Will you be taking the jab?

[Reece Sargent]

Just curious to see how many type 1 diabetics will go through with the vaccine, I’m not anti vax, just nervous. Anyone been contacted yet??

 

[Robin]

Just curious to see how many type 1 diabetics will go through with the vaccine, I’m not anti vax, just nervous. Anyone been contacted yet??

Have a look at this thread, there are a fair few Type 1s that have had theirs, mainly older, of course, since we haven’t got to Group 6 yet, but some younger front line health workers.

Who has had their first jab?

Thought it might be interesting to see who has been offered their first Covid vaccine injection, and whether there is much difference over the country. No need to be overly specific if you’d prefer to keep your exact location secret, but an idea of region might be interesting. @Becka and @Docb...

forum.diabetes.org.uk

Also this one, where a couple of people report having lower than expected blood glucose afterwards, (the general expectation being that they would go higher)

Pfizer vaccine

Anyone else noticed really low blood sugar readings directly after having the Pfizer vaccine?

forum.diabetes.org.uk

 

[Reece Sargent]

Thank you for sending me the links and general information, just nervous when it gets to my age group ( I’m 26 ), and that’s what I was worried about and wanted to see if anyone had side effects, many thanks again!

 

[Bruce Stephens]

that’s what I was worried about and wanted to see if anyone had side effects, many thanks again!

I just had the usual vaccination things: a sore arm for a couple of days (starting the next day, so a reaction to the vaccine rather than just the injection). People mostly report the same sorts of thing (maybe mild fever).

In terms of diabetes I think the expectation is higher BG for a few days (like an infection) but a few of us experienced low BG (which was surprising). So just be a bit more careful for a few days, I think.

They're tracking side effects and so far the vaccines seem incredibly safe (which they have to be to use on billions of people). And there's a tiny proportion of people with history of severe allergic reactions who have had reactions. If there are much less common effects I guess we'll only find out in time.

 

[helli]

The way I see it the vaccine has been tested for short, and maybe medium, term effects but not long term.
The short and medium term effects of Covid are definitely bad.
The long term effects of the vaccine and Covid are not known but likely to be pretty bad.
I understand the vaccines have
been tested on people with Type 1 diabetes and our condition has no added risks in terms of the vaccine.
The risk associated with catching Covid is far greater in my mind than the risks of long term effects from the jab. So, I will be jabbed as soon as I get the invitation.

 

[RirisR]

I can understand why you feel nervous over the jabs, I was with regard to the
Pfizer one because of the link to Bells Palsy and I would have refused to have this
as I have had Bells Palsy and it is not very nice and I was lucky to come out of it
can still feel on a cold day the residual nerves in my face tingling, but, I have been offered
the Oxford Jab, not by choice I add, but because that is what is now on offer so Im having that
on Wednesday I hope that will be OK so gritting my teeth and going ahead as I would like some
sort of life to go back to and I really think perhaps it is the only way out of this pandemic. My advice
would be to weigh up and read up about the vacinations then you can make an informed choice
which is suited to you take care xx

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Had my vaccination yesterday, have headache and feel sick today and very tired. Blood sugars on the lower end of normal.
I suspect that having Addison's disease has played a major part in the side effects, so have taken extra steroids and feel a lot better.
I would rather feel cr*p for a day or two than get the virus.

 

[nonethewiser]

Most certainly take jab when offered.

 

[Inka]

Just curious to see how many type 1 diabetics will go through with the vaccine, I’m not anti vax, just nervous. Anyone been contacted yet??

I think it’s natural to be nervous. But i’ll be having the vaccine.

What convinced me was the higher risk of Covid with being Type 1;

the fact that Covid seems to randomly affect some people seriously, including people in their 20s and 30s while others only have a mild illness - are you willing to take a punt on how it will affect you if you get it? I’m not.

reading about young, healthy people dying or being seriously ill.

the large numbers of people suffering with ‘long Covid’

 

[Inka]

Interesting questions @Amity Island You’ve obviously taken time to identify your particular concerns, which must have helped you.

I don’t know how many of those questions I can answer but Qs 1 and 2, I think, apply to all vaccines eg whooping cough, etc so not just Covid. I assume it’s so companies aren’t dissuaded from inventing vaccines.

Q3 - I took the “affect anyone” to be mainly those who aren’t vaccinated. It was introduced after they found some people thought it was only the old and vulnerable who needed to be concerned. Of course, the vaccines aren’t 100% effective so you can look at the individual figures to see how many vaccinated people might get Covid. The suggestion is that it will be a milder form.

Q4 - I don’t know

Q5 - I think I’ve seen some figures somewhere, possibly on the BBC news site, detailing common side effects and the numbers who get them. I presume there will also be figures in the original studies.

Q6 - they cant say for sure but I think they’re trying to find out. I’ve read suggestions such as 8, 9 or more months. So maybe like the flu vaccine?

Q7 - Yes, they give longer immunity apparently

Q8 - I don’t know if they’ve been tested on pregnant women yet. I don’t think so.

