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Why do diabetics not take things seriously?
- Thread starter Ipsi
- Start date
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Ipsi
Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Ditto xxoo: I had problems with potatoes too. I sympathise. No chips for five years! What's worse, no chip butties for five years! I have conditioned myself to see all "bad" foods (high glycaemic load) as being poisonous for me. It helps me say no but it doesn't take away the occasional wanting. Frankly, it was easier to give up smoking - haven't done that for five years either.
Steff: I would change the thread title - now I know the site better (shouldn't have gone off half cocked, just presumed that most diabetics were like the ones I knew) - if I had the first clue how to do that.
trophywench: Here's the rub: I'm pretty well up on the condition and other forms of cancer; before I had my back injury I was a nurse and worked mostly in oncology, also CCU and ITU, but there are so many things that can kill you that you'd need a plethora of blood and other tests to identify everything and anything that might be a problem. You could also then get hit by a bus. The statistics for health problems can only be relevant to an individual and I've seen so many people die unexpectedly, or get over things when they shouldn't have, the stats only work, really, for the statisticians and for big pharma who want us all to be medicated 24/7.
It's like when they changed daylight savings time and discovered that far less people were killed in the evenings in RTAs than before but more in the mornings. They kept the change. Then some clever person pointed out that at the same time they'd made drink driving illegal and no-one knew the relative effect of the drinking ban compared to the light change.
Stats tell you very little or nothing about your own health.
My sister died at 40 of liver cancer secondary to breast cancer. She never smoked, never drank, was a vegan and exercised regularly. I'm not saying don't make an effort to stay healthy - I do - just that you can't spend your life worrying about the possible when you still need to deal with the actual. If I ever get the slightest symptom of any form of cancer, I'll be off to the doc, demanding every test I can think of.
Steff: I would change the thread title - now I know the site better (shouldn't have gone off half cocked, just presumed that most diabetics were like the ones I knew) - if I had the first clue how to do that.
trophywench: Here's the rub: I'm pretty well up on the condition and other forms of cancer; before I had my back injury I was a nurse and worked mostly in oncology, also CCU and ITU, but there are so many things that can kill you that you'd need a plethora of blood and other tests to identify everything and anything that might be a problem. You could also then get hit by a bus. The statistics for health problems can only be relevant to an individual and I've seen so many people die unexpectedly, or get over things when they shouldn't have, the stats only work, really, for the statisticians and for big pharma who want us all to be medicated 24/7.
It's like when they changed daylight savings time and discovered that far less people were killed in the evenings in RTAs than before but more in the mornings. They kept the change. Then some clever person pointed out that at the same time they'd made drink driving illegal and no-one knew the relative effect of the drinking ban compared to the light change.
Stats tell you very little or nothing about your own health.
My sister died at 40 of liver cancer secondary to breast cancer. She never smoked, never drank, was a vegan and exercised regularly. I'm not saying don't make an effort to stay healthy - I do - just that you can't spend your life worrying about the possible when you still need to deal with the actual. If I ever get the slightest symptom of any form of cancer, I'll be off to the doc, demanding every test I can think of.
Copepod
Much missed Moderator
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 1
@Ipsi - regular posters can't change thread titles, but moderators / admin can. However, a less provocative title would mean many posts wouldn't make sense, so I think it's better to leave it.
In relation to you comment about statistics - you're right that many people have poor understanding of risk, epidemiology etc. It's not usually part of basic nurse education, for example. In most medical degrees, it's just a few hours, if that. Personally, I had a term of medical statistics in my MSc Environmental Technology (Health and the environment option), which I still use almost every day, nearly 19 years after graduating. I chose that course after getting type 1 diabetes aged 30 years made my BSc Marine Biology virtually useless.
In relation to you comment about statistics - you're right that many people have poor understanding of risk, epidemiology etc. It's not usually part of basic nurse education, for example. In most medical degrees, it's just a few hours, if that. Personally, I had a term of medical statistics in my MSc Environmental Technology (Health and the environment option), which I still use almost every day, nearly 19 years after graduating. I chose that course after getting type 1 diabetes aged 30 years made my BSc Marine Biology virtually useless.
Bubbsie
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
I have no objection to the title of your thread...it drew me in...I know it doesn't relate to me...or the majority of our members here...it promotes discussion...opinion...possibly a little provocative...however...everyone here is entitled to their opinion...it's not offensive per se...I've heard/seen far worse...here & elsewhere.
