can’t cope anymore

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Hello there! Thanks for the reply, my next appointment with the diabetic doctor is in March I believe (it was supposed to be last March but it got cancelled because of Covid and it’s probably going to get cancelled again this year too) I’m planning on mentioning a pump, I like the idea of one without the wires more as I’m quite squeamish in terms of those types of things but we shall see what they say, I googled it and it said that there were essentially rules you have to meet in order to get it and I don’t really fit the criteria. In terms of my long acting insulin I used to be on Lantus all the time & would hypo like no tomorrow (still with the same symptoms I have now) and I switched to tresiba last year and I still feel awful. They say I’m on the right amount as I try to only eat once a day to avoid symptoms and the bloods stay in range / don’t go high or low whilst fasting so they say the background is fine. However, I may need more if I actually eat, it’s probably just staying ok because I have to starve myself to avoid feeling ill.
Hi Whitney,
You're not alone. I've had a similar dismissive, unprofessional, clock watchers, response too from the very people who are supposed to be there to help you.

Can I make a suggestion. Have you tried eating a small amount inc say 20g carbs without taking any bolus insulin? What happens (besides the rise in blood sugar)? Just as a one off experiment. If there is no reaction, then that should tell you something.

Also yes, beans do have carbs and need to be bolused for, dafne have been saying you dont need to bolus for beans for years, so wrong. That's the experts for you.

Also, what does it matter to them what insulin you use? What difference would it make to their lives? If you need a different insulin, an animal based one like Inka mentioned, why shouldn't you try it? What's the big deal? They behave like prison wardens. Luckily, I moved authority and found completely the opposite attitude, much better.

Be strong, you can get this sorted!

We need a wholesale change in attitude, training, from those that are there to listen, help and advise.
 
I’m not a naturally forward person, but I’ve found that sometimes I’ve had to ‘tell’ rather than ‘ask’. @Whitney Queen Im presuming you’re female? Never underestimate how much that and being younger can affect how others speak to you and treat you.

So, if you want to try animal insulin, don’t ask - tell them. When they see you’re serious and won’t be dissuaded, they’ll listen. X
 
@Whitney Queen I do hope you get your appointment in March but as you say it might get cancelled again. Have you thought about making a list of what you want to ask/say when you get there? Throw it all down then take time to prioritise and fine tune it using bullet points. If your appointment did get cancelled again you can ask if you can email your list to the Consultant
 
Just ring the clinic up and ask for the consultant's email address.
 
Had my coeliac disease and various other things like thyroid checked a few months ago maybe 6 months ago now and nothing came up. I actually tried having a week off gluten however I still felt exactly the same after eating things like gluten free bread etc so I gave up and just started eating it again. In terms of vitamins I’m predicting they were checked in the same test. It’s just horrible how I’ve been feeling this awful for four years and I’m no closer to finding out what’s wrong. The symptoms only started 4 years ago as soon as I left hospital after being In ketoacidosis / first diagnosed. As soon as I got home and started eating for myself and injecting I was experiencing them, every year I see the diabetic doctor and I say the same thing when he asks how my diabetes is going “I feel ill everyday so much so that I can’t work” it would be weird how a food intolerance suddenly started as well as diabetes? I asked about food intolerances and they said it wasn’t simple to test and I’ve had no advice from anyone on how to go about trying to figure it out.

The thing about coeliac antibodies is their absences does not discount coeliac disease. It just means no antibodies were found. (Just as it is with T1.)

A week off gluten is not nearly long enough to tell if being gluten free helps. It needs to be several weeks - more like 3 months minimum. As someone who lives a strictly gluten-free lifestyle, I know it's not easy. That dratted gluten seems to be everywhere. I mean; who would have thought Cola drinks and Worcestershire sauce would be culprits?

As an aside, the thyroid testing done routinely is judged against a very wide range of "normal", usually up to a TSH of 5, and no treatment considered until a TSH of 10 is breeched. Various papers out there suggest a person with a truly healthy thyroid would be seeing a TSH of 2 or less.

