Which is best

[Lindatype1]

Is rye bread the best for a diabetic?

 

[Leadinglights]

Is rye bread the best for a diabetic?

Whether people can tolerate bread whatever the type is very individual. Some people can manage a slice without too much problem others can't tolerate even a mouthful.
Some breads are tolerated better than others so it is a bit of an experiment to find what might be best for your Hubby so you would need to test assuming you have a monitor.

 

[helli]

I am not sure whether the question was posed with regard to Type 1 or type 2 diabetes: @Lindatype1 has "Type 1" in her name but I think I remember seeing earlier posts asking for advice about type 2 for her husband.

The comments form @Leadinglights about bread tolerance mainly refer to people with type 2.

Type 1 is a different condition and we can tolerate carbs because we have the tools to do so - injected insulin.
As a home baker with Type 1, I eat all types of bread. Last weekend I made a loaf of sourdough, the weekend before some whole meal buns, this weekend, I made a rye pumpernickel loaf, next week, I will probably make something seedy.

Apologies for being pedantic. I know some people read around the forum for advice when they are newly diagnosed and it would be a shame if someone newly diagnosed with Type 1 decided to cut all bread (including a lovely soft focaccia or chewy bagel) from their diet unnecessarily.

 

[Docb]

Hi @Lindatype1. A quick look through your earlier posts suggests shows that your husband was waiting for reversal of a stoma and was experiencing high blood glucose levels which were being treated with both metformin and insulin. This might be the reason why the members above are a bit confused over whether he is type 1 or type 2.

How is he doing? Are his blood glucose levels still high and how is it being treated? Above all has his diabetes been confirmed as type 1 or type 2? I ask because the way you think about bread depends very much on the type of diabetes and how it is being treated.

 

[Drummer]

No - if you can tolerate carbs from bread then any bread is OK, and if you can't, there are things which you can eat instead.

 

[nonethewiser]

My mind has to be rye bread, taste of its own, worth paying extra for, thankfully most supermarkets now stock it.

 

[Lindatype1]

Hi @Lindatype1. A quick look through your earlier posts suggests shows that your husband was waiting for reversal of a stoma and was experiencing high blood glucose levels which were being treated with both metformin and insulin. This might be the reason why the members above are a bit confused over whether he is type 1 or type 2.

How is he doing? Are his blood glucose levels still high and how is it being treated? Above all has his diabetes been confirmed as type 1 or type 2? I ask because the way you think about bread depends very much on the type of diabetes and how it is being treated.

Hi Docb my husband his type 2, when he was first diagnosed over 15 years ago he was type 1just on metformin and that is why I have put type1 and i have always known it has that, I have only just found out that when he went on to insulin that it is known as tpye2. Must think that I am really dumb but my husband as always managed his diabetes, it's only since his cancer and looking into his blood glucose levels that I have found more out. His blood glucose is 80mmol which is to high for him to have the reversal and his kidney reading is at 14%. He has been very sick with sickness and diarrhoea not eating for 2 weeks now, it has improved over that last couple of days and he is having another blood test this Friday. I will go on my account and change it to type2 sorry for any confusion to members.

 

[Drummer]

Hi Docb my husband his type 2, when he was first diagnosed over 15 years ago he was type 1just on metformin and that is why I have put type1 and i have always known it has that, I have only just found out that when he went on to insulin that it is known as tpye2. Must think that I am really dumb but my husband as always managed his diabetes, it's only since his cancer and looking into his blood glucose levels that I have found more out. His blood glucose is 80mmol which is to high for him to have the reversal and his kidney reading is at 14%. He has been very sick with sickness and diarrhoea not eating for 2 weeks now, it has improved over that last couple of days and he is having another blood test this Friday. I will go on my account and change it to type2 sorry for any confusion to members.

