Carbs or Calories for newbies?

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

bulkbiker

Guest
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Last edited by a moderator:
bulkbiker said:
A pretty easy to follow diet for life without hunger though which may suit the OP more?
Click to expand...

Why force yourself into a life of misery looking for suitable foods, and missing out of social occasions, holidays, just because you can't eat the food? That's a nightmare to me.
I agree, if you can't actually give up continuously felling satiated, and are in fear of feeling hungry, your diet is better for you, even if you can be ok yoyoing on it as you have.
Possibly your experience of yoyo diets is personal, maybe some people don't, maybe some people do no matter what diet they prefer?
Personally, I wanted my life back, so I took it back.
Yes, it may have seemed more effort from your point of view, but I don't always want the easy compromise.
Put the effort in, got the results.
As the op is on the track to.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
travellor said:
missing out of social occasions, holidays, just because you can't eat the food?
Click to expand...
I've never once done any of that. I can always find food that fits what I want to eat.
travellor said:
a life of misery
Click to expand...
I eat different steaks 2-3 times a week... does that sound like "misery"?
 
childofthesea43 said:
automatically advocating low-carb to newly diagnosed T2s as something that’s bound to be necessary to get them into remission
Click to expand...
It has worked for me for the past 7 years so...
 
Exactly so, and perhaps of necessity? There will indeed be many who for all sorts of reasons are unable to renormalise after diagnosis. But for those who are able, the low-carb/high-carb thing is a non-issue.
 
One thing I would add is that, although I believe low-carbs is not inherently necessary for all – either to attain remission or to maintain it – I do personally prefer to stick to about 150g carbs daily, finding it very easy to implement as well as banishing hunger (owing to the satiating effect of compensatory fats). So my view of low(ish)-carbs is a positive one, even though I do not regard it as paramount.
 
childofthesea43 said:
Peoples’ preferences will vary and so will their metabolic limitations. I seem to have been one of those of whom Taylor’s team predicted that if one got rid of the visceral fat then that would very likely render one truly normalised, so that recovered pancreas and insulin sensitivity would deal entirely adequately with a ton of carbs if necessary. I normalised very contentedly on daily 60g of carbs for months, and there was no change when I doubled it for many more months then tripled it. HbA1c, fasting bg, postprandial elevations - all remained constant. So I think there is no call for automatically advocating low-carb to newly diagnosed T2s as something that’s bound to be necessary to get them into remission. It may or may not be.
Click to expand...
Oh I can eat the carbs and deal with the glucose spike - it gets stashed straight into fat, just as I have always seen for the whole of my life. The continued low carb is for the continued shape change and presumably weightloss as well - I was so stigmatized for putting on weight on so called healthy diets that I really can't stand to get on scales and so so only after assurances that I will not be told my weight. I think it is something like post traumatic stress disorder - HCPs can be absolutely vile when a patient protests that the treatment given out is not working.
To me, however, if a person cannot cope with carbs then reducing their intake is a logical suggestion to make. I mean - if someone had a broken bone would hitting it with a hammer several times a day help the healing?
 
Drummer said:
Oh I can eat the carbs and deal with the glucose spike - it gets stashed straight into fat, just as I have always seen for the whole of my life. The continued low carb is for the continued shape change and presumably weightloss as well - I was so stigmatized for putting on weight on so called healthy diets that I really can't stand to get on scales and so so only after assurances that I will not be told my weight. I think it is something like post traumatic stress disorder - HCPs can be absolutely vile when a patient protests that the treatment given out is not working.
To me, however, if a person cannot cope with carbs then reducing their intake is a logical suggestion to make. I mean - if someone had a broken bone would hitting it with a hammer several times a day help the healing?
Click to expand...
Yes of course, if one is carb-intolerant then eating low carb is sensible, or even essential. During my experiments in doubling and tripling my carbs I checked that this produced no significant spikes and I also rebalanced macronutrients to ensure unchanged total cals, and my weight remained stable.
 
Drummer said:
Oh I can eat the carbs and deal with the glucose spike - it gets stashed straight into fat, just as I have always seen for the whole of my life. The continued low carb is for the continued shape change and presumably weightloss as well - I was so stigmatized for putting on weight on so called healthy diets that I really can't stand to get on scales and so so only after assurances that I will not be told my weight. I think it is something like post traumatic stress disorder - HCPs can be absolutely vile when a patient protests that the treatment given out is not working.
To me, however, if a person cannot cope with carbs then reducing their intake is a logical suggestion to make. I mean - if someone had a broken bone would hitting it with a hammer several times a day help the healing?
Click to expand...

