Change diet and weight loss to avoid metformin - I'm trying!!

[Franthepotter]

I'm sticking to olive oil but have also been eating quite a lot of hard goats cheese.

The Desmond view was that eggs and olive oil were worse for me than bread. I don't buy that really. They seemed very worried about cholesterol levels almost at the expense of glucose.

 

[Leadinglights]

I will do. That's exactly my conclusion from the course. They seemed to be pushing free carbs. Maybe sensible for folks who are new to food etc but I do know what I'm eating. It was rather depressing really.

What do they mean by free carbs, I'm not sure any carbs are quite free.

 

[Franthepotter]

I'd like to know if I am harming myself by not eating grains or wheat. These foods never suited me before diabetes so I really don't miss them.

 

[Franthepotter]

What do they mean by free carbs, I'm not sure any carbs are quite free.

Ah what I mean is carbs on their own... rice quinoa wheat ie a plate of rice or a slice of bread. I'm hoping I'm getting carbs in my vegetables

 

[Leadinglights]

I'm sticking to olive oil but have also been eating quite a lot of hard goats cheese.

I can't stand goats cheese, it just tastes how goats smell to me but some people tolerate it better than cow's milk cheese.

 

[Dragonheart]

Update after Desmond. Hi all so I went to Desmond day on Monday. I was explained I was having too few carbs and too much fat. So today I tried to gently change that. I had a breakfast of salad and tinned fish, then a small half tablespoon of qui oa for lunch. So today I have not spiked which is good but my overall levels are flat but over 7.5. Any suggestions?? I could continue with occasional 'pure' carbs and add oil or go back to no pure/free carbs and reduce the olive oil excess. Any views??? Thx so much. The potter

😡 Too few carbs? Utter tosh echoing the eatwell plate which is why so many type 2 progressively get worse.

If you were lactose intolerant would they say drink more milk. as type 2 we are effectively carb intolerant (we are resistant to the insulin required to process the carbs)

The Desmond view was that eggs and olive oil were worse for me than bread. I don't buy that really. They seemed very worried about cholesterol levels almost at the expense of glucose.

omg. The eggs and cholesterol myth was disproven a decade ago.

https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/healthy-fats-guidelines#healthy-fats talks about the pros and cons of various types of fat. Cheese is good.

I'd like to know if I am harming myself by not eating grains or wheat. These foods never suited me before diabetes so I really don't miss them.

 

[Franthepotter]

Ah what I mean is carbs on their own... rice quinoa wheat ie a plate of rice or a slice of bread. I'm hoping I'm getting carbs in my vegetables

I mean I've been carb free now for as long as I remember ie no bread no rice etc. I don't miss it but the Desmond folks were not really happy. There were a few of us who were trying that approach.

 

[Franthepotter]

I can't stand goats cheese, it just tastes how goats smell to me but some people tolerate it better than cow's milk cheese.

Yes I think I do. Do I have to be very concerned with cholesterol.my results were not very high.ibthought olive oil etc was good for me

 

[Leadinglights]

Ah what I mean is carbs on their own... rice quinoa wheat ie a plate of rice or a slice of bread. I'm hoping I'm getting carbs in my vegetables

I see, I thought what you meant was some carbs didn't count. There are some veg which are higher carb than others, like peas, broad beans, parsnips and of course potatoes, I tended to adopt not having more than 1 carby veg at a time and that counted as my carbs for that meal.

 

[Leadinglights]

I mean I've been carb free now for as long as I remember ie no bread no rice etc. I don't miss it but the Desmond folks were not really happy. There were a few of us who were trying that approach.

I think I would say low carb rather than carb free as that is well nigh impossible, even a lettuce leaf has some carb.

 

[Dragonheart]

I'd like to know if I am harming myself by not eating grains or wheat. These foods never suited me before diabetes so I really don't miss them.

How on earth could it be harmful? Sounds like they want you to eat more carbs now than at diagnosis.

They will probably quote lack of fibre as a reason for eating those carbs. But veggies, nuts and seeds have plenty and fibre doesn’t count towards any carb count anyway. The other argument is the brain needing 130g a day. But that is glucose not carbs needed. And glucose can be made from fat and protein if you were to actually eat zero carbs, and very few at all manage that. You’ll eat or make enough for your brain. Carbs are not essential for life. Protein and fat is.

Another argument is these lower GI carb slow or even out your blood glucose rises. They kept question here is compared to what? Yes it’ll be lower than simple nutritionally devoid sugars for example. But whole grain bread contains the same sort of carbs as white bread. And those carbs don’t disappear. They still turn to glucose and raise levels, even if by a bit less but for longer. The area under the curve remains the same. Better still not to raise it in the first place, assuming you still meet nutritional needs.

 

[Franthepotter]

I think I would say low carb rather than carb free as that is well nigh impossible, even a lettuce leaf has some carb.