Ipsi
Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Copepod: Now I know you have a BSc in Marine Biology, I get the Copepod reference. I've always presumed that plankton in SpongeBob is a copepod - he looks like one. I'm digressing... ...you're right about nurse training having no stats. My A Levels (way back) were Maths/Stats Biology & Computer Science - one of the first schools to do the course. After my back problems I did a BSc in Maths and computing, looking for a change of career... ...ended up working in finance! Vic Reeves had a great quote about stats: 88.8% of all statistics are made up on the spot. I know from my own work that the way data is presented can cause inferences that are diametrically opposed to a valid interpretation of the data.
Those studies where you can reduce your risk of contracting alienitis by 20% if you juggle fish for an hour every day, when your chances of contracting it in your lifetime are only one in three billion to start with are frequently the basis for big pharma to attempt to convince the medical profession that everyone should be taking a particular drug (or juggling fish) forever. More often than not it's only politicians they need to convince.
Bubsie: Thanks. I was a little brusque with my opening post though.
Those studies where you can reduce your risk of contracting alienitis by 20% if you juggle fish for an hour every day, when your chances of contracting it in your lifetime are only one in three billion to start with are frequently the basis for big pharma to attempt to convince the medical profession that everyone should be taking a particular drug (or juggling fish) forever. More often than not it's only politicians they need to convince.
Bubsie: Thanks. I was a little brusque with my opening post though.
Northerner
Admin (Retired)
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 1
Does this mean I can finally put these fish down, they're making my arms ache! 😱 
Bubbsie
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
I didn't take your post personally Ipsi...why would I...why would anyone here?...possibly because the level of support that diabetics receive (or rather the lack of it) particularly type 2's...my opinion only... is a sensitive issue for many of us here...I was given my diagnosis in a telephone call from my GP...told to collect a prescription...little advice given...advised not to test...so much neglect in the first few months...too much to mention here...however...I read...researched...wrote to my GP...challenged his lack of support...got him to prescribe me testing strips...challenged the local CCG when they were likely to intervene & stop him from prescribing (and won)...I didn't find all of those measures particularly difficult...time consuming though! but not difficult...I am a lawyer by trade...have a degree in pure law (haven't admitted that here before)...used to reading turgid...dry...verbose...volumes of documentation to extract the salient points...others do not have that benefit...or experience...many have been left to simply get on with it...not advised/supported adequately...unaware of how devastating diabetes can be...'take the pills come back in three/six months'...that is not an excuse...however...but you may find it is the explanation for why many find themselves in a mess...so far down the diabetes 'scale' it seems an impossibility to recover...refocus....that's the beauty of the forum...they can come here...discuss...be advised...supported...I wouldn't apologise for your post...it's provoked a 'healthy' discussion...got our interest...looking forward to what else you may have to say...given your medical background...could be enlightening.
Steff
Little Miss Chatterbox
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
No probs looks like its staying as it is
Ipsi
Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
I'll have a think... I know I don't like drugs like Glyclazide that just flog an often already failing pancreas to produce more insulin. Generally, anything that helps reduce insulin resistance is worth pursuing but that means a variety of options depending on how your diabetes manifests. I also think that far more research needs to be done into the possibility of long term/permanent glucagon adjustment treatments, although I understand there is an on-going study in rats that seems to have reversed diabetes using this method. It's a long way off any human trials in any case.
I had similar, though not so drastic, problems when I became diabetic. Even for my last hba1c test I had to phone the doctor to get the result. Given there were other tests involved, I do find it astonishing that they'd only contact me for a "bad" result. Who is the diabetic? Who needs to know the results more?
I'm glad that this forum exists. Had I known about it when I was diagnosed it would have been invaluable. Having been a nurse, I knew the mechanics of diabetes but was sometimes astonished that medical professionals who were prescribing for it seemed not to. I mentioned the islets of Langerhans to one of my GPs early on and got a completely blank look - I think he thought I was talking about a holiday destination. It wasn't until I mentioned the alpha and beta cells that I observed that kick-start expression people get when they didn't know what you were talking about but now they think they're up to speed. Fortunately, my current GP is also the practise diabetes specific GP. He knows a lot more than most but we still disagree on treatments etc. at times. He would like to drown me in unnecessary statins, for instance. At least he no longer treats me like an idiot, which he did at first.