What a worry for you both.
As your husband is a type 2 on insulin then his diet could be far more carb heavy than a type 2 only controlled by diet - I eat very low carb according to the usual way of thinking, but I do so to keep my blood glucose in the normal range.
For me, carbs are just carbs, there are no good or bad ones, I just eat low carb foods because that gives me as much variety as possible.
Using insulin, although there is the bother of calculating and checking and doing corrections it should be possible to keep blood glucose in the normal range eating ordinary amounts of carbs - as long as a person is willing to do the calculations. There is, I have read, a set of sick day rules for those using insulin - I am sure someone can direct you to them so as to get things under control again.
I hope his improvement continues.

 

[Docb]

Hi Docb my husband his type 2, when he was first diagnosed over 15 years ago he was type 1just on metformin and that is why I have put type1 and i have always known it has that, I have only just found out that when he went on to insulin that it is known as tpye2. Must think that I am really dumb but my husband as always managed his diabetes, it's only since his cancer and looking into his blood glucose levels that I have found more out. His blood glucose is 80mmol which is to high for him to have the reversal and his kidney reading is at 14%. He has been very sick with sickness and diarrhoea not eating for 2 weeks now, it has improved over that last couple of days and he is having another blood test this Friday. I will go on my account and change it to type2 sorry for any confusion to members.

Don't worry about causing a bit of confusion, there is a lot to take into account and we "get it" that it takes time to get everything sorted out in your mind.

Looks like he is best described as Type 2 which is being treated by insulin following cancer treatment. I am assuming the 80 you quote is his last HbA1c which explains why the surgeons are reluctant to do the reversal. Let's hope that the next blood test shows that things are heading in the right direction.

Do you have a blood test meter? Many of us have found that using a meter is an ideal tool for keeping track of blood glucose and finding out the effects that things we eat have on blood glucose. Different foods have different effects on different people and when you throw in the complications of treatment for other things it gets very difficult to predict what might happen with some specific foodstuff. Testing before and after eating is a better guide.

To come back to your original question about rye bread. The more sensible reply is that you cannot generalise. Rye bread may be better for some but you cannot say it would be better for all. Its around 50% carbohydrate but whether the type of carbohydrate in rye will cause a lower blood glucose rise than any other flour will to some extent depend on the individual.

One thing for sure is that you and your husband have a lot of things to juggle at the moment. Hope things go well and you get some better news after the next blood test.

 

[Nayshiftin]

No - if you can tolerate carbs from bread then any bread is OK, and if you can't, there are things which you can eat instead, but real bread should be avoided.

Then its on all the diabetic diets from the diabetic society and dietician. I think some of the no carb policy can be wrong even for type 2. Its so confusing and I would like this debated by experts so we can know what we are doing. Nowt personal to you Drummer but why say real bread should be avoided?

 

[Leadinglights]

Then its on all the diabetic diets from the diabetic society and dietician. I think some of the no carb policy can be wrong even for type 2. Its so confusing and I would like this debated by experts so we can know what we are doing. Nowt personal to you Drummer but why say real bread should be avoided?

By real bread, I think that is referring to bread made with normal flour rather than some of the 'keto' breads that some people make very successfully using almond flour and other low carb ingredients or some of the low carb breads that people can get in the supermarket.
To my mind 'real bread' is good quality artisan bread or home made bread, all be it with normal flour and that is what makes it worth eating if you can tolerate it. For me that is worth the carbs rather than a biscuit or piece of cake or bag of crisps.
As with many things moderation is the key and testing what you can tolerate.

 

[rebrascora]

Then its on all the diabetic diets from the diabetic society and dietician. I think some of the no carb policy can be wrong even for type 2. Its so confusing and I would like this debated by experts so we can know what we are doing. Nowt personal to you Drummer but why say real bread should be avoided?