A broken bone is a reasonable analogy.

If you break your leg, why cut it off so you could never break it again?
Yes, it fixes the problem.
No leg, no problems from it.
But it limits you, no longer are buffets, noodle houses, fish and chip shops, Indian restaurants accessible, in fact an awful lot of places no longer accessible, or it's dinning in the ground floor only with a very small menu.

Or alternatively take the chance, work with the NHS, get the leg plastered, walk on crutches for a few months, accept you can't drive the car, take the hit for a short period.
Ok, there is no guarantee it with heal 100%, but it could do, there is no guarantee you won't break it again, but that's down to you.
And when it does heal properly, the effort is worth it, life is back to exactly where you were before you broke the leg.
You still have it, fixed, life goes on.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
childofthesea43 said:
One thing I would add is that, although I believe low-carbs is not inherently necessary for all – either to attain remission or to maintain it – I do personally prefer to stick to about 150g carbs daily, finding it very easy to implement as well as banishing hunger (owing to the satiating effect of compensatory fats). So my view of low(ish)-carbs is a positive one, even though I do not regard it as paramount.
Click to expand...

I can do.
I can go to 350g some days.
It depends on the mix.
I certainly cut down from more than that to lose weight.
The family box of donuts went!
I re-educated my taste buds away from sweet to savoury, so the odd steak bake and fast foods still appear.
Preferably complex rather than simple now though.
I'm still lower fat, the where the calories are, so I'd rather eat when hungry than try never to feel hungry.
In fact, I'm the opposite of Drummer, who always says she never feels the urge to eat, and often forgets to.
Hunger makes the food taste better, I would hate a life without feeling the need for food.
 
travellor said:
Why force yourself into a life of misery looking for suitable foods
Click to expand...
"Still eating a normal healthy Mediterranean diet nine years later 🙂"

So even you admit you don't eat whatever you want to?

"I can go to 350g some days."

" I certainly cut down from more than that to lose weight."

" I'd rather eat when hungry than try never to feel hungry."

Exactly what I do too..

" I would hate a life without feeling the need for food."

Nobody can do that.. extended fasting leads to hunger... I think you are misrepresenting what we are saying (probably deliberately).
 
@travellor - don't you have to go back on the low calorie diet from time to time to regain the benefits though?
I just prefer a steady state.
After lifelong problems with weight gain when eating carbs and being derided for perceived wrongdoing it is just too enjoyable to see the face of GP or nurse taking my blood pressure, reading my test results or checking my weight. I then make sure to tell them how I eat, and describe what Metformin and Atorvastatin did to me if they are not already trying to send me out of the room. It is a very gentle revenge considering the way I have been insulted and derided over the decades.
 
bulkbiker said:
"Still eating a normal healthy Mediterranean diet nine years later 🙂"

So even you admit you don't eat whatever you want to?..........................
Click to expand...

That's a very interesting comment.

Do you take everything completely literally?
Are you the same in spoken conversation , as well as written?
 
travellor said:
That's a very interesting comment.

Do you take everything completely literally?
Are you the same in spoken conversation , as well as written?
Click to expand...
Only when you make untrue claims..

" That just reminded me to amend my signature.
Nine years now since I reversed my diabetes, and still eating anything 🙂"
 
Drummer said:
@travellor - don't you have to go back on the low calorie diet from time to time to regain the benefits though?
I just prefer a steady state.
After lifelong problems with weight gain when eating carbs and being derided for perceived wrongdoing it is just too enjoyable to see the face of GP or nurse taking my blood pressure, reading my test results or checking my weight. I then make sure to tell them how I eat, and describe what Metformin and Atorvastatin did to me if they are not already trying to send me out of the room. It is a very gentle revenge considering the way I have been insulted and derided over the decades.
Click to expand...

Nope I go on a low calorie diet to lose weight.
As I have said many times, I have a normal life.
Some days I eat more, some days I eat less.