One of the conversations I had with him was about having researched statins and analyse of their usefulness across different demographics. I'd come to the conclusion that I really didn't need them (total cholesterol 5, with a good split) and that I was dubious about their use over large sections of the population. He actually said to me, "Well there's a lot of nonsense you can read on the internet, but I'm getting my information from medical journals". I rarely get angry but that did spark me off. "I said, what do you think I'm researching from, the **** Beano?" Then pointed out some of the "nonsense" internet sites (e.g. the NHS research journal libraries). We have had a much better relationship since that exchange.
Bottom line is: I'm fundamentally in agreement that healthcare for diabetics is woefully inadequate in terms of education and dissemination of information regarding options for treatment/disease maintenance. I had to buy my own test strips at first. I only got prescribed them after I briefly took Gliclazide (and experienced my first and only hypo, which was fun - and weird). I don't think it's necessarily just diabetics this is true for but I have noticed a tendency for the media (and some healthcare professionals) to categorise diabetes as an entirely lifestyle related disease, like we're all alcoholics (alcoholism, frankly, is also a disease, not a "lifestyle") and somehow make us less worthy of healthcare because of it. It's not an overt statement but there does seem to be a tacit consensus that it's one of "those" kinds of diseases.
I had similar, though not so drastic, problems when I became diabetic. Even for my last hba1c test I had to phone the doctor to get the result. Given there were other tests involved, I do find it astonishing that they'd only contact me for a "bad" result. Who is the diabetic? Who needs to know the results more?
I'm glad that this forum exists. Had I known about it when I was diagnosed it would have been invaluable. Having been a nurse, I knew the mechanics of diabetes but was sometimes astonished that medical professionals who were prescribing for it seemed not to. I mentioned the islets of Langerhans to one of my GPs early on and got a completely blank look - I think he thought I was talking about a holiday destination. It wasn't until I mentioned the alpha and beta cells that I observed that kick-start expression people get when they didn't know what you were talking about but now they think they're up to speed. Fortunately, my current GP is also the practise diabetes specific GP. He knows a lot more than most but we still disagree on treatments etc. at times. He would like to drown me in unnecessary statins, for instance. At least he no longer treats me like an idiot, which he did at first.
One of the conversations I had with him was about having researched statins and analyse of their usefulness across different demographics. I'd come to the conclusion that I really didn't need them (total cholesterol 5, with a good split) and that I was dubious about their use over large sections of the population. He actually said to me, "Well there's a lot of nonsense you can read on the internet, but I'm getting my information from medical journals". I rarely get angry but that did spark me off. "I said, what do you think I'm researching from, the **** Beano?" Then pointed out some of the "nonsense" internet sites (e.g. the NHS research journal libraries). We have had a much better relationship since that exchange.
Bottom line is: I'm fundamentally in agreement that healthcare for diabetics is woefully inadequate in terms of education and dissemination of information regarding options for treatment/disease maintenance. I had to buy my own test strips at first. I only got prescribed them after I briefly took Gliclazide (and experienced my first and only hypo, which was fun - and weird). I don't think it's necessarily just diabetics this is true for but I have noticed a tendency for the media (and some healthcare professionals) to categorise diabetes as an entirely lifestyle related disease, like we're all alcoholics (alcoholism, frankly, is also a disease, not a "lifestyle") and somehow make us less worthy of healthcare because of it. It's not an overt statement but there does seem to be a tacit consensus that it's one of "those" kinds of diseases.
Ahem, morning and hello Ipsi - well done, what a brilliant pot stir.
I'm T2 and still a bit fat.
My son said, cut the c**p dad, you don't see many thin fit people with diabetes.
He was right.
So, I stopped eating what I previously thought of as the 'good' things, reclassified them as 'bad' things and the weight came off.
Like magic!
No like normal!
Was a bit confused when told by my Doc that Glics were weight positive though, turn sugar to fat, kind of mixed message there, lose weight but here's a drug that will increase it.
Anyhow, motivation is the word.
Lose weight or die, simple choice really.
M
I'm T2 and still a bit fat.
My son said, cut the c**p dad, you don't see many thin fit people with diabetes.
He was right.
So, I stopped eating what I previously thought of as the 'good' things, reclassified them as 'bad' things and the weight came off.
Like magic!
No like normal!