Q9 - Don’t know

Q10 - I cant do that Maths! Hopefully someone has.

Q11 - unknown as yet

Q12 - no, I think the vaccine means you don’t usually get any illness, but a few people will have a mild illness. So it stops most people getting it. Covid can be mild but can cause serious effects in some people - randomly. I wouldn’t take that risk, quite apart from longterm problems like heart issues.

Q13 - Yes, eventually I think 🙂

 

[Inka]

I think some of that ‘pushing’ is because the government messed up with their early messages (only affects old people, just like a cold, etc) so are having to emphasise things now, especially as the NHS is under pressure.

I tend to listen to the medical staff online. The news that Covid was a multi-system illness was what made me think. There was one guy who wrote a lot about it but his name escapes me. He is a doctor and wrote about the severe inflammation he’d seen.

 

[Becka]

However, these new mRNA "vaccines" had never been allowed to be tested on humans until now (for a good reason i'd suppose).

That is not true, mRNA vaccines have been tested on humans before. But as a "new" technology of only around thirty years old they were still difficult to produce until very recently which is why they had never been used in a marketable vaccine until now.

Last year saw a number of studies reporting on human trials of several different vaccines, including for influenza. The main risk was injection site reactions, which is why after the Pfizer vaccine a clinic will ask you to remain for 15 minutes to ensure there are no problems. But those mRNA trials had shown no safety concerns with the vaccines.

A key benefit in the the use of the technology for Covid vaccines is that they allow a much quicker production process, as you do not need to produce and purify viral proteins. It is no surprise that Moderna and BioNTech vaccines are the two most commonly used at the moment, with both companies specializing in mRNA research. Meanwhile those problems with traditional vaccine production is shown with the high profile problems at AstraZeneca getting the cell cultures in some of their facilities to produce a high enough vaccine yield.

I've been hearing this "anyone can catch it" and "anyone can pass it on" almost every day (including today) since the very beginning of the campaign, but if it that is true, it doesn't say much for the vaccines does it?

Only if you are a Covid-denier and dispute its existence. The primary purpose of the vaccine is to prevent serious illness, effectively turning a potentially serious infection into something as annoying as the common cold. Transmission has no relevance to the reason for vaccines.

Whilst younger age groups may have a much lower risk of death, little is known about the long term health impacts of infection. In particular the so-called long Covid, where people who are young, do not require hospitalization, still have symptoms and suffer ill effects long after the normal course of an infection. Whilst there has been a focus on hospitalizations and deaths, those are not the only effects of viruses and the long term consequences can only by learned about over time. There is nothing you can do a year after the first infection to know what, if any, effect it will ave five years later.

However vaccines may also reduce transmission, this would be the normal effect of a vaccine. But scientists caution against making such an assumption because as yet it has not been proven. It has also not been proven that it has no such effect, but sadly some people choose to exploit normal scientific precaution to claim this as a fact to suit their own agendas. The opposite to not knowing that something is the case (vaccines reduce transmission) is being unable to know (it may or may not reduce transmission), it is not to say that it is not the case. And there are no reasons to assume that anything will be different with Covid to may the latter a more likely outcome.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

the large numbers of people suffering with ‘long Covid’

Must admit I'm still not clear what the numbers are. Obviously the severity (and duration) of the effects also varies a lot (plenty of people have at least mild symptoms months after influenza). Since the numbers of infected people has been so large even a small percentage of chronic long term problems will be horrible.

I was shaken a bit after seeing (9 months or so ago, back when things were just opening up a bit and such things were possible) when I saw someone dancing. She looked kind of familiar, and afterwards I found out who she was and that she'd had COVID quite severely and was still recovering slowly. She really looked like a shadow of who I remembered.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

That is not true, mRNA vaccines have been tested on humans before. But as a "new" technology of only around thirty years old they were still difficult to produce until very recently which is why they had never been used in a marketable vaccine until now.

The story of mRNA: How a once-dismissed idea became a leading technology in the Covid vaccine race

The story of mRNA began is a tale of personal perseverance, eureka moments in the lab, soaring expectations — and an unprecedented flow of cash in biotech.

www.statnews.com

 

[Bruce Stephens]

and now, with the vaccine rollout, you can't get it if you've been vaccinated either.

I don't think we know that. I think the trials for the mRNA vaccines (in particular the Pfizer one) were looking for symptomatic infection (perhaps even more serious infection). (I think everyone thinks it's likely that all these vaccines will significantly reduce transmission. It's just that there's not a whole lot of evidence yet, and the efficacy trials weren't designed to produce even the evidence that they might have produced: that the vaccines reduced the likelihood of becoming infected. Again, they probably do reduce that, but I think we don't know yet.)

(I think some parts of the OX/AZ trials did PCR testing more routinely so could pick up mere infection; I'm not quite sure why the other trials didn't do the same. Even if the more serious events are most important it would be nice to know about infections.)

 

[Becka]

A lengthy response, but no answers?

