Covid-19 response

[Dave_Z1a]

Cover ups abound.

White House Orchestrated Cover-Up of COVID Vaccine Heart Damage

Freedom of Information Act emails obtained by DailyClout show high-level officials at the White House, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the American Academy of Pediatricians knew COVID-19 vaccines were linked to myocarditis and death, yet doubled-down on vaccine mandates.

childrenshealthdefense.org

 

[Amity Island]

Cover ups abound.

White House Orchestrated Cover-Up of COVID Vaccine Heart Damage

Freedom of Information Act emails obtained by DailyClout show high-level officials at the White House, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the American Academy of Pediatricians knew COVID-19 vaccines were linked to myocarditis and death, yet doubled-down on vaccine mandates.

childrenshealthdefense.org

In the years I've followed the pandemic, I've never come across anyone or any organisation actually "recommending" the jab for healthy kids. Even for kids that might be particularly vulnerable, in this country at least, the JCVI for example only "offer" the jab to those at high risk of covid19.

Cover ups (or not), for younger kids, it's essentially been the parent who has made the decision. Healthy kids were always at a very low risk of death or serious illness if; they ever caught the early strains of the virus. The jabs make no difference to infectiousness of kids compared to those that didn't get the jab.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

I've never come across anyone or any organisation actually "recommending" the jab for healthy kids.

CDC is currently recommending it to everyone over the age of six months. The UK was certainly not alone in not recommending it to children but there are differing views. (I think we're unusual in entirely removing the possibility of vaccination (this vaccination; obviously MMR and so on are still available and strongly recommended) for most people but it's possible I'm wrong about that.)

 

[Dragonheart]

Healthy kids were always at a very low risk of death or serious illness if; they ever caught the early strains of the virus. The jabs make no difference to infectiousness of kids compared to those that didn't get the jab.

Tell that to the kids still suffering or those that have as yet undiagnosed complications as a result of repeated infections. (See longcovidkids for details) . And now we’re hearing how the government refused to protect kids and schools better because they wanted to stand up to unions and nothing to do with medical evidence. We still have the situation where schools are poorly ventilated increasing kids and teachers sickness and absence levels for a myriad or airborne illnesses whilst parliament have new fancy filtration systems.

Of course it made a difference. In the earlier variants the jab did a much better job of actually preventing the disease (not 100% but better than it does now). And if you don’t have it in the first place you can’t spread it.

I’m sure you’re both happy now no one under 65 can choose to get the vaccines unless clinically vulnerable or a few other limited categories.

 

[Amity Island]

CDC is currently recommending it to everyone over the age of six months. The UK was certainly not alone in not recommending it to children but there are differing views. (I think we're unusual in entirely removing the possibility of vaccination (this vaccination; obviously MMR and so on are still available and strongly recommended) for most people but it's possible I'm wrong about that.)

Bruce, have you a link to this recommendation for children? The ones I've seen from cdc seem to be around a "make available", "offered" or have it "if you want" but not yet seen a recommendation. I'm not doubting you, just not seen it. Thanks.

“We know millions of parents and caregivers are eager to get their young children vaccinated, and with today’s decision, they can,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the CDC’s director, said in a statement.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

The ones I've seen from cdc seem to be around a "make available", "offered" or have it "if you want" but not yet seen a recommendation.

Just this one: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/index.html

"Everyone 6 months and older should get an updated COVID-19 vaccine." sounds like a recommendation to me.

 

[Amity Island]

Tell that to the kids still suffering or those that have as yet undiagnosed complications as a result of repeated infections.

Nobody said there is no risk.

Is there any difference in the number of times people get repeated infections between those jabbed and those not jabbed? Any difference between the infectiousness of those jabbed and not-jabbed?

Not forgetting, many of us had already caught the virus long before the vaccines were available.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

Is there any difference in the number of times people get repeated infections between those jabbed and those not jabbed? Any difference between the infectiousness of those jabbed and not-jabbed?

Probably not much. Is there a difference in the risks of harm from those infections between those vaccinated and not?

Not forgetting, many of us had already caught the virus long before the vaccines were available.

Which includes many children, of course. That's sad, but I'm not sure what relevance it has. I suffered all the infections now preventable with MMR but I'd very much recommend children born since MMR became standard receive it.

 

[Amity Island]

Which includes many children, of course. That's sad, but I'm not sure what relevance it has.

The relevance of many of us already having caught the virus before the vaccines became available is, I'd expect the strategy and advice to change accordingly. I wouldn't expect to be treated for something I've already had.

 

[Drummer]

Nobody said there is no risk.

Is there any difference in the number of times people get repeated infections between those jabbed and those not jabbed? Any difference between the infectiousness of those jabbed and not-jabbed?

Not forgetting, many of us had already caught the virus long before the vaccines were available.

I had covid a couple of times before the jab - it was no great problem - after the first jab, though, I thought I was going to die, or at least be badly affected. I was so very ill for weeks and have had an irregular heartbeat ever since. Although I always isolated when I got covid after that jab I did not take precautions for myself, as each time I caught it, I was less affected. I am fairly sure I have been infected 5 times, but it could be more now, as I've had a couple of 'bad colds'.

 

[Amity Island]

I had covid a couple of times before the jab - it was no great problem - after the first jab, though, I thought I was going to die, or at least be badly affected. I was so very ill for weeks and have had an irregular heartbeat ever since. Although I always isolated when I got covid after that jab I did not take precautions for myself, as each time I caught it, I was less affected. I am fairly sure I have been infected 5 times, but it could be more now, as I've had a couple of 'bad colds'.