Was a bit confused when told by my Doc that Glics were weight positive though, turn sugar to fat, kind of mixed message there, lose weight but here's a drug that will increase it.
Anyhow, motivation is the word.
Lose weight or die, simple choice really.
M
Wirrallass
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Just a few words...
I would prefer your thread title to read:-
Why do some people who have - or - living with Diabetes not take things seriously. Thank you.
I am not a diabetic but I am a person who has Diabetes.
Diabetes is a condition not a disease.
PS. No offence but you certainly know how to wind up some people ipsi
Oh and welcome to this friendly & supportive forum.
I would prefer your thread title to read:-
Why do some people who have - or - living with Diabetes not take things seriously. Thank you.
I am not a diabetic but I am a person who has Diabetes.
Diabetes is a condition not a disease.
PS. No offence but you certainly know how to wind up some people ipsi
Oh and welcome to this friendly & supportive forum.
Amigo
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
If you're a thinking, proactive person, it's hard not to rage about diabeties because it's maligned, misunderstood and misdirected by medics. I know so many diabetics who live in denial...don't understand it, don't want the limitations and use the 'I could be hit by a bus' analogy. They don't realise that they already have been hit by something very dangerous and if they don't jump out of the way, it will reverse back over them. But you can't save everyone. Some had very good funerals and I went to them.
I think perhaps your mistake Ipsi, was not realising your rant was to like minded people. Sometimes we get new members who roar onto the forum as if they've just invented the wheel and set forth to preach to those who've been peddling away for years. But they have good intentions and usually a passion for the subject so that's ok.
Health stats are curious for sure. I have an incurable blood cancer and statistically I could stand in a fully packed Wembley Stadium and they'd not be a single other sufferer and certainly not one of my age and gender. I went on to get a skin cancer and statistically the chances of it being a malignant melanoma were incredibly tiny. However it was and I've never sunbathed or used sunbeds. Life sucks and especially for your poor sister who did everything to help herself and it still didn't work.
So I'm afraid I won't be totally avoiding a few chips or the occasional biscuit. But it will be on my terms and tested for afterwards. A life of total avoidance is too obsessive for me and shouldn't be necessary. However, diabeties isn't only about life choices. Sometimes our pancreatic function is knackered too early and no biscuit avoidance in the world is going to help that. Diabeties isn't created equal but it's the one condition we can give ourselves a fighting chance with. It's about learning our own limits but the medics don't see that and don't want to fund a partnership response to home testing for type 2's.
Hope you enjoy the forum Ipsi. I feel sure you will and we don't mind getting our teeth sharpened once in a while!
I think perhaps your mistake Ipsi, was not realising your rant was to like minded people. Sometimes we get new members who roar onto the forum as if they've just invented the wheel and set forth to preach to those who've been peddling away for years. But they have good intentions and usually a passion for the subject so that's ok.
Health stats are curious for sure. I have an incurable blood cancer and statistically I could stand in a fully packed Wembley Stadium and they'd not be a single other sufferer and certainly not one of my age and gender. I went on to get a skin cancer and statistically the chances of it being a malignant melanoma were incredibly tiny. However it was and I've never sunbathed or used sunbeds. Life sucks and especially for your poor sister who did everything to help herself and it still didn't work.
So I'm afraid I won't be totally avoiding a few chips or the occasional biscuit. But it will be on my terms and tested for afterwards. A life of total avoidance is too obsessive for me and shouldn't be necessary. However, diabeties isn't only about life choices. Sometimes our pancreatic function is knackered too early and no biscuit avoidance in the world is going to help that. Diabeties isn't created equal but it's the one condition we can give ourselves a fighting chance with. It's about learning our own limits but the medics don't see that and don't want to fund a partnership response to home testing for type 2's.
Hope you enjoy the forum Ipsi. I feel sure you will and we don't mind getting our teeth sharpened once in a while!
Does it come easy being a paragon of virtue @Ipsi?
No two diabetics are the same, we are not robots and I found your opening post offensive.
I try as hard as I can to manage my diabetes but have other conditions which need a different dietary approach. I have to juggle my menus depending on whether I am in the midst of a flare up from Crohn's disease, fibre can become a problem, or try to add more calcium to my menu, because of osteoporosis. It is a minefield for me and I do not think you understand the complexities that some of us have to go through to enable us to eat to be healthy. I have never been overweight and never lived to eat but rather I eat to live. I sometimes eat starchy carbs to feel better, rather than to throw my diabetes control out of the window.
