Why does the "normal" person's blood sugar range fall into a hypo for a diabetic?

[Superheavy]

Okay, this is something I've been trying to figure out because my blood sugars are generally highest a short time after breakfast (usually in the 7s), but in the afternoon and after dinner they're usually in the 4s and 5s.

The publicised range for normal people's blood sugars is between 3.5-5.5, however the leaflet my diabetes nurse gave me suggested anything below 4.0 was a hypo for people with diabetes. Why don't normal people feel the same symptoms as diabetics when the levels drop below 4.0? Also, if I regularly have my bg's in the 4s, should I be worried, or is my Metformin just regulating the levels effectively?

Had a look around previous threads, but couldn't find an answer to this specific question.

 

[KookyCat]

Well in short we feel "hypo" at higher levels because we run blood sugar at higher levels than a normal would. The body has no concept of blood sugar really, it just likes balance and so the pancreas and liver work in tandem to keep the blood sugar as constant and level as possible. It adapts though. So a normal won't spend much time at all above 5mmol/l because it's a constant process of insulin and glucose release, nor will they be likely to have wildly fluctuating glucose levels. We on the other hand have much higher peaks and generally higher average levels. The body gets used to that and assumes starvation (that's what a hypo is to the body) if we drop below our new normal. The body thinks your average of 7 is exactly the same as the average of 4.5 for a person without diabetes. It's why people get false hypos when initially medicated, because the body has adapted. It basically takes your normal and applies a variation rule. Does that make sense, it's really hard to explain 😱

For someone with type 2 and not using insulin 4's are a delightful trend, I wouldn't worry at all, in fact the more of those 4s you get the better. In fact if you're not using insulin or other drugs that have a direct impact on blood sugar then some high 3's isn't a cause for concern either I don't think 🙂 Things are slightly more dicey with insulin, but lots of us aren't concerned by high 3's either, unless it looks like it's heading south then that's a different thing altogether.

 

[Robin]

I think the 4 came in because of the inaccuracy of meter readings. If it says 4, you might actually only be 3.5.
Before I was diabetic, I can remember feeling a bit weak and light headed temporarily sometimes if I hadn't eaten for a while, and had been exercising, so possibly my blood sugar was low then. And one of the things that causes a hangover can be low blood sugar, as your liver doesn't pump out glucose while its dealing with the alcohol. non Ds never give it another thought, though.
I wouldn't worry about having levels in the 4s regularly, provided they aren't often dropping below.

 

[trophywench]

And non-D people often feel a bit Oooer during or after exercise - which of course causes them to take a break, have a cuppa and most likely because their BODY tells em to do it - think 'I'll have a biscuit with this!' Then after a bit go 'That's better!' - and go back out and mow the rest of the lawn.

They do not relate it at all to BG - why on earth would they?

I mean I can remember growing up my mom and dad both doing that from time to time when either was busy doing something physical - Do us a favour and make us a cuppa, please! Yes?

 

[Superheavy]

Thanks guys - I've been getting down in the fours and not feeling any different to how I normally feel, so I don't think I've ever gotten so low to have really had the hypo symptoms. Fingers crossed with good management, weight loss, diet, and metformin, I can keep on top of it while not letting it get too low.

Thanks Kookykat - that makes sense as to why those without diabetes have a more stable, and smaller range than diabetics.

 

[AndBreathe]

Thanks guys - I've been getting down in the fours and not feeling any different to how I normally feel, so I don't think I've ever gotten so low to have really had the hypo symptoms. Fingers crossed with good management, weight loss, diet, and metformin, I can keep on top of it while not letting it get too low.

Thanks Kookykat - that makes sense as to why those without diabetes have a more stable, and smaller range than diabetics.

Superheavy - Rejoice in feeling gooood in the 4s. I feel good in all the 3s too, but more than half way down the 2s, I generally want to have something to eat; urgently!

As @trophywench has said, "normal" folks, when they feel like they need sustenance just have it, without all that testing malarkey, so would never you if they're at 3 or 30. I believe they run in the 3s for a decent part of the time, so the fact I now do the same seems pretty OK with me.

It sounds like you are in the process of resetting your diabetes dials. Well done on that. Here's hoping your progress is sustained and maintained.

 

[Copepod]

On a couple of occasions my partner reached front door of home or camping barn absolutely exhausted after a long tough run in cold & windy conditions (several hours, over 20km, on hills in case of camping barn), then he collapsed into chair and needed feeding with hot sweet tea, soup, noodles, muesli bars etc. Once he asked me to check his blood glucose before food (he's an engineer and naturally curious) and it was something between 3.0 and 3.5mmol/l.

 

[DeusXM]

Aside from the 'people with diabetes run higher sugars' line (which should be avoided as much as possible), there's meter (in)accuracy to account for. Plus, hypos historically have been entirely the domain of those on insulin, and insulin is a tricky thing to manage. If you've injected insulin within the past 5 hours and you've a blood sugar reading of 4.0, it is pretty likely that your BG level is going to drop a bit lower in the very near future, so you most likely need to start preparing to avoid a hypo.

Out of interest, how regularly do people test for hypos? I get hypo symptoms that I simply can't miss and so I tend not to test...because it's so obvious I'm having a hypo that all testing will do is confirm what I already know and delay me actually treating my hypo.

