Which is best

[helli]

Very well said @Inka.

I was looking for @everydayupsanddowns post earlier as it is a great reminder that we are all different have different tolerances, different abilities, different lifestyles, different lives and we need a way to manage our condition that suits all of our life/body not just the diabetes part.

It is also important to remember that mental health is important but mental health problems are higher in people with diabetes than in the general population so it is key to remember this when choosing our language.

 

[Drummer]

Unfortunately if I was to tell someone go at this problem in a half hearted manner, you will crave carbs as you try to cut down and probably feel dreadful for weeks as you try to control the cravings at the same time, you probably won't feel like exercising and most likely you'll give in and eat cake or biscuits, but you can always try again and feel dreadful about it, and you won't really have done any harm because you will not have checked your blood glucose so it never happened - then I might as well have walked into the sea in those dreadful weeks just after diagnosis.

If I hadn't got down to normal numbers with almost no effort, I might feel slightly guilty about my recommendations - but not just after eating gently simmered beefsteak and mushrooms with a little onion and tomato blended to make the gravy and just a little horseradish - yes it was absolutely delicious.
I can't even eat the apple I went out and picked earlier - it was to be most of my carbs for the day, but they are not something I think of it as a 'treat'.

 

[Inka]

@Drummer Not everyone has a compulsion to over-eat carbs when they have a moderate amount. That’s an issue that’s yours. I notice you lost a good amount of weight (50lbs) according to your signature. You’ve not updated that. How much more have you lost/what’s your BMI?

You also appear to have missed the points made. The point is there are a number of possible diets that help Type 2. Your statement about bread was wrong. Carbs shouldn’t be demonised nor members made to feel anxious or guilty or worried. And that last point is not hypothetical. I often see members here worried because they’ve supposedly ‘sinned’ by eating a piece of toast or whatever.

 

[helli]

@Drummer i appreciate I have Type 1 which is a completely different condition to type 2 but you write as if anyone who eats carbs will have a compulsion to binge on them and do no exercise. I vary my carbs - never keto but some days I have more than 200g and other days I have less than 100g. I exercise every day. Carbs do not make me feel sluggish.

The symptoms and feelings you describe are about you. We are all different and do not all feel sluggish or feel that we are treating diabetes half hearted if we have a slice of toast or have cravings for more carbs when we celebrate a birthday with a slice of cake.

The point I made about mental health is very important. We should be nice to each other and not make other members, who maybe mentally fragile with a new diagnosis, to feel guilty and anxious.

Please read https://www.diabetes.org.uk/diabetes-the-basics/differences-between-type-1-and-type-2-diabetes again.

 

[Drummer]

Most of the posts I reply to are type twos newly diagnosed - many of them terrified, often in poor health with debilitating illnesses on top of their condition and many of them having been given bad advice - I really am not advising type ones to eat low carb, nor people who can exercise.
If you want to advise the overweight almost housebound newcomers, by all means set to work.
The symptoms and feelings are not about me - I was out in Wareham at the Folk Harvest at the weekend, walking for miles and playing for long sword dancing - I am fine, I have gone back to work and am remaking my winter clothes yet again as I have shrunk out of them.
I went to the folk club to sing on Sunday, dance practice on Monday and will be out again on Thursday. I am really busy - so feel free to assure the newly diagnosed that they have not given themselves diabetes, reassure them that they can beat it, and then stay ready to give them advice when they think that they should be eating wholemeal bread and brown rice - oh - don't forget to tell them where they can buy a blood glucose meter, and help them with starting to use it and understanding their readings, and understand and encourage rebellion when their nurse tells them that they should not test, and when their doctor tells them that it will make them anxious and unhappy to see their numbers, even if they are dropping week by week as you guide them through the foods they should be eating.

 

[Inka]

To be clear @Drummer my comments to you were about Type 2s. There have been a number of occasions when scared new members have been ‘jumped on’ and bombarded with extreme low carb advice and upsetting comments. It’s not helpful at all.

Why do you think @everydayupsanddowns made that thread? That’s a rhetorical question, by the way. I believe you know the answer.