I doubt there is anyone on this forum who does not try to do the best they can and unless your live our lives then you should not generalise.
No two diabetics are the same, we are not robots and I found your opening post offensive.
I try as hard as I can to manage my diabetes but have other conditions which need a different dietary approach. I have to juggle my menus depending on whether I am in the midst of a flare up from Crohn's disease, fibre can become a problem, or try to add more calcium to my menu, because of osteoporosis. It is a minefield for me and I do not think you understand the complexities that some of us have to go through to enable us to eat to be healthy. I have never been overweight and never lived to eat but rather I eat to live. I sometimes eat starchy carbs to feel better, rather than to throw my diabetes control out of the window.
I doubt there is anyone on this forum who does not try to do the best they can and unless your live our lives then you should not generalise.
Steff
Little Miss Chatterbox
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Great to see you post Cherry x
Wirrallass
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Hear hear cherrypie
Ipsi
Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Have to say: I love the forum. Healthy debate, even with a ranting buffoon like myself, is always useful.
Amigo: Exactly my mistake. Had I used my brain a little better I would have realised that the diabetics I've met that have annoyed me with their denial and ignorance are not likely to be the same ones that visit this forum. I've been dealing with them in my life, trying to get them to wake up to it, for years - way before I was diabetic. I even thought my own response to my diabetes might be a motivator or at least an example. It's frustrating when people you love are mismanaging a serious condition and just won't respond to reason. Hence the rant, I guess - displacement activity.
Funerals are inevitable for us all - I have to go to one on Monday for a friend who didn't get a problem checked out that turned out to be bowel cancer - but it's still hard to convince some people that quality of life in the interim doesn't revolve around a choc-ice and that by making the right choices and educating themselves they may actually improve their quality of life, even without the choc-ice.
I'm not talking about your few chips or biscuit, tested for and planned, I'm talking about those who use phrases like "a bit of what you fancy does you good" and "one can't hurt" to actually mean as much of what you "fancy" as you've always had and one, then another one, then another one etc.
I guess I'm just good at preaching to the converted.
Amigo: Exactly my mistake. Had I used my brain a little better I would have realised that the diabetics I've met that have annoyed me with their denial and ignorance are not likely to be the same ones that visit this forum. I've been dealing with them in my life, trying to get them to wake up to it, for years - way before I was diabetic. I even thought my own response to my diabetes might be a motivator or at least an example. It's frustrating when people you love are mismanaging a serious condition and just won't respond to reason. Hence the rant, I guess - displacement activity.
Funerals are inevitable for us all - I have to go to one on Monday for a friend who didn't get a problem checked out that turned out to be bowel cancer - but it's still hard to convince some people that quality of life in the interim doesn't revolve around a choc-ice and that by making the right choices and educating themselves they may actually improve their quality of life, even without the choc-ice.
I'm not talking about your few chips or biscuit, tested for and planned, I'm talking about those who use phrases like "a bit of what you fancy does you good" and "one can't hurt" to actually mean as much of what you "fancy" as you've always had and one, then another one, then another one etc.
I guess I'm just good at preaching to the converted.
mikeyB
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 1
Yup. I don't like being preached at by anyone. We all do our best - we are a self selected group who seek to learn from other members.
Its easy for me - I'm Type 1. I eat healthily, but I also occasionally eat chips. And a chocolate digestive now and then. That's what insulin is for. I couldn't exercise even if I wanted to. That's the trouble - we are all different, and all have our own little battles to fight, on our own or with help from others on the forum. And nobody is perfect, nobody has got the perfect answer to how to deal with diabetes. We can tell folk what works for us, but that doesn't mean it will work for everybody.
Let's all lighten up. And Ipsi, lesson learned, yes?
Its easy for me - I'm Type 1. I eat healthily, but I also occasionally eat chips. And a chocolate digestive now and then. That's what insulin is for. I couldn't exercise even if I wanted to. That's the trouble - we are all different, and all have our own little battles to fight, on our own or with help from others on the forum. And nobody is perfect, nobody has got the perfect answer to how to deal with diabetes. We can tell folk what works for us, but that doesn't mean it will work for everybody.
Let's all lighten up. And Ipsi, lesson learned, yes?
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