The Truth About Carbs

[Deleted member 21371]

Gosh, Trevellor I wasn't aware that you knew me well enough to tell me what my intentions are or what I am thinking. You seem to be framing and answering your opinion, not mine

The trainer was advocating a diet plan to address my own and others obesity, which from her own BMI she clearly didn't follow or it doesn't work. It also wasn't working for the other two people who had been following the advice after many years of following the standard diet advice she was giving or myself, whose carb overeating, sedentary habits have led to high bg glucose and high blood pressure. The trainer didn't share the reasons for being overweight, other than she wasn't diabetic and I presume you have no special knowledge about her weight either? Personally, I think health professionals have to practice what they preach if they want people to take their advice seriously. I work in the health profession. I am also overweight. I know there are many reasons why people gain weight, the side effects of medication being just one and I wouldn't be prepared to defend an outdated diet plan that does not have good outcomes for people.

For those that have been on the course, you will be familiar with the food exercises and the sugar cubes, similar to what was shown on The Truth about Carbs show. I agree that baked potatoes are probably better than chips but at a substantial carb intake that is a substantial carb intake, especially if you have started the day with bread and jams albeit sugar free jam. Telling already fat people (me) to follow this advice goes against new medical opinion.

I described the trainer as " a very nice but very overweight nurse who probably did her training in the 50s" Travellor you came back with:

"Seriously, so, as a fat diabetic I couldn't tell you to low carb, as I'm fat so you judge me based solely on looks, and obviously if I wasn't the classic slim stereotype, I must know nothing about healthy eating??
Nope, you are fat shaming, based solely on how the person looks, with no idea why they are overweight, you have decided they simply overeat, and it can't be any other health issue.

And even worse, you actually had likes for de-humanising the nurse that was attempting to help you.

I would have thought as type 2's we get enough, "oh, you''re type 2 because you're fat, and you're fat because you eat too much"
But apparently if you put health professional in bold, it's ok to do the same to them?"

The two scenarios are not comparable. My statement was contextual and I didn't describe her as fat. I am challenging the logic and the advice and for the record I am more overweight that she was.

So, in summary, you're overweight working in the health profession, who can disparage diet advice from a less overweight health professional, based solely on her BMI, while advocating a much better diet?
And you really can't understand why I don't choose to simply call out all overweight health care professionals as a matter of course?

And as you said
"I have a problem with health professionals who dole out advice they are clearly not following themselves"

But, possibly "respect others" is good advice, and let's not simply rubbish low carb as well now if it's presented by anyone with a BMI that some of us don't find acceptable to speak to us about diets?
Personally, I can judge the information, not the shape of the messenger.

 

[Ruby/London]

Good for you. I am pleased you have a philosophy that works for you🙂

 

[Beck S]

I didn't realise until a while after diagnosis just how lucky I was to have the healthcare team around me who gave me the right advice to go forward. By the time I was invited onto a nutrition course, I was already on the low carb diet and it was working. Luckily, the course backed up what I'd already been doing, and having spoken to a couple of people who were there with me since, they're also finding good success. But I know people who live in the same healthcare area as me who've had abysmal advice - one was told that she wasn't going to be given a BG meter as she wasn't trained to use it and it would just make her diabetes worse anyway. I hope more programmes like this one go out and show the low carb diet as a positive way forward.

 

[Ruby/London]

I didn't realise until a while after diagnosis just how lucky I was to have the healthcare team around me who gave me the right advice to go forward. By the time I was invited onto a nutrition course, I was already on the low carb diet and it was working. Luckily, the course backed up what I'd already been doing, and having spoken to a couple of people who were there with me since, they're also finding good success. But I know people who live in the same healthcare area as me who've had abysmal advice - one was told that she wasn't going to be given a BG meter as she wasn't trained to use it and it would just make her diabetes worse anyway. I hope more programmes like this one go out and show the low carb diet as a positive way forward.

The course I attended was strong on medical information and quite positive about people self testing, although they did recommend urine testing, which from other information I have read may not be effective unless your bg is over a certain level.

Progressive as Dr Van Tulleken is, even he look astonished at the results of Dr Enwin's study.

I am off to research low carb bread making. Happy Sunday, folks🙂

 

[Bubbsie]

The course I attended was strong on medical information and quite positive about people self testing, although they did recommend urine testing, which from other information I have read may not be effective unless your bg is over a certain level.