Your ketoacidosis would be a dreadful assault on your body, and nobody here can tell if the strain of it caused other changes within your body.

Having done a massive amount of reading in my journey (hate that description) with diabetes, then latterly discovering the gluten issues and hypothyroidism, I now accept that our metabolic processes are extremely complex, with several co-dependencies to work efficiently. Any of those co-dependencies being out of whack can cause metabolic mayhem.

Finally, I note you saying things were "OK" and you are assuming things have been checked. Personally, I find it more comforting to know my test results as the numbers are ranges. Then I can do a bit of background reading to understand whether my "In range" reading is almost out of range, or very good, or even not tested at all.

I do hope you get to the bottom of things
 
Really sorry that you still haven’t been able to find any answers, and don’t seem to be getting much by way of help from the (probably mystified) HCPs @Whitney Queen :(

Hope you can either get access to animal insulin to try (I agree you may have to be quite assertive to access this)... or possibly try gluten-free for a longer period?

We are rooting for you in the meantime.
 
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The thing about coeliac antibodies is their absences does not discount coeliac disease. It just means no antibodies were found. (Just as it is with T1.)

A week off gluten is not nearly long enough to tell if being gluten free helps. It needs to be several weeks - more like 3 months minimum. As someone who lives a strictly gluten-free lifestyle, I know it's not easy. That dratted gluten seems to be everywhere. I mean; who would have thought Cola drinks and Worcestershire sauce would be culprits?

As an aside, the thyroid testing done routinely is judged against a very wide range of "normal", usually up to a TSH of 5, and no treatment considered until a TSH of 10 is breeched. Various papers out there suggest a person with a truly healthy thyroid would be seeing a TSH of 2 or less.

Your ketoacidosis would be a dreadful assault on your body, and nobody here can tell if the strain of it caused other changes within your body.

Having done a massive amount of reading in my journey (hate that description) with diabetes, then latterly discovering the gluten issues and hypothyroidism, I now accept that our metabolic processes are extremely complex, with several co-dependencies to work efficiently. Any of those co-dependencies being out of whack can cause metabolic mayhem.

Finally, I note you saying things were "OK" and you are assuming things have been checked. Personally, I find it more comforting to know my test results as the numbers are ranges. Then I can do a bit of background reading to understand whether my "In range" reading is almost out of range, or very good, or even not tested at all.

I do hope you get to the bottom of things
I don’t have any of the digestion issues which are apparently common with coeliac, however, if no antibodies are being found how would they ever find out? I was thinking about ringing up the gp in regards to allergy testing do you think gluten can be tested for? Thanks!
 
I don’t have any of the digestion issues which are apparently common with coeliac, however, if no antibodies are being found how would they ever find out? I was thinking about ringing up the gp in regards to allergy testing do you think gluten can be tested for? Thanks!

There’s something called silent coeliac which is coeliac without the abdominal symptoms. That’s more common in Type 1s, I think. If you’ve been tested for coeliac and it’s been ruled out and done properly, you don’t have coeliac disease.

There’s also non-coeliac gluten sensitivity - that is a sensitivity to gluten in someone without coeliac. There’s also a sensitivity to wheat (wheat itself not the gluten). I think that’s what Andbreathe was talking about. There are also many more food sensitivities.

Amity had a really good idea above - eat what you ate when you took the Humalog and had your reaction BUT eat a small portion WITHOUT any insulin. That would show if it was the food. Eat it, wait for an hour or whatever to see if you have your reaction, then take your insulin to get your blood sugar down.
 
I don’t have any of the digestion issues which are apparently common with coeliac, however, if no antibodies are being found how would they ever find out? I was thinking about ringing up the gp in regards to allergy testing do you think gluten can be tested for? Thanks!
There’s something called silent coeliac which is coeliac without the abdominal symptoms. That’s more common in Type 1s, I think. If you’ve been tested for coeliac and it’s been ruled out and done properly, you don’t have coeliac disease.

There’s also non-coeliac gluten sensitivity - that is a sensitivity to gluten in someone without coeliac. There’s also a sensitivity to wheat (wheat itself not the gluten). I think that’s what Andbreathe was talking about. There are also many more food sensitivities.

