A Question for T2's from a T1 please

[harbottle]

Wow! there's another question for another discussion. If those diagnosed are not even told about testing, then they can't even make an informed decision to test or not. Got to say, i'm very suprised by some of the points raised in this thread about availability and advice on testing.

"You're diabetic, don't eat chips." is all the advice I got in a rushed phone call. I suspect in her mind she added 'ya fat B****D' but didn't say it.

I know someone who was told not to do the Newcastle diet.

Although if it were me, I would have just done it anyway.

 

[Amity Island]

"You're diabetic, don't eat chips." is all the advice I got in a rushed phone call. I suspect in her mind she added 'ya fat B****D' but didn't say it.

I know someone who was told not to do the Newcastle diet.

Although if it were me, I would have just done it anyway.

The first "advice" I was given was, now you are diagnosed with diabetes you have the same chance of having a heart attack as someone 20 years older with weight issues.

I've never forgotten that "advice" to this day. It really highlighted to me the mindset of those working in healthcare. It was said with pride, like they were doing me a favour letting me know my increased chances of related disease.

 

[Sarahp]

My brother, T2, was distinctly advised to use the sides of fingers and avoid fingertips BECAUSE we all need the sensitivity of our fingertipsfor everyday sensitivity and dexterity.

If HCPs have somehow lost sight of that fairly obvious rationale, this is a huge shame - and something of a disgrace if true. But at the very least we can quietly explain and educate those who might have been misled.

Would you believe I have never in 24 years been told to test on the sides of my fingers and use the pads of my fingers as my raynards is enough of a battle to get blood so I go for any spot that will bleed now. Have neuropathy in my fingers too so doubt at this stage that it will make much difference if I stop now.
For years the neuropathy was blamed on anxiety and my past experience of trauma and denied checks on this basis despite being diabetic and having major other complications, sad we are left like this.

 

[Josh DUK]

Hello everyone,

If you could please be respectful of other peoples views.

 

[RichardsUsername]

Just to throw in there. I actually prefer to do the research myself for various reasons. And I have an Internet connection, which makes me an expert. No joke.

 

[Drummer]

Being left handed I stab my right hand for testing, and read braille with my left hand, as I detected the dots on the 10 and 20 pound notes with no problem, I think it is safe for me to go on testing.

 

[RichardsUsername]

What if you get arrested and the police want to take your prints? Something to consider.

 

[Drummer]

What if you get arrested and the police want to take your prints? Something to consider.

All fingers show clear prints - the only imperfection being the result of picking blackberries earlier this week.

 

[RichardsUsername]

All fingers show clear prints - the only imperfection being the result of picking blackberries earlier this week.

The police will be very happy. I hear they like blackberries also.

 

[helli]

What if you get arrested and the police want to take your prints? Something to consider.

I wondered this. Not that the police have ever taken my fingerprint or a concern about finger pricking.
A few years ago, I caught my finger in a car door. As a result, I have a deep scar across the pad of one finger. My finger print is definitely different to what it was before the accident. In my experience, finger prints can change.

 

[Dragonheart]

I wondered this. Not that the police have ever taken my fingerprint or a concern about finger pricking.
A few years ago, I caught my finger in a car door. As a result, I have a deep scar across the pad of one finger. My finger print is definitely different to what it was before the accident. In my experience, finger prints can change.

What if you get arrested and the police want to take your prints? Something to consider.

They look for multiple points of identification in fingerprints. A new scar in the middle for example would still leave plenty of points untouched to compare against earlier prints. And the scar itself would become a new one to compare against crime scenes should you be apprehended for other reasons or future crimes. And then there’s still all the other means of identification and evidence to worry about. I’m not sure regular testers should head into a life of crime too confidently just yet. And afaik scars are the only way fingerprints change over time.