Progressive as Dr Van Tulleken is, even he look astonished at the results of Dr Enwin's study.

I am off to research low carb bread making. Happy Sunday, folks🙂

Low carb baking is all good Ruby🙂

 

[New-journey]

The course I attended was strong on medical information and quite positive about people self testing, although they did recommend urine testing, which from other information I have read may not be effective unless your bg is over a certain level.

Progressive as Dr Van Tulleken is, even he look astonished at the results of Dr Enwin's study.

I am off to research low carb bread making. Happy Sunday, folks🙂

Enjoy your research and have a Happy Sunday 🙂

 

[Maz2]

I didn't realise until a while after diagnosis just how lucky I was to have the healthcare team around me who gave me the right advice to go forward. By the time I was invited onto a nutrition course, I was already on the low carb diet and it was working. Luckily, the course backed up what I'd already been doing, and having spoken to a couple of people who were there with me since, they're also finding good success. But I know people who live in the same healthcare area as me who've had abysmal advice - one was told that she wasn't going to be given a BG meter as she wasn't trained to use it and it would just make her diabetes worse anyway. I hope more programmes like this one go out and show the low carb diet as a positive way forward.

Cannot see how you need to be trained to use a BG meter. I use one and it is just straightforward. Cannot see how it makes diabetes worse. I would have thought if you knew what certain foods did so that you could adjust portions, cut down, cut off, whatever the person concerned prefers, it could improve things rather than worsen them.

 

[Maz2]

In any other context I wouldn't comment on people's weight either. I work in mental health and know that weight is a complex issue, at either end of the spectrum.

I have just finished watching The Truth about Carbs and believe it is a public education in itself. I have watched a couple of the health and diet programmes made by this doctor, one involving his identical twin, also a doctor, on the effect of fat and sugar and, as much as I would like to ignore it, the evidence is compelling. I almost cheered when the said the low carb programme was going to be rolled out to other GPs across the country. Hopefully, the dietary element of DESMOND will be altered to reflect the new knowledge.

I was very pleased to hear that too. Really hope the advice is going to be altered.

A friend of mine is pre-diabetic and he told me last night he is on a course and, whilst some of it sounded very sensible, he also said he is eating low fat everything. Another member of our party said low fat foods sometimes have more sugar and carbs in than higher fat ones, so I think the message is slowly getting through. Reading the labels is best I think.

 

[Blue flash]

Just watched, most of what was said I've gained from this forum already.

One thing never read about before was resistance starch/fibre the only products mentioned seemed be wholesale bread and rye bread (pumpernickel rolls from Morrison my current choice)

Is resistance fibre something we should be concerned about to eat more of? Did bit Google only other sources seemed be high carbs ie. raw potato flour, and hi-maize flour.

Seems this fibre helps keep feeling full for longer, wonder if anyone has any experience more resistant fibre diet

 

[Mark Parrott]

Just watched, most of what was said I've gained from this forum already.

One thing never read about before was resistance starch/fibre the only products mentioned seemed be wholesale bread

Wholesale bread? So as long as we buy bread in bulk we will be ok. Seriously though, most wholemeal bread (which I know you really meant) is highly processed & uses some white flour too. I tried a slice of pumpernickel bread & I spiked through the roof! It was nice though.

 

[Ruby/London]

I applied the reheat principles to two medium roast potatoes yesterday - spiked at 10.4 within 2 hours and then crashed 2.5 before bedtime. ....Won't be doing that again.

I am doing really well with the Peter's Yard crispbreads. I've put some protein bread in the freezer, so might get better results with that.

 

[Bubbsie]

I think we need to consider that a big part of the problem is our GP's do not specialise in diabetes management unless it happens to be their 'thing'...they are general practitioners & will refer onwards for specialist support... .often relying on their DSN's but not every surgery has one...then it will be pot luck which approach they take...I have heard of several proactive ones (DSN's & GP's) who do support & advocate LCHF diets for type 2's...testing for T 2's...there are many more who do not...until we have a consistent approach to the management of type 2 the problems will persist...consideration of alternative approaches to our diet...the DESMOND course wasn't beneficial for me & many other members here...I have heard the XPERT course which includes T1 & T2 is better...so continuity is what we should be aiming for... some assessment of how/what these courses offer us...a little consumer research/satisfaction isn't too much to ask for...if you are fortunate enough to be directed to a forum that will offer good support & advice that can be sheer luck...surely we shouldn't have to rely on good luck to manage our diabetes.