I think there is a big difference between saying that "we don't actually need carbs" and suggesting that "we aim for zero carbs" and no one here is actually recommending the latter because it would be a very boring diet and extremely hard work and probably quite expensive to maintain..... meat and fish is not cheap and not sure I could live on eggs, eggs and more eggs day in and day out. Think my bowels might object too 😱
Personally, much as I used to love bread, I don't miss it now and odd occasions when I have some I find it is a bit of a disappointment, so it is relatively easy for me to just not bother with it anymore and because I live on my own, it is not in the house, so no temptation. My partner, whose house I visit, occasionally buys a large Tiger Loaf which smells good but I know it wouldn't be worth the insulin it would need and I just don't crave it anymore. I appreciate being Type 1 at least gives me a choice because I have insulin but then so does the OP's partner. I am the same with potatoes. I dug some catch crops up out of the garden a month ago (didn't plant any the last 2 years due to not using them anymore) and still not eaten them and I used to absolutely adore home grown potatoes. I would rather "spend" 2 units of insulin on a big plate of ratatouile (which still contains carbs just lower carb veggies) as 4 units of insulin on a few spuds. That is just the way I see it now. I "spend" my insulin to get maximum value for money or in the case of food, maximum nutrition, flavour and colour in my diet, rather than the "bulk" that carbs provide. My body doesn't need those carb rich foods and not eating them has stopped me craving them and I love the control that gives me.

 

[Fagor]

I love rye most rye breads, the darker and dryer the better. But they are not easily available where I live so temptation is limited.
But they tend to be high in carbs so have to remember to adjust units to allow for the difference in carbs and probably having a bit extra.

 

[nonethewiser]

I love rye most rye breads, the darker and dryer the better. But they are not easily available where I live so temptation is limited.
But they tend to be high in carbs so have to remember to adjust units to allow for the difference in carbs and probably having a bit extra.

Not to keen on German rye bread, that is dark & heavy in texture, all others fine.

 

[helli]

Not to keen on German rye bread, that is dark & heavy in texture, all others fine.

This is the pumpernickel bread recipe I followed at the weekend. It made beautifully light German rye bread (cooked in England 🙂 ).

 

[Inka]

I find rye bread very good - and very tasty! It’s also nice and substantial but not in a bloating way. Another good bread is sourdough bread. I find that easier on my tummy and slower to raise blood sugar.

 

[Inka]

..my husband his type 2, when he was first diagnosed over 15 years ago he was type 1just on metformin and that is why I have put type1 and i have always known it has that, I have only just found out that when he went on to insulin that it is known as tpye2. Must think that I am really dumb..

You’re most definitely not dumb at all @Lindatype1 There’s no reason why you would have to know everything about diabetes or the difference between diabetes types. There are lots of medical conditions that we personally don’t know much about until we have to learn. That’s totally normal.

There’s some explanation here:

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/diabetes-the-basics/differences-between-type-1-and-type-2-diabetes

If you’re after a shorter definition, then I’d say that it’s important to know that Type 1 and Type 2 are different conditions. The numbers 1 and 2 denote two different types of conditions. The numbers 1 and 2 are not grades of seriousness or progression.

Type 1 is an auto-immune condition where the body attacks it’s own insulin-producing cells and destroys them. So Type 1s always have to take insulin for life.

Type 2 is a different type of diabetes. Some Type 2s can control their blood sugar with diet only, some with medication like Metformin, and some need insulin. The ones that need insulin are still Type 2s. They simply become Type 2s on insulin. They do not become Type 1. That is because, although they both take insulin, they take the insulin for different reasons and they remain the diabetes type they were diagnosed.

 

[Drummer]

Then its on all the diabetic diets from the diabetic society and dietician. I think some of the no carb policy can be wrong even for type 2. Its so confusing and I would like this debated by experts so we can know what we are doing. Nowt personal to you Drummer but why say real bread should be avoided?