Amity had a really good idea above - eat what you ate when you took the Humalog and had your reaction BUT eat a small portion WITHOUT any insulin. That would show if it was the food. Eat it, wait for an hour or whatever to see if you have your reaction, then take your insulin to get your blood sugar down.
To be honest, I wasn't being specific in terms the variant of food intolerance/sensitivity that might be in play here, although gluten is way more common that we often consider (until we talk to others about it).

I had no apparent gut issues before going GF. I went GF as a result of seeing an Endo about something else. When he did mine and my family's medical history he asked which of the autoimmune conditions I had reeled off I had. My answer was none.

Having scoffed at my response I left his consulting room with a list of about 40 (literally) blood tests to be done, covering all manner of nasties, but his bets were on coeliac and Hashimoto's Disease, with a potential for Rhuematoid Arthritis thrown in for (not so) good measure.

Nope. Not me!

It had been agreed I would not likely test Coeliac positive because I was already eating a low carb lifestyle, and he did not recommend I carbed up prior to the test. I declined a diagnostic colonoscopy as I felt there was nothing amiss in that region. (A colonoscopy is the secondary Coeliac diagnostic tool.)

The Endo did however suggest I adopt a gluten-free lifestyle as "people with AI conditions do well on it". I have no AI, but he seemed certain, so I gave it a whirl. I was warned that the trial should be 6 months of strict adherence.

Some months into that trial I inadvertently ate gluten and got the symptoms described. Clearly, my body had been fighting the intolerance for a while and had relaxed its defences when I was eating none. Just for completeness, I still don't think I have coeliac disease, but my body sure as heck can't handle gluten well at all.

Please don't reject the potential for food intolerances, bearing in mind your symptoms do relate to eating. I'm certainly not suggesting you stop trying to try other insulins, but asking that you keep a really open mind.

In your shoes, I'd continue requesting other insulins, and if/when challenged, ask the medic to explain why they are declining, then do your own reading to understand if it's a reasonable challenge, and if so, that allows you to move onto another insulin, or another tack.

Bearing in mind how long it takes us to rib our systems of gluten, I would go back to living gluten free, and pledge to give it 3 months absolute, absolute minimum. Unfortunately, unlike many intolerances, such as lactose, reducing, or cutting down isn't enough. It has to be strictly zero.

Whilst I am usually a strong advocate of making one change at a time, bearing in mind the length of the gluten-free trial, I would accept looking at both potentials together.

Finally, if you are not already, I would suggest you keep a very, very details food and drink diary. That would include what you eat at every meal - absolutely everything, how much insulin you used to deal with it, when you injected (pre-bolus, split bolus or whatever), what your blood glucose looked like before eating/injecting, and after eating. Additionally, how you felt afterwards. If you feel bad afterwards, note how long after eating and score how bad you feel on a 0-10. 0 being no issues or symptoms to 10 being being bedbound, seeking medical assistance.

Using that, you may see some trends emerging. It is a total pain to be working at that level of granularity, but you will build up a lot of data which may not at first inform you of anything, but could be the key to all of this.

Sometimes when we know what's wrong it's hard to open our minds to other options, but sometimes we have to change course a bit, when we are travelling down repeated dead-end alleyways.

I do hope you get to the bottom of it all.
 
I don’t have any of the digestion issues which are apparently common with coeliac, however, if no antibodies are being found how would they ever find out? I was thinking about ringing up the gp in regards to allergy testing do you think gluten can be tested for? Thanks!
Hi Whitney Queen,

Did you try my suggestion of eating a smaller meal without taking any insulin? What happened?
 
It will be really interesting to see what happens @Whitney Queen - and could lead you to a series of further experiments based on whether or not you get the tiredness symptoms. Let us know how you get on 🙂
 
Hi @Whitney Queen Hope you’re feeling ok.