 

[Sally71]

Cannot see how you need to be trained to use a BG meter. I use one and it is just straightforward. Cannot see how it makes diabetes worse. I would have thought if you knew what certain foods did so that you could adjust portions, cut down, cut off, whatever the person concerned prefers, it could improve things rather than worsen them.

You don't need training to use a meter, it takes all of about 2 minutes to be shown how to use one. And of course it won't make diabetes worse, I think some healthcare people just trot out rubbish like that because either a) they don't know much about it themselves, or b) they are trying to avoid having to prescribe loads of expensive strips to lots of people. Which as we all know is a false economy but they don't seem to see that, they are only interested in keeping costs down now. I've also heard the excuse that "it will make you stressed/depressed" etc - well there might be a grain of truth in that, when my daughter was first diagnosed I used to get stressed every time she got a reading in the teens (!); but over time of course you learn to accept that occasionally things do go wrong, if you know why you can learn how to handle it better next time (which of course will help you to improve your diabetes management, not make it worse!), but sometimes it's just the diabetes fairy having a bit of fun and you just have to shrug your shoulders and carry on.

I'd actually feel quite insulted if I was a T2 getting told some of these reasons why I couldn't have a meter; anyone on insulin or other hypo-inducing meds has to learn pdq how to test their blood and what to do with the results; we all managed ok, therefore such excuses rather imply that T2s don't have a brain if they couldn't cope or couldn't make blood testing work for them! Anyone can do it if they are given the right advice 🙄

 

[Bubbsie]

You don't need training to use a meter, it takes all of about 2 minutes to be shown how to use one. And of course it won't make diabetes worse, I think some healthcare people just trot out rubbish like that because either a) they don't know much about it themselves, or b) they are trying to avoid having to prescribe loads of expensive strips to lots of people. Which as we all know is a false economy but they don't seem to see that, they are only interested in keeping costs down now. I've also heard the excuse that "it will make you stressed/depressed" etc - well there might be a grain of truth in that, when my daughter was first diagnosed I used to get stressed every time she got a reading in the teens (!); but over time of course you learn to accept that occasionally things do go wrong, if you know why you can learn how to handle it better next time (which of course will help you to improve your diabetes management, not make it worse!), but sometimes it's just the diabetes fairy having a bit of fun and you just have to shrug your shoulders and carry on.

I'd actually feel quite insulted if I was a T2 getting told some of these reasons why I couldn't have a meter; anyone on insulin or other hypo-inducing meds has to learn pdq how to test their blood and what to do with the results; we all managed ok, therefore such excuses rather imply that T2s don't have a brain if they couldn't cope or couldn't make blood testing work for them! Anyone can do it if they are given the right advice 🙄

Its all about the money Sally...nothing more...however any excuse is put forward to not prescribe them for T2's non-dependent on hypo meds...after all it wouldn't look good if surgeries...GP's or DSN's were to say no we won't give them to you because we cannot justify the cost...or we don't consider you're worth the investment.

 

[Sally71]

I agree @Bubbsie - but either way it's insulting and not in the patient's best interests
And when you are newly diagnosed you probably don't know enough about it to stand your ground and argue with them, after all they should know what they are talking about - how many people must there be out there though, who would willingly put the effort in to manage their diabetes better if only they were shown how, rather than just being told that the pills will fix it or that there's nothing you can do to stop it progressing! And how many people will end up having nasty complications which are expensive for the NHS to fix, who might not have done if they had been given some better advice and tools in the beginning?!

OK I'll get off my soap box now, I know I'm preaching to the converted here!! 😳

 

[Bubbsie]

I agree @Bubbsie - but either way it's insulting and not in the patient's best interests
And when you are newly diagnosed you probably don't know enough about it to stand your ground and argue with them, after all they should know what they are talking about - how many people must there be out there though, who would willingly put the effort in to manage their diabetes better if only they were shown how, rather than just being told that the pills will fix it or that there's nothing you can do to stop it progressing! And how many people will end up having nasty complications which are expensive for the NHS to fix, who might not have done if they had been given some better advice and tools in the beginning?!