As an ordinary unmedicated type 2 I don't eat breads made with with the usual ingredients - my blood glucose meter showed why in the early days of recovery - and I just don't need it.
Using wheat gluten and milled seeds, low carb flours I can concoct a very tasty loaf, but do not do so often as I find I prefer to take my carbs as colourful plants and berries and benefit from all the vitamins and minerals that come with them. I have been eating low carb since diagnosis, and I feel so much better - I really would like everyone who had got to where I was at diagnosis to experience the same sort of revival and rejuvenation.
It is not a no carb policy - except for those who decide to try out complete carnivore, and it is possible to tailor food to individual needs, and to restore metabolic health just as a side effect.
I have been given advice by various people now - but not one of them has cured themselves nor can they claim to have known anyone who took their advice and saw the improvements I have experienced.
At almost 5 years from recovery I can now eat more carbs and only see my weight increase - no change there then, but if I do eat carbs it is a double jersey cream ice cream in a chocolate dipped cone, and choc chip mint and ginger flavour ice creams. I have had two this year, because I can.

 

[ianf0ster]

I think there is a big difference between saying that "we don't actually need carbs" and suggesting that "we aim for zero carbs" and no one here is actually recommending the latter because it would be a very boring diet and extremely hard work and probably quite expensive to maintain..... meat and fish is not cheap and not sure I could live on eggs, eggs and more eggs day in and day out. ................................................................................................................................................I would rather "spend" 2 units of insulin on a big plate of ratatouile (which still contains carbs just lower carb veggies) as 4 units of insulin on a few spuds. That is just the way I see it now. I "spend" my insulin to get maximum value for money or in the case of food, maximum nutrition, flavour and colour in my diet, rather than the "bulk" that carbs provide. My body doesn't need those carb rich foods and not eating them has stopped me craving them and I love the control that gives me.

As a Type 2 on no medication and with normal non-diabetic HbA1C for over 1yr, I agree that zero carbs is not a goal. I could probably do it in the short term, but I would hate it - so it isn't sustainable for me.

Like insulin users such as you do with insulin, I look at 'spending' my carb allocation (the type and amount of carbs that my body can cope with). I know (mainly via the 'red diabetes forum') many Type 2's in remission, who are completely carnivore or almost completely, I know others who are keto, some like me on the outskirts of keto and others who are barely even low carb (approx 130gms carbs per day). We are all different and it is important to both know what you can sustain and also what your body can tolerate. If my carb tolerance increased I would eat more carbs, I would love to be able to eat mango again it was my favourite fruit and I used to eat over a kilo per day when visiting in-laws in Thailand.

I know some forum members feel I'm fanatical about low carb - I'm not, just fanatical about knowing our own diseases and our own bodies. For diabetics, a Blood Glucose meter of some sort is vital in achieving that.

 

[Inka]

@Drummer Plenty of people have achieved equally good results to yours using different diets. The point is that there are a variety of diets that can work for Type 2. I keep posting this and I’m sure you and Ian think I do it to have a go at you but, enthusiastic as you are, I don’t think you fully realise how much such comments can affect people - not only the newly diagnosed, but people diagnosed for a while too.

To say something like “real bread should be avoided” is simply wrong. It also causes people stress and to doubt themselves and worry. There is a big difference between saying something like “real bread should be avoided” and “some people can tolerate a moderate amount of bread but some can’t”.

@Nayshiftin You do not have to avoid bread. You have to choose a diet that works for you. That might include bread, it might not. There are various diets that can help.

Here’s the thread again. It’s a reminder that there is no One True Diet, and making extreme statements isn’t helpful:

https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/a-broad-church-low-carb-is-not-the-only-way.91369/

“While there may be some common ground between approaches, there is no one way that works for everyone, and is appropriate for every situation. Specifically carbohydrates are not inherently ‘bad’, and should not be unfairly demonised any more than any other macronutrient. Some people will have a very low tolerance for carbohydrates, and may need to be particularly careful, and that's absolutely fine if it's the apporach that works for them, but that isn't necessarily the case for everyone. Everything in moderation, except laughter as AlanS used to say.”

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