 

[Nayshiftin]

I am very selfish here and trying to help myself. I am very down so I might come across wrong but I mean no one or their ideas any harm. I am not confrontational I am just so confused with this . a bit of history and what is going on might allow you to help me. I was HbA1c 76 when I knew I had to change and I did do the pin prick and bm was 22 plus for a while, So I tested before and two hours after and yes then carbs did make my blood sugar rocket so I stopped them and did that for a while then I had another HbA1c and it lowered to Scotland and I have been eating really naughty and bad and still no change. I for example was 11plus yesterday before breakfast this halfs to 6.1 post breakfast which was two slices of toast normal bread and tomatoes then I was 4.6 at lunch and as anniversary was naughty again at seaside and I had a full portion of fish n chips so a plateful with garden peas . I had beans and toast and grated cheese for supper. I did not test last night for fear how high it would be and this morning I awake to 8.1 mmols. So tell me if that goes it will be low after I eat. I don't want to go too low as I get shaky and scared. I know you have been through it and hats of to you but what is going on with me. I am low eating all these bad things so I don't understand all this now. perhaps this is normal and I don't need to worry. I do see the nurse next week. But I am scared to go carb free now for Hypos. My cousin has HSS and I am petrified I go too high and count myself lucky I did not ignore. I am however mood swinging like and hubby wants the calmer me back and also I am not loosing the weight as I was doing. No doubt due to naughty eating I know. I have ordered the low carb cook book as what is low and high is not the books for me at the moment. I want almost to go back on a diet that will help me lose and keep me stable and well to feel life is not a scary place and not to feel I need to eat asap as shaky and be able to stop dropping things. Thats another help me situation as I am scared I break things or drop things that will hurt someone. I actually feel better mood wise just telling you this so hope it is taken as meant.

 

[Inka]

Are you on any medication for the diabetes @Nayshiftin ?

 

[Nayshiftin]

Unfortunately if I was to tell someone go at this problem in a half hearted manner, you will crave carbs as you try to cut down and probably feel dreadful for weeks as you try to control the cravings at the same time, you probably won't feel like exercising and most likely you'll give in and eat cake or biscuits, but you can always try again and feel dreadful about it, and you won't really have done any harm because you will not have checked your blood glucose so it never happened - then I might as well have walked into the sea in those dreadful weeks just after diagnosis.

If I hadn't got down to normal numbers with almost no effort, I might feel slightly guilty about my recommendations - but not just after eating gently simmered beefsteak and mushrooms with a little onion and tomato blended to make the gravy and just a little horseradish - yes it was absolutely delicious.
I can't even eat the apple I went out and picked earlier - it was to be most of my carbs for the day, but they are not something I think of it as a 'treat'.

I am sorry people have got to you and all I am going to say is I am happy you are doing what has worked for you. It could be the makings of another also. It is up to the individual to read and take what they need. If I question its not saying your right or your wrong its to get me to a place I am content to do it your way or not. We are all responsible for our own bodies and helping ourselves. I say hats off you have lost you are in better control and Good luck you keep going for you.

 

[Nayshiftin]

Are you on any medication for the diabetes @Nayshiftin ?

No I am not on any medication

 

[Inka]

Ok 🙂 I know you’re feeling very down at the moment and I also know that’s a horrible place to be and a kind of spiral it’s hard to get off. If you’re feeling really down, do speak to your GP. There’s no shame in needing a bit of extra support sometimes.

If you’re not on any meds, you’re unlikely to have hypos, but if your blood sugar swings high then drops back down that can make you feel really rough, physically and mentally. It can also mess up blood sugar control. I think if I was you, I’d try to introduce an element of stability to your diet so that you’re having roughly the same amount of carbs every day and eating roughly at the same times. Once you’ve got that set up and going, you can then look to see if that level of carbs needs reducing.

Yes, losing weight will help but I know that’s much easier to say than do. However, stability in your diet should help stabilise your appetite too. It will help you get off the rollercoaster of blood sugar.

 

[Nayshiftin]

Ok 🙂 I know you’re feeling very down at the moment and I also know that’s a horrible place to be and a kind of spiral it’s hard to get off. If you’re feeling really down, do speak to your GP. There’s no shame in needing a bit of extra support sometimes.