 

[rebrascora]

My finger prints are almost completely worn off but not from finger pricking but from having very poor skin and using steroid creams for a lot of years when I was younger. As a retired Police officer who has had their prints taken I know that they would have great difficulty trying to match my prints as most of the pads are completely worn with partially peeling top layer of skin. You would really struggle to convict me of a crime from finger prints but probably very easy from DNA, because my dry skin peels and sheds very easily. Fingerprints are mostly old hat these days as your average burgler etc is careful not to leave prints. Preventing the shed of DNA at a scene is much harder.

 

[RichardsUsername]

@helli
@HSSS
Thanks both.
Also @rebrascora

 

[rebrascora]

I have to say that I have lost a lot of sensitivity with the hardening of my skin and loss of prints, so I would really struggle with Braile anyway, but nothing to do with my diabetes. I can however prick the same finger 20 times in a day and it not get sore although I will feel the prick of the lancet each time and sometimes it will hurt. Thankfully my hands are almost always warm and I bleed really well so never have problems getting blood.
Tonight I have very numb tingly fingers because I was pulling nettles today and the fingers on my gloves had worn through! 🙄

 

[Nayshiftin]

Same here have to self-fund. I want to know and it's helped get my blood sugar down. I ignored it recently and ate what I liked which was possibly like a suicide mission to others. My blood sugar escalated to having an Hb A1c to 108 so it was foolish.
My strips are £20 in Boots less on Amazon or if on promotion. I look at this as that would be four pints in a pub . less than a car full of petrol and maybe cheaper than a takeaway. The latter is definitely not diabetic-friendly.
What I gain is knowing my blood sugar level. Their argument is well you are not taking insulin so unlikely to go hypo or need help as urgently as a type 1. It helps too as I now know I can eat less of something like 25g of porridge made with water and not get a spike. I can also have half a pot of yoghurt instead of a full pot. Not only does not getting spikes keep blood sugar down it helps weight loss and all that is better for health.
My cousin is type two and on insulin gets strips so maybe the criteria for them.
My fingers heal very quickly from pinpricks and I certainly still have feeling in them. He will get eye checks yearly and unless his diabetes causes him problems blindness should be prevented by looking after his blood sugars.
He may go blind from other causes but pricking his fingers is unlikely to stop him reading Braille. It is more likely he will get an aid to read text than learn Braille unless he is blind at present. Since modern equipment has been more technical and easily provided the older you get a diagnosis the less likely that braille will be taught. Even my blind friends were using other measures. In fact, most of the time the voice that read to them spoke so fast I really struggled to hear it and they were far more efficient that way than reading or typing braille. He did use his machine whilst out but inside he did not. We did type out labels but he was better than I. He went to Waverley school and to be honest made me embarrassed he was higher educated than I can ever imagine. So that threat came from an ignorant worker. One thing I will say he has little feeling in his fingers as one habit he had to see where the coffee came to the top of the mug was to dip his finger into it. Now black scolding coffee I could not have coped with that.
Sorry, I am up in the night really going on but its a matter of choice is it not. I know Id rather even have a daily base than go along in the dark.

 

[harbottle]

It was only recently that studies determined that keeping BG under control lead to better outcomes with diabetic side effects... prior to that they thought just being T2 diabetic meant problems would happen regardless of glucose levels. (It was a large study, UKPDS, that aimed to keep T2s with fasting BG < 6.0 using whatever means possible.) This study only finished a decade or so ago, so many GPs may not be aware of it and still think the side effects will just happen regardless of glucose control.

Implications of the United Kingdom Prospective Diabetes Study

Diabetes is a metabolic disorder primarily characterized by elevated blood glucose levels and by microvascular and cardiovascular complications that substa

diabetesjournals.org

This same study also showed that even with good control the condition got worse over the years and required more treatment (Which the Newcastle work seems to show, at least for some people, may not be the case.)

I've criticised my GP for the way I was told, but along with 'don't eat chips' she did say 'try to lose some weight as some work has shown it can be improved with weight loss.'