Hi,

Sorry to hear that. May I ask, why / what were your reasons for getting the treatment(s) for something you'd already had and recovered from?

 

[Bruce Stephens]

Healthy kids were always at a very low risk of death or serious illness if; they ever caught the early strains of the virus.

Even discounting the various accounts of long covid, there seems to be decent evidence of damage to blood vessels from infection,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718312073417879558

and various stories about increasing cases of Type 1 diabetes and (I think) other autoimmune diseases though I'm not sure whether there's still thought to have been an increase or not.

Even just for the (very small number of) deaths and the (also quite small) number of hospitalisations, that seems to me to be worth considering seriously offering vaccination: children don't often die, and infection related deaths have been reduced dramatically largely due to vaccination. I think we should continue that reduction, not deliberately increase it.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

I'd expect the strategy and advice to change accordingly. I wouldn't expect to be treated for something I've already had.

Even if medically you believed that recovering from infection was equivalent to (say) one dose of vaccine, I think it's possible to argue that it's rational not to want to include that in public health policy. You don't want to encourage people to get infected, you don't want to complicate your messaging too much: you want people to take the vaccine. And people who get vaccinated who've already been infected will end up with an even better immune response.

I'm not sure how much it makes sense to use vaccination (or recovered from infection) status in the ways that many governments did. I can see why you might require MMR for state schools (though I don't think we do in the UK) since that really does provide protection to other children (some of who can't be vaccinated), but for this virus it does feel less sound as a policy.

Feels a lot more like an incentive for people to get vaccinated, which might be OK but doesn't feel nearly so certain to be helpful.

 

[Amity Island]

Even discounting the various accounts of long covid, there seems to be decent evidence of damage to blood vessels from infection.

I don't understand what the point of that statement is. How do we stop infection of sarscov2? The manufacturers claims from the outset were always about protecting people from getting seriously ill, being hospitalized, and dying, not from infection or ending the pandemic.

Benefits of Getting a COVID-19 Vaccine

What you need to know about getting a COVID-19 vaccination.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Bruce Stephens]

How do we stop infection of sarscov2?

We probably can't, but we could improve the response to infection by using vaccines. We could make efforts to reduce the frequency of infection: improve indoor air quality (as eventually happened for improving water quality after the horrors of cholera), stop treating infection with this (and other viruses) as healthy and encourage children (particularly) not to go to school when they feel unwell. Those sorts of things. Which would likely also reduce other respiratory infections.

 

[Dragonheart]

I don't understand what the point of that statement is. How do we stop infection of sarscov2? The manufacturers claims from the outset were always about protecting people from getting seriously ill, being hospitalized, and dying, not from infection or ending the pandemic.

Benefits of Getting a COVID-19 Vaccine

What you need to know about getting a COVID-19 vaccination.

www.cdc.gov

There’s always the data that shows that the risk of long covid and associated damage is increased in the more severe infections. Therefore a more mild infection, post vaccination, reduces the risk of long term side effects.

 

[Drummer]

Hi,

Sorry to hear that. May I ask, why / what were your reasons for getting the treatment(s) for something you'd already had and recovered from?

The jabs don't seem to offer any protection from catching Covid. I was advised to have numerous jabs, but I just had two - the second one caused no reaction at all - I suspect it was just saline solution, to be honest.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

the second one caused no reaction at all

I don't think that's all that unlikely. I think Pfizer reported that 50% of people didn't get "significant" side effects during the trial. I'm not sure what "significant" means, exactly, but I'd guess there's a non-trivial number who don't really notice anything (beyond the initial injection). (I presume almost everyone notices the injection: it's a sizeable needle into muscle after all.)

 

[Dragonheart]

I don't think that's all that unlikely. I think Pfizer reported that 50% of people didn't get "significant" side effects during the trial. I'm not sure what "significant" means, exactly, but I'd guess there's a non-trivial number who don't really notice anything (beyond the initial injection). (I presume almost everyone notices the injection: it's a sizeable needle into muscle after all.)

I’ve now had 5. Two have given me a slightly bruised arm. One of which made me a little lethargic. Two I hardly felt go in at at all (skill of the injector or luck - who knows). Three gave me zero side effects. I don’t for a minute believe medical staff were fraudulently giving out saline claiming it to be vaccine. Not everyone get side effects, nor the same ones each time. Quite frankly a bit daft to expect everyone gets noticeable effects every time.

 

[Drummer]

I’ve now had 5. Two have given me a slightly bruised arm. One of which made me a little lethargic. Two I hardly felt go in at at all (skill of the injector or luck - who knows). Three gave me zero side effects. I don’t for a minute believe medical staff were fraudulently giving out saline claiming it to be vaccine. Not everyone get side effects, nor the same ones each time. Quite frankly a bit daft to expect everyone gets noticeable effects every time.

It was just that the first one caused me to be very unwell indeed - fever, swollen legs and feet, coughing, swollen glands in my neck, headache, the area around the injection site was swollen and painful so I could not lie on my side to sleep. It took about a month to recover.
The second jab - nothing. I went with my husband and I said how concerned I was about having another jab - I was persuaded that it was essential - my husband had already been injected. The syringe used for his injection came from a tray on the table, the syringe used for mine was on a tray on the desk beside the computer being used to keep records. The batch number on our cards is the same, I had absolutely no reaction to the jab and I caught Covid soon afterwards. I seemed to have Covid whenever I was called for a jab after that and as it was so mild I did not feel at all troubled.