OK so I'm getting carbs as am eating loads of varied veg. Fennel lettuce aubergine broccoli whatever I cam find. So no real need to eat bread or rice !

 

[Franthepotter]

How on earth could it be harmful? Sounds like they want you to eat more carbs now than at diagnosis.

They will probably quote lack of fibre as a reason for eating those carbs. But veggies, nuts and seeds have plenty and fibre doesn’t count towards any carb count anyway. The other argument is the brain needing 130g a day. But that is glucose not carbs needed. And glucose can be made from fat and protein if you were to actually eat zero carbs, and very few at all manage that. You’ll eat or make enough for your brain. Carbs are not essential for life. Protein and fat is.

Another argument is these lower GI carb slow or even out your blood glucose rises. They kept question here is compared to what? Yes it’ll be lower than simple nutritionally devoid sugars for example. But whole grain bread contains the same sort of carbs as white bread. And those carbs don’t disappear. They still turn to glucose and raise levels, even if by a bit less but for longer. The area under the curve remains the same. Better still not to raise it in the first place, assuming you still meet nutritional needs.

That's helpful thank you so much. When you do diet controlled are you using cgm? And do you have a limited diet??

 

[Dragonheart]

I mean I've been carb free now for as long as I remember ie no bread no rice etc. I don't miss it but the Desmond folks were not really happy. There were a few of us who were trying that approach.

I despair about some of these courses. Others allegedly providing the “same“ course have a much more enlightened and up to date view.

It’s crazy as the nhs also prescribe The low carb program in some areas and there are some highly awarded Dr‘s using the low carb approach. Dr David Unwin, the Freshwell project to name just two high profile ones as well as many many other gp’s.

 

[Dragonheart]

That's helpful thank you so much. When you do diet controlled are you using cgm? And do you have a limited diet??

I can’t afford cgm all the time and don’t find them especially accurate on numerical terms but did find the trends enlightening when I started out. I use a meter and very low carb/keto diets. It’s definitely different to look at on the plate but I don’t go hungry. I never much liked rice pasta potatoes etc anyway. I lost excess weight, achieved remission, vastly improved trig and HDL with little change to ldl but the important ratios improved a lot so all the most predictive numbers were better.

For success I replace the carbs with more meat/dairy/veg/salad and avoid processed stuffas a fundamental strategy. I avoid snacking between meals and rarely am hungry enough for more than two meals a day, sometimes just one.

 

[Franthepotter]

I despair about some of these courses. Others allegedly providing the “same“ course have a much more enlightened and up to date view.

It’s crazy as the nhs also prescribe The low carb program in some areas and there are some highly awarded Dr‘s using the low carb approach. Dr David Unwin, the Freshwell project to name just two high profile ones as well as many many other gp’s.

Well my husbands old friend is a gp abroad and he suggested it to me. Seemed sensible. No need to despair as some folks are starting from a different point. I'm just concerned about my cholesterol now so maybe that's something to watch.

 

[Franthepotter]

I can’t afford cgm all the time and don’t find them especially accurate on numerical terms but did find the trends enlightening when I started out. I use a meter and very low carb/keto diets. It’s definitely different to look at on the plate but I don’t go hungry. I never much liked rice pasta potatoes etc anyway. I lost excess weight, achieved remission, vastly improved trig and HDL with little change to ldl but the important ratios improved a lot so all the most predictive numbers were better.

For success I replace the carbs with more meat/dairy/veg/salad and avoid processed stuffas a fundamental strategy. I avoid snacking between meals and rarely am hungry enough for more than two meals a day, sometimes just one.

It sounds like my metabolism is very similar. I also am a lifelong active person. One question re meals. When you eat 2 meals is it like 11am amd 5pm?? I have a morning rise in my blood sugar after I get up. I wonder what is best way to level this out? PM activity or eating breakfast? Thx

 

[Leadinglights]

I used finger pricking to determine what combination of foods I could tolerate by testing before I ate and after 2 hours keeping my meal increases to less than 2mmol/l and certainly less than 8mmol/l, however I didn't start with an HbA1C as you and like you I was determined that I did not want to take metformin.
From doing those readings I settled on about 70g carbs per day.

 

[Leadinglights]

It sounds like my metabolism is very similar. I also am a lifelong active person. One question re meals. When you eat 2 meals is it like 11am amd 5pm?? I have a morning rise in my blood sugar after I get up. I wonder what is best way to level this out? PM activity or eating breakfast? Thx

The rise when you get up is very common and there is not a lot people can do unless they take insulin and it is just your liver being super helpful in releasing glucose to give you energy for the day and for your organs to function.

 

[harbottle]

The Desmond view was that eggs and olive oil were worse for me than bread. I don't buy that really. They seemed very worried about cholesterol levels almost at the expense of glucose.

I was going to be referred to DESMOND. I'm glad I didn't, as I probably would have just argued with them.
Sound like a bunch of idiots.