OK I'll get off my soap box now, I know I'm preaching to the converted here!! 😳

No not at all preaching Sally...the more that I read this the better as far as I'm concerned...I had the same start as many here had...will have...little advice...not aware just how devastating this condition is/was/could be...I came here approximately 2 year ago... got some good advice...then researched as much as I could...I had all these discussions with my GP...who openly said he knew little about diabetes when I asked him...now he says he learns a little more every time I have a review & showed me a course he was booked on about updating his knowledge of type 2...he also recommends Gretchen Becker's Book to his newly diagnosed patient's..so for me that is a little progress...although we could do with more...my advice if asked would be we don't get insulted...we get pro-active with our HCP's...more & more attention is being given to the effect of carbs...how we can manage T2...accepted not everyone will be able to bring their conditions down to non-diabetic levels however even small changes can bring about some real improvements...it's good to hear this Sally...I hope to hear it more often.

 

[Beck S]

Cannot see how you need to be trained to use a BG meter. I use one and it is just straightforward. Cannot see how it makes diabetes worse. I would have thought if you knew what certain foods did so that you could adjust portions, cut down, cut off, whatever the person concerned prefers, it could improve things rather than worsen them.

Me neither. I told her that with all due respect, her GP was talking b******s and that I used mine and had great help in getting my BG levels down.

 

[Martin Canty]

one was told that she wasn't going to be given a BG meter as she wasn't trained to use it and it would just make her diabetes worse anyway.

There are just so many things wrong with this statement..... I was never trained in the use of a BG meter (though really, need to be trained😱), but I attribute my very good control to being able to use the results of my testing to provide feedback into my lifestyle.... I despair at the medical professionals that downplay the importance of testing.

 

[Maz2]

Its all about the money Sally...nothing more...however any excuse is put forward to not prescribe them for T2's non-dependent on hypo meds...after all it wouldn't look good if surgeries...GP's or DSN's were to say no we won't give them to you because we cannot justify the cost...or we don't consider you're worth the investment.

I suppose that is a point Bubbsie because there are so many people now with diabetes and pre-diabetes. I have never known so many people with one or the other. I am not asking my GP to pay for it as I know he won't as they have a lot of diabetics on their books I am sure so cannot afford to give strips to those who are not. He told me he would not be able to fund a machine or strips hence why I think he suggested I did not keep testing myself. I have bought my own and am testing as I want to try to get out of pre-diabetes again if I can and, if I can't, I want to keep as good a control as possible.

I am lucky I suppose in that one of our GPs does have a special interest in diabetes and is a lovely guy to boot who you can sit and talk to. Even if, as I did last time, you book a 10 min appointment he does not try to get you our of the surgery. HIs surgery ended up running behind by about 30 mins because of me.

I am going to continue to test when I try new foods to see what they do and try to keep to foods that don't cause too much of a problem. I suppose I am lucky in that I can afford to do it (have bought an SD Codefree recommended here as AccuCheck strips a bit expensive) but I feel sorry for people who probably find it expensive to have to keep buying everything themselves.

 

[Bubbsie]

I suppose that is a point Bubbsie because there are so many people now with diabetes and pre-diabetes. I have never known so many people with one or the other. I am not asking my GP to pay for it as I know he won't as they have a lot of diabetics on their books I am sure so cannot afford to give strips to those who are not. He told me he would not be able to fund a machine or strips hence why I think he suggested I did not keep testing myself. I have bought my own and am testing as I want to try to get out of pre-diabetes again if I can and, if I can't, I want to keep as good a control as possible.

I am lucky I suppose in that one of our GPs does have a special interest in diabetes and is a lovely guy to boot who you can sit and talk to. Even if, as I did last time, you book a 10 min appointment he does not try to get you our of the surgery. HIs surgery ended up running behind by about 30 mins because of me.

I am going to continue to test when I try new foods to see what they do and try to keep to foods that don't cause too much of a problem. I suppose I am lucky in that I can afford to do it (have bought an SD Codefree recommended here as AccuCheck strips a bit expensive) but I feel sorry for people who probably find it expensive to have to keep buying everything themselves.

My relationship with my GP initially was horrendous...I was newly registered there...had a very quick cursory 1st appointment with him in which he missed some serious issues... I just felt I would have to change practices...so I wrote to him...outlined how I felt & what I was unhappy with...we had a long discussion about my concerns...now two years later I wouldn't change him & would wait for an appointment with him rather than see one of the others...if your GP ran late because he prolonged your appointment obviously he felt you needed that time.