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I think at least some of this comes down to some of the findings of trials and studies.

As I recall there were a number of studies by Farmer et al that failed to find improvements in BG outcomes between people with T2 (not on hypo-inducing meds) who monitored BG and those who didn’t. T2s who tested also found the process painful, inconvenient, and it was depressing seeing high results “they could do nothing about” (because if I remember right the protocol of the study insisted on ‘adherence’ - that they kept eating their proscribed diet, and did not deviate from it).

This is quite different to folks here who use SMBG to develop and refine their eating plan IMO. Of course it would be distressing to carefully follow the meals and foods you had been told to eat only to get results that showed you were failing (because the menu didn’t suit you as an individual)!

Plus the Farmer et al results did show that there was a ‘subset’ of people with T2 for whom a BG monitor was very helpful.

It just turns out from experiences on the forum, that the ‘subset’ seems to be pretty large, if people are encouraged to use their results to make positive changes to their individual meal plan. 🙂

 

[Dragonheart]

I think at least some of this comes down to some of the findings of trials and studies.

As I recall there were a number of studies by Farmer et al that failed to find improvements in BG outcomes between people with T2 (not on hypo-inducing meds) who monitored BG and those who didn’t. T2s who tested also found the process painful, inconvenient, and it was depressing seeing high results “they could do nothing about” (because if I remember right the protocol of the study insisted on ‘adherence’ - that they kept eating their proscribed diet, and did not deviate from it).

This is quite different to folks here who use SMBG to develop and refine their eating plan IMO. Of course it would be distressing to carefully follow the meals and foods you had been told to eat only to get results that showed you were failing (because the menu didn’t suit you as an individual)!

Plus the Farmer et al results did show that there was a ‘subset’ of people with T2 for whom a BG monitor was very helpful.

It just turns out from experiences on the forum, that the ‘subset’ seems to be pretty large, if people are encouraged to use their results to make positive changes to their individual meal plan. 🙂

It does indeed depend hugely on when you test and what you do with the data. So the problem there seemed to lack of knowledge how to test in type 2 as opposed to how to test in type 1/insulin users

 

[helli]

It does indeed depend hugely on when you test and what you do with the data. So the problem there seemed to lack of knowledge how to test in type 2 as opposed to how to test in type 1/insulin users

I would not consider people with Type 1 much different.
We have the means to test (and now with Libre) but not given much information about how to interpret the results. It is all about immediate reaction - take more insulin if high; take hypo treatment if low.
There is much more we can do such as adjusting our insulin dose amount and timing.

I did the local equivalent of DAFNE before the advent of Libre so things may have changed. At the time, it was mostly around how to calculate insulin dose with the insulin to carb ratio we have. There were small modules on exercise and alcohol but little guidance on adjusting doses when doing so ... more about the effects they can have.
This may have been due to the class - the course was run as one evening per week with homework between the lessons. There were only two of us who did the homework to exercise and measure BG. The other walked to the supermarket for the first time in years.

Sorry, I have rambled a bit. My main point is that we have data but not shown how to convert that data into "actionable insights".

 

[PattiEvans]

It's been an issue as long as I've been dxed (1992) and repeatedly discussed on all the Groups. Several petitions about it have been and gone ( ask Patti Evans) . It's Just a short sighted false economy - short term savings preferred over over long term gain. Fortunately most T2s are prescribed smbg because of various clauses ( such as the 40% of T2s on insulin and the others on meds that might cause hypos).

Gosh I remember writing at least one. The disappointing response by the government was to more or less say it wasn't up to them. FWIW the GP's nurse at my surgery gives all the newly diagnosed a test kit and instructions on how/when to test in order to work out the best diet for themselves. She invited me to work with her and I produced a chart of "foods you can eat freely" etc etc (see attached) however, due to the government healthy eating advice at the time it was unfortunately dumbed down a fair bit. HOwever, it was displayed on the notice board. The surgery then moved to new premises with no noticeboards.