Did you get a chance to do @Amity Island ’s experiment yet? It would give useful evidence and build a better picture of what the problem is.
Hello! Yes I did! I tried it with eggs, sausage, black pudding, potato scone, square sausage and baked beans. Within about twenty mins of eating I got the feeling of needing to stretch my entire body / yawning I usually get. It wasn’t the worst I’ve experienced but still not ideal.
 
Hello! Yes I did! I tried it with eggs, sausage, black pudding, potato scone, square sausage and baked beans. Within about twenty mins of eating I got the feeling of needing to stretch my entire body / yawning I usually get. It wasn’t the worst I’ve experienced but still not ideal.

How many grams of carb do you reckon was in your meal you describe above? I'm not sure how close that comes to @Amity Island 's suggestion of about 20gr carb?
 
How many grams of carb do you reckon was in your meal you describe above? I'm not sure how close that comes to @Amity Island 's suggestion of about 20gr carb?
Hello! Yes it’s probably slightly over! The beans were about a quarter of a tin so probably around 12g, the potato scone 12g, the black pudding around 10g as well the square sausage with about the same! So probably all in all about 40g, made me feel weaker as time went on then about an hour in I injected and still felt unwell weak legs and arms.
 
Hello! Yes I did! I tried it with eggs, sausage, black pudding, potato scone, square sausage and baked beans. Within about twenty mins of eating I got the feeling of needing to stretch my entire body / yawning I usually get. It wasn’t the worst I’ve experienced but still not ideal.

Have you ever kept a diary of your reactions? I don’t mean anything complicated - just simple eg day, time, what you ate/injected, and a ‘score’ for your reaction plus Notes of anything special or noticeable, e.g “lips really swelled this time”, or “had to go to bed for an hour’s nap”, etc etc.

I had an unresolved medical problem (nothing to do with diabetes) and my diary allowed me to identify it as related to hormones, and to see how it gradually improved with treatment. So it’s something I’d recommend. You could even score each individual symptom or the major ones at least.

I think it will take a little detective work and more experimentation to work out what’s causing this, but I do think you’ll work it out. 🙂
 
Hello! Yes it’s probably slightly over! The beans were about a quarter of a tin so probably around 12g, the potato scone 12g, the black pudding around 10g as well the square sausage with about the same! So probably all in all about 40g, made me feel weaker as time went on then about an hour in I injected and still felt unwell weak legs and arms.
Hi Whitney,

What's your feeling on it (your experiment)? Do you think it's something you are eating that's making you unwell? If you decide to give it another try, personally, I would limit it to no more than 20g of carbs, because if 10g gives a rise in blood sugar of say 3mmol, 20g would give a rise of 6mmol, which would be a more manageable target (11mmol) to correct afterwards, provided blood sugars are around 5mmol when started. OR you could try and walk the blood sugar off? and not have to take any insulin at all for that meal?

If it is the food that is causing you to feel unwell, @Inka mentioned about a food diary, eliminating different foods etc
 
Have you ever kept a diary of your reactions? I don’t mean anything complicated - just simple eg day, time, what you ate/injected, and a ‘score’ for your reaction plus Notes of anything special or noticeable, e.g “lips really swelled this time”, or “had to go to bed for an hour’s nap”, etc etc.

I had an unresolved medical problem (nothing to do with diabetes) and my diary allowed me to identify it as related to hormones, and to see how it gradually improved with treatment. So it’s something I’d recommend. You could even score each individual symptom or the major ones at least.

I think it will take a little detective work and more experimentation to work out what’s causing this, but I do think you’ll work it out. 🙂
I’ve started taking a diary of my blood sugars exactly what I’m eating, carb content and symptoms! So far I’ve seen sausages, Yorkshire puddings, mashed root veg and cheesy broccolli forced me to have a nap for an hour or more. I’ve had melon, yogurt and banana muffins to cause me to nap for several hours and now the stuff from the experiment which caused me to have weak arms and legs! Some days in the diary I haven’t had as bad symptoms these 3 are just the major days, I’m going to try continue it for a while and see what they all have in common. Fingers crossed! I had to apply for personal independence payment today as I can’t even imagine working full time feeling this way!
 
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