It is not my place to answer your questions, I would recommend you should talk to your G.P. if you genuinely need them answering in order to help make a decision on how to act.

However, I will challenge false statements which are presented as facts, because it is dangerous to risk other people being mislead by them. Everyone needs to be free to make up their own minds, but that must be based on truth. To wit…

e.g you can't get it if you've had it (aquired immunity)

Yes you can catch it for a second time having been previously infected, though it is uncommon. It is also not known how long immunity lasts, whether through vaccines or gained naturally. And, as with all viruses, the Covid virus is constantly mutating so any immunity from one strain offers no guarantee that it will make you immune from any other variation. It therefore may be the case that Covid will require an annual vaccination, the same as with influenza.

As for the sophistry about how you cannot be infected or transmit the virus if isolating etc., I would hope no one needs to be told that actions taken to avoid those very realities will not magically change anyone's biology.

 

[Docb]

Hi Inka,

I know.... but how long are they going to keep this "anyone can get it/pass it on" slogan going? I never agreed with that statement from the very beginning, because I always felt it wasn't accurate.

e.g you can't get it if you've had it (aquired immunity), you can't get it if you're isolating, you can't get it if you already have it, you can't pass it on if you don't have it, you can't pass it on if you are isolating, you can't pass it on if someone else is isolating, you can't pass it on to someone who already has it, you can't pass it on to someone who has immunity..... and now, with the vaccine rollout, you can't get it if you've been vaccinated either.

That's an awful lot of situations where "anyone can't".

Amity, my usual comment, very few things are either black or white. Replace your "can't" with a probability statement and things make more sense. If we talked about risk, and the data expressed in risk terms, then we would be further forward in my view.

 

[Inka]

Hi Inka,

I know.... but how long are they going to keep this "anyone can get it/pass it on" slogan going? I never agreed with that statement from the very beginning, because I always felt it wasn't accurate.

e.g you can't get it if you've had it (aquired immunity), you can't get it if you're isolating, you can't get it if you already have it, you can't pass it on if you don't have it, you can't pass it on if you are isolating, you can't pass it on if someone else is isolating, you can't pass it on to someone who already has it, you can't pass it on to someone who has immunity..... and now, with the vaccine rollout, you can't get it if you've been vaccinated either.

That's an awful lot of situations where "anyone can't".

I think there are three reasons @Amity Island The first is that they want to keep the message simple; the second is the reason i mentioned in my post above - that far too many people still think it’s only a worry for the very old and frail; and the third reason is they assume people are either stupid so need a very short message or clever enough to deduce the exceptions to the “anyone” - therefore this brief slogan will serve both those groups.

I’m sure someone on here was isolating and yet still got Covid, so I think there are less exceptions than we might assume. There’s also a concern that people who’ve been vaccinated might still be able to pass Covid on to the unvaccinated. If someone got Covid early in the pandemic, their immunity will probably have worn off now and they could get it again, etc

Oops - I thought of a fourth reason! Check out the average ‘reading age’ in the U.K. People really do switch off at what they see as a wall of text, and either wont read on or can’t read on or discern subtle nuances.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I hope you are not getting upset @Amity Island - but unfortunately sometimes I think your posts don’t read the way you intend them to (one of the difficulties of only getting the written communication, and not being able to see the body language etc).

I think asking questions is helpful, and something we should all do, but the nature of the questions one asks, and the way they are phrased can lead those reading to infer opinion behind the questions, even if that wasn’t your intention.

I understand your frustration about the bluntness of the ‘anyone can get it, anyone can pass it on’ message, but as a slogan it is really intended to act against those who are not changing their behaviour, not hand washing, not social distancing, continuing to meet with friends, not wearing face coverings etc etc because they don’t think they matter as precautions, and don’t recognise that you can have the virus and be passing it to others even if you feel well in yourself with no symptoms. See also: “act like you’ve got it”.

Plus we also know that @trophywench and husband, who have been fully isolating since March near enough, and getting their shopping delivered - so taking more precautions than many - both managed to contract the virus somehow. So even quite profound self-isolation doesn’t necessarily guarantee against infection.

Personally I will be more than happy to get the vaccine when my time comes. With many millions already vaccinated globally with very few significant adverse events I am confident that the benefits of the vaccine significantly outweigh the risk of not getting it.

Unfortunately for me, while questions and a degree of caution are wise, there is a pervasive ‘cloud of doubt’ which is being actively generated by some groups who are intentionally spreading misinformation, such that for some people there will be enough of a ‘no smoke without fire’ to lead them to not accept the vaccine, which (if enough people do the same) will put some communities at unnecessary risk. This is currently happening in the BAME community unfortunately

 

[Inka]

I like questions and debate 🙂 I think everyone should re-examine their thoughts from time to time. I was thinking about the vaccine again this morning. I think my bottom line is that I think the vaccine is less risky than getting Covid because of the unpredictability of who will get a mild version and who will be unlucky enough to get it seriously. I don’t want to take that risk personally.