say, thats the other side of the story. It is something I appreciate, and it goes a long way to explaining why I keep my Mont Blanc fountain pen, notebook and basic spreadsheet to hand.
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Thanks @Docb

I have some sympathy with your spirited defence. Up to a point.

I've lost count of the number of times Microsoft have updated their ubiquitous operating system, or issued security updates, only to occasionally cause havoc with third party peripherals that need to work seamlessly with Windows. But at least Microsoft has always been (reasonably) diligent in putting things right.

And Microsoft always communicates and works with manufacturers of third party peripherals so that any downtime caused by OS upgrades or security patches are resolved relatively quickly and permanently.

Microsoft doesn't usually have end customers having to endlessly fiddle with their PC settings to try and make bits of software work on their computers!

Abbott, Google, Apple and the phone manufacturers don't appear to be communicating and cooperating with each other. They really ought to when medical device software is being put on the Google Play and Apple stores that real live patients use and rely on every day.
 
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Benny G said:
@Pattidevans, the Moto G6 Play stopped getting OS upgrades and support in 2020, so my advice is to use the older app which you know works with your phone.

I get annoyed with technology, the android 13 update on my tablet is fine for my in-ear buds but makes my favourite 8 year old bluetooth headphones go out of sync. I have to go into the hidden settings in 'Developer Options' to change bluetooth settings, then the audio sync issue is gone. Android 13 has changed something in its bluetooth settings, @BadaBing I think this might be where your alarms have gone.
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Thanks @Benny G, I might try to help Abbott out and fiddle with the developer options on my phone and see if I can fix things.

Following one Abbott Customer Service session I already had to unpair my airbuds from my phone because Abbott thought they might be conflicting with the bluetooth signal between the Libre 2 sensor and Librelink. That appears to have been wrong.
 
Hi all
Sorry, been major busy with Christmas stuff and not had a minute to respond (why is it always wives who are responsible for gift buying, wrapping, cads etc?

First of all many thanks for the suggestions of alternate software and most of all the roll back of Librelink which I shall be doing when this sensor finishes.

I just wanted to say that it’s not so much the software and it not working that is making me angry - anyone can make a mistake - rather it is Abbott’s arrogant attitude towards it’s users and by extension the NHS who are spending millions with them which makes me angry.
 
Pattidevans said:
Hi all

I just wanted to say that it’s not so much the software and it not working that is making me angry - anyone can make a mistake - rather it is Abbott’s arrogant attitude towards it’s users and by extension the NHS who are spending millions with them which makes me angry.
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Good morning @Pattidevans

I'm not sure the NHS are aware properly about precisely what has happened with the Freestyle Libre 2 and Librelink in the last 5/6 weeks and just how many people it is affecting

Many people have been gamely contacting Abbott customer services and trusting that Abbott's IT people will resolve the problems with alarms and scanning using Librelink. That's what I've done up until now.

I've only this morning spoken to my diabetes clinicians to tell them that I pretty much can't rely on the Librelink alarms to go off on my mobile phone unless I constantly switch my bluetooth on and off, or constantly restart my phone or clear caches or uninstall and reinstall Librelink.

I asked my clinicians if they might ask whomever is responsible centrally in NHS England for liaising with the diabetes tech companies to contact Abbott and, as Abbott's largest UK customer, "encourage" Abbott to sort the issues out quickly and permanently.

Will my clinicians contact NHS England? I have no idea.

I read on another forum about some parents who rely on the Libre 2 to keep an eye on when their diabetic child, with little or no hypo awareness, is going hypoglycemic.

They recounted an instance when the child's sugars were in the high 2's/low 3's and the Libre 2 alarms did not go off. Now of course, it is possible that the Libre 2 sensor might have been faulty in that instance, But the parents mentioned they'd noticed the Libre 2 system is functioning differently since the update.

Thankfully, the parents said their child is recovering from that episode of hypoglycemia that wasn't warned by an alarm going off.

Hopefully those parents will have the good sense to report this to the child's diabetes team so appropriate follow up action can be taken by the NHS.

One of the weaknesses of the NHS warning systems it seems to me is that the NHS doesn't get involved early enough - until something catastrophic or near catastrophic (and preventable) happens.
 
Yes, must find time to email my DSN today. I've found that the best way to get her attention.
 
trophywench said:
Er - would it be a good idea for DUK themselves to contact Partha Kar for him to have a go at Abbot?
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If DUK and Professor Kar are prepared to do so, then yes please!

The situation is sufficiently concerning now. A number of those who are hypo unaware - including children - who (or whose partners, carers or parents) rely on the Libre 2 alarms are potentially being put at risk, particularly when sleeping.

Not everyone has access to a Libre 2 reader (when the Libre 2 was launched users were encouraged to use the Librelink app with a compatible mobile phone).
 
I wonder if folks who are experiencing problems with the Librelink app (seems to be the Android version from what I am reading) should report issues via the Yellow Card system (https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/)? It does say it is used for “medical device incidents” as well as reporting adverse reactions to drugs. Maybe that would help make this more public and get a better response from Abbott?
 