I travel, I eat local food, I drink local beers and spirits.
Over the year, I have definitely enjoyed

Christmas in Budapest over the end of last year, then
Malaga
Abba in London
Lisbon
Nunsmere Hall
Dublin
Christmas at Leominster

We've took the motorhome out, and had breaks at
Norfolk
Farndon
Bridlington
Coningsby
Clumber Park
Chatsworth
Chatsworth Christmas Market

(and obviously. a special mention in December for the Greggs Festive Bake, anywhere)

I've always said I'll rob Peter to pay Paul, so I can happily overindulge, they simply pull it back in.
I can't see the point of punishing myself by adhering rigidly to a self imposed fiction that I can't have any slack.
The world, when you get out there is made of carbs, and I intend to enjoy them both.

So long as all my bloods are ok, my diabetes stays reversed, I am definitely going to use the wriggle room I created for myself to enjoy life.
That was always my intention, and why I made the effort to reverse diabetes, not mask it by simply controlling my BG with diet control.

Last year were local and European trips, now covid lockdown has gone worldwide, this year we intend to travel further, so even more literal bites of the cherry.

As to proving myself or getting revenge on my healthcare team, I don't need to, I'm in a good place.
 
bulkbiker said:
Only when you make untrue claims..

" That just reminded me to amend my signature.
Nine years now since I reversed my diabetes, and still eating anything 🙂"
Click to expand...

Well, if you want to order me a few pints and a meal from Weatherspoon's I'll amend the signature for you?
You can do it online.
The curry and rice would be good. (with garlic naan bread and poppadums please)
 
travellor said:
Well, if you want to order me a few pints and a meal from Weatherspoon's I'll amend the signature for you?
You can do it online.
The curry and rice would be good. (with garlic naan bread and poppadums please)
Click to expand...
No thanks but I'm rather interested.. what do you actually eat

A " a normal healthy Mediterranean diet" or "anything" because the two are certainly not the same.
 
I think @travellor has been fairly clear - a med diet in general but will eat anything that’s available when travelling or going out without affecting blood sugar. But a general med diet to maintain weight at a good level.

I don’t whether you are deliberately trolling or just being obtuse.

You are simply inventing claims that a med diet and eating anything were claimed To be the same thing. Ie a straw man.
 
travellor said:
Nope I go on a low calorie diet to lose weight.
As I have said many times, I have a normal life.
Some days I eat more, some days I eat less.

I travel, I eat local food, I drink local beers and spirits.
Over the year, I have definitely enjoyed

Christmas in Budapest over the end of last year, then
Malaga
Abba in London
Lisbon
Nunsmere Hall
Dublin
Christmas at Leominster

We've took the motorhome out, and had breaks at
Norfolk
Farndon
Bridlington
Coningsby
Clumber Park
Chatsworth
Chatsworth Christmas Market

(and obviously. a special mention in December for the Greggs Festive Bake, anywhere)

I've always said I'll rob Peter to pay Paul, so I can happily overindulge, they simply pull it back in.
I can't see the point of punishing myself by adhering rigidly to a self imposed fiction that I can't have any slack.
The world, when you get out there is made of carbs, and I intend to enjoy them both.

So long as all my bloods are ok, my diabetes stays reversed, I am definitely going to use the wriggle room I created for myself to enjoy life.
That was always my intention, and why I made the effort to reverse diabetes, not mask it by simply controlling my BG with diet control.

Last year were local and European trips, now covid lockdown has gone worldwide, this year we intend to travel further, so even more literal bites of the cherry.

As to proving myself or getting revenge on my healthcare team, I don't need to, I'm in a good place.
Click to expand...
“ … why I made the effort to reverse diabetes, not mask it by simply controlling my BG with diet control.”
This is in my view the key distinction. There are very many who control their diabetes superbly for years by low-carbing alone, and most of them do so because they have to, to avoid damaging bg elevations. Their excellent HbA1c classifies them in what I view as a weak sense as being “in remission”. But they have not normalised their metabolism, since they cannot process normal carb levels. Their underlying pathology remains uncorrected and in time may take a nose-dive for the worse as the beta cells become gradually stressed to exhaustion by the visceral fat burden. These people are still diabetic and, as you say, are just masking that fact by not throwing the fuel on the fire. Underneath, that fire is still smouldering away. All this is in contrast to those who clear that fat away, recover their normal metabolic capabilities and are then, in Taylor’s words, “no longer diabetic”. For myself I would hate to be in the state where I was forced to live like a ruminant in the field or sit gnawing fatty meats pretending to be a caveman. But it has to be accepted that many have to do just that because, for whatever reason, they cannot or will not normalise their condition.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top