 

[Sally71]

We always test, were told to do this at the hospital when daughter was diagnosed. She was only just 6 at the time though, and we do get some false alarms so for the time being at least we will continue to always test. She does have good hypo awareness but I think sometimes if she is tired or just plain hungry it feels a bit similar to her. Also if she's been high and then dropped quickly we sometimes get a false hypo.
We also test anyway just to get an idea of exactly how low she is, if she's only borderline then I'd probably just give her one jelly baby or glucose tab to stop the drop, in the 3s probably 2, less than that then straight to maximum jelly baby dose!

Whereas my mum (T1 for 48 years) hardly ever tests and bases everything on what she feels like (bearing in mind that for the first 20 years of her diabetic life here were no home blood testing kits so she had no other way of doing it).

 

[SlowRunner]

I always test for hypos because (weirdly) I can get similar symptoms if by blood sugar spikes suddenly! So assuming I'm having a hypo and eating more sugar would make things worse

 

[Annette]

I always test but not always before I treat - ie, if I feel hypo and I know its hypo, I treat first (just in case) then immediately test - the treatment isnt going to have made any difference by then so I still have my initial number, but I'm in less danger because I've already treated.
(However, these days, thats not always a blood test - I will accept the libre readings if they match how I feel - if they read low and I feel low, I'm low, dont faff with double checking on meter.)

 

[trophywench]

I know what Deus means about obviously hypo so why bother but you do have to test 10-15 mins after you've treated it to make sure it's done the trick and I have to admit I've been caught out like Annette mentions so when I HAVE tested 10 mins after, I've now been 15 ..... and therefore must have been c 12 when I thought I was 3 !

And I felt DOG tired, couldn't hardly keep my eyes open the other night, obviously high as a kite, how did that happen? Tested of course, 5.9 ..... So - I was dog tired !

 

[Redkite]

"Normal" people (not very PC!) can get hypos and unpleasant hypo symptoms - and I speak from experience - but the difference is that our bodies instantly switch off all insulin production until things are back in balance, whereas people who take insulin by injection or pump cannot "remove" the circulating insulin, and their BG level would go lower and lower with potentially fatal consequences unless they take in some fast acting glucose.

The other important thing to consider when setting a threshold of 4mmol for needing to treat a hypo is this - the most crucial glucose concentration is that found in the fluid around the brain, which we cannot measure. The blood glucose is only an approximation, so we need a safety margin.

 

[Northerner]

I usually test if I have symptoms rather than just treating because I like to know what level the hypo is so I can tell if my hypo awareness is still good - never happy if I get a 'stealth hypo' where my levels have dropped to the mid-2s and I'm only mildly affected 😱 Occasionally - especially with a night hypo - I have just treated then tested later to see if it worked.

 

[TheClockworkDodo]

I always test for hypos because (weirdly) I can get similar symptoms if by blood sugar spikes suddenly! So assuming I'm having a hypo and eating more sugar would make things worse

I get that sometimes too - and also the other way round, sometimes I'm really sleepy, absolutely out of it, like Jenny was saying, and I test expecting to be 15 and I'm 2.5 🙄

So I always test if I think my blood sugar is doing anything weird, whatever I think it's doing. However, I have impressed on R that if he finds me completely incoherent and not knowing who or where I am again, he needs to stuff glucose down my throat first and test afterwards, as that would be safer.

 

[Superheavy]

"Normal" people (not very PC!)

Is there a secret name - like Muggles - that the diabetic community use to call them? Normies would also work I suppose.

 

[Redkite]

Is there a secret name - like Muggles - that the diabetic community use to call them? Normies would also work I suppose.

Type 3's! Though I think that only applies to those muggles who support a person with diabetes.

 

[KookyCat]

i test every time I feel like I might be hypo, mostly because I have varying degrees of awareness it seems, if I'm on my feet and moving I absolutely know, if sat down or lying down not so much it seems, the signals are there they're just not as punch me in the face obvious, so I'm working on identifying them. I do work it out when I stand up though. Weird Especially problematic on buses and at at night, more so on a bus when you stand up think oh cripes I've lost my legs and I have to negotiate a moving bus and steps.

As far as terminology goes I prefer the term muggle as it happens, it seems a nice way of describing those who have no idea of the world that exists outside the sphere of their perfectly functioning pancreas. But then I have no problem with the word diabetic (which some folk do) or normal, they're just words and it depends what people do with them. I did however strenuously object to a nurse using the work "your" when talking about people with diabetes..."we use these on your feet", "we treat your neuropathy with this". My tribe all have individual names thanks very much, and we're not another species. Diabetes doesn't define me, but it is a defining feature of my life these days, although I'm still not willing to be depersonalised and lumped in with every other person with a Timmy pancreas, much as I love you all, I'm far too content being me 😉

 

[robert@fm]

I think I have good hypo awareness; I woke at around 5 this morning, feeling all the symptoms, and decided that instead of testing I would cut to the chase and have 250ml of 7-Up Cherry. After that I didn't feel that I was starting to rise, so I had another before going back to sleep.

When I finally tested, just after 9, I half-expected to be in double figures; no, I was 5.4! 🙂

 

[Northerner]

I think I have good hypo awareness; I woke at around 5 this morning, feeling all the symptoms, and decided that instead of testing I would cut to the chase and have 250ml of 7-Up Cherry. After that I didn't feel that I was starting to rise, so I had another before going back to sleep.

When I finally tested, just after 9, I half-expected to be in double figures; no, I was 5.4! 🙂

Crikey, well-judged! 🙂