Eternal422 said:
I wonder if folks who are experiencing problems with the Librelink app (seems to be the Android version from what I am reading) should report issues via the Yellow Card system (https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/)? It does say it is used for “medical device incidents” as well as reporting adverse reactions to drugs. Maybe that would help make this more public and get a better response from Abbott?
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@Eternal422, the short answer to your question is: yes, of course they should.

My understanding of the yellow card scheme is that for both drugs and medical devices, the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency is only interested in being notified about "adverse" effects of using a drug or medical device. So essentially: did the product make you, or contribute to you being, ill, and in what way?

Anyone who has suffered an incident of hypoglycaemia because they rely on the Libre 2 alarms but did not receive an alarm following the Librelink update should report that using the yellow card scheme.

There are many people - like me - who have been inconvenienced by the Librelink updates but who thankfully haven't suffered an "adverse" event so far, like a hypo, or who have been "hyper" for sustained periods because the Libre 2 alarms don't go off on one's mobile phone following the update. Presumably the MHRA won't be interested in such incidents.

If my understanding of the yellow card scheme is right, it is a fundamental weakness with the scheme in relation to medical devices because it doesn't allow patients to notify the MHRA early enough about "clear and present" imminent "adverse events."

If the Libre 2 alarms (a critical feature for those who are hypo unaware or who are susceptible to hyperglycemia) won't work "normally" on a mobile phone following an update, then surely Librelink is no longer fit for purpose?

One shouldn't have to wait for a serious, catastrophic, or near catastrophic (but preventable) event to happen with a medical device.

In any event, everyone who believes their Librelink isn't working normally following the updates should be informing their diabetes clinicians. The NHS is Abbott's largest UK customer. They can encourage "Abbott to sort the issues out quickly and permanently.

At the moment the NHS don't appear to be doing anything. At all.
 
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barrym said:
As a test I would suggest trying Juggluco (also on Play Store), it does real time (?) CGM by hijacking the alarm signals, and allows a NFC scan to mimic the LL one. It will run alongside LL happily, and will hopefully confirm something
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I've just started using it and I second the recommendation. I don't like the interface that much but it works fine alongside LibreLink (just turn off the alarms in LibreLink), and there's something rather nice in seeing the basic BG and arrow on the lock screen without needing to scan. (I just need to remember to scan with LL often enough so it can keep its statistics. Juggluco can also show TIR things but the display just isn't as nice as LL's.)
 
Bruce Stephens said:
I've just started using it and I second the recommendation. I don't like the interface that much but it works fine alongside LibreLink (just turn off the alarms in LibreLink), and there's something rather nice in seeing the basic BG and arrow on the lock screen without needing to scan. (I just need to remember to scan with LL often enough so it can keep its statistics. Juggluco can also show TIR things but the display just isn't as nice as LL's.)
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I agree with your observations totally. My next step may well be a watch….. But is that really necessary? But Father Christmas may just think it is😉.
 
barrym said:
I agree with your observations totally. My next step may well be a watch….. But is that really necessary? But Father Christmas may just think it is😉.
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I'm slightly ahead of you. I had an older android watch (an LG Watch Urbane). After fiddling with the instructions (for xDrip+) I decided it was just too old.

So I bought a Pixel Watch. (Alternatives included Samsung Galaxy Watch 4 or 5, but I don't have a Samsung phone so that reduces their utility a bit. But they are a little cheaper than the Pixel Watch.)

And it works very well: Juggluco feeds xDrip+ (both on the phone), and xDrip+ is also installed on the watch. It provides a few watch faces and I think the one I'm using is the default which shows the date and time as well as the current BG and arrow and a graph.

So on my phone's notification line I have BG readings from Juggluco and xDrip+ (as well as the empty LibreLink notification).

There's a complication (a small bit of information that can be embedded in other watch faces) but it seems not so useful: it has two lines, the top line gives the rate of change of BG and the lower one shows BG and an arrow. But the second line is so tiny I can't read it most of the time. So either I'm doing something wrong (maybe there's a configuration somewhere) or it's just not usable. (Maybe it's usable on a bigger watch: the Pixel Watch does have quite a small screen, relatively.)
 
I note that there's an experimental Juggluco app for Wear OS, so it looks like it would be possible to read from the sensor directly from a watch. (I doubt I'd want to do that: one reason for using my phone over the reader is for the big display.)
 
I am still using a watch older than the LG Urbane, my Sony smartwatch has served me well. The watch is so old that I had to sideload Google services to allow xdrip+ to work properly. Used with Libre 1 and a blucon the warch can be used without a phone. (I only have 3 Libre 1 sensors left before I make the switch to Libre 2.)
I use the smartwatch for xdrip+ and as a stepcounter (which works as an activity tracker inside xdrip+) The watch also tells the time.

If you guys discover how to put Libre 2 direct to a smartwatch, without a phone, don't be shy: share.
 
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