If you’re not on any meds, you’re unlikely to have hypos, but if your blood sugar swings high then drops back down that can make you feel really rough, physically and mentally. It can also mess up blood sugar control. I think if I was you, I’d try to introduce an element of stability to your diet so that you’re having roughly the same amount of carbs every day and eating roughly at the same times. Once you’ve got that set up and going, you can then look to see if that level of carbs needs reducing.

Yes, losing weight will help but I know that’s much easier to say than do. However, stability in your diet should help stabilise your appetite too. It will help you get off the rollercoaster of blood sugar.

Sound advice, I do usually eat at the same times of day. I will however try and stabilise carbs . Where would you start with amount. I will start using my fitness pal again but need to try and put in an amount . I had porridge for breakfast and I know I plan to have aubergine and courgette parmesan tonight . Just have lunch to think about and maybe a couple of snacks . At the moment I’m full up so that’s a bonus. Yes I am trying to be kind and think of the good in the day . I will wait to see nurse as think food and mood are what’s up really. In Scotland it was full on and I ate haggis and things which I love. Holiday is over so I’ll soon get back to normal . So even though it goes to 3 it will not go lower?

 

[Inka]

@Nayshiftin What I’d do is think of a few average days’ meals - the kind of thing you eat when you’re ‘being good’. Total up the carbs of each of those days then work out the average. That would be a sensible starting point. I don’t think you have to have exactly the same amount of carbs every day, but keep the amount within a smallish range. I also think that choosing the right carbs will help - ie ones with a low GI.

Even with something like porridge, there’s a huge variety of types and they do make a difference. I go for whole jumbo oats. The one I’m having at the moment is Tesco Finest. I can see the difference in my blood sugar compared to, say, those cheap bags of oats you can get.

The fact your blood sugar drops down to 3 suggests to me that your body is over-reacting because it’s ability to produce appropriate amounts of insulin at the right time is messed up. That’s not uncommon. If you eat low GI carbs and make sure to have some protein and fat with them too, they should hopefully be absorbed slower and your body will find that easier.

After your gentle start, you’ll naturally settle on a carb amount that works for you. You can adjust that amount as you go along. Whatever diet/carb amount you choose will have to be something do-able and something that works for you as an individual because you’ll have to continue with it and continue happily. Diets should be a positive thing - a good, healthful way of eating - not a punishment. So, focus on all the good things you can eat not the things you have to limit. Explore new veg, new dressings, new food combinations.

Salads or soups are nice for lunch. I found I’d got into a rut with sandwiches. Finding some new salad recipes was exciting and I’ve found some great new tastes as well as increasing my veg intake. I’m Type 1 and I add carbs to accompany my salad. If you want a few carbs but not too many, you could look at the posh lower carb crackers. You can then count out the number you need/want and it makes it easy to control and measure your carbs.

Your planned Aubergine and Courgette Parmesan sounds delicious 🙂

 

[nonethewiser]

This is the pumpernickel bread recipe I followed at the weekend. It made beautifully light German rye bread (cooked in England 🙂 ).

Very nice, must invest in bread maker as eat it most days for lunch, sandwich side salad & coleslaw.

On our travels often pop in cafe bakers restaurant & try out artisan breads on offer, really delicious & expertly baked, always liked bread always will.

 

[Drummer]

Very nice, must invest in bread maker as eat it most days for lunch, sandwich side salad & coleslaw.

On our travels often pop in cafe bakers restaurant & try out artisan breads on offer, really delicious & expertly baked, always liked bread always will.

I bought a bread maker and it is too harsh to use on the more fragile doughs - after looking really good, the final kneading collapses it. I have experimented, got all sorts of bready possibilities and never got a good low carb loaf. Medium, half ordinary bread dough half low carb, yes, that will take the pounding, but I need to go lower.
It would be OK to use the machine for the donkey work of making the dough, then remove it and knead in the yeast - though you need to get the right yeast type, then allow the dough to rise in the tins for as long as it needs so you get a good loaf, otherwise it can be very dense and heavy.

 

[Leadinglights]

I bought a bread maker and it is too harsh to use on the more fragile doughs - after looking really good, the final kneading collapses it. I have experimented, got all sorts of bready possibilities and never got a good low carb loaf. Medium, half ordinary bread dough half low carb, yes, that will take the pounding, but I need to go lower.
It would be OK to use the machine for the donkey work of making the dough, then remove it and knead in the yeast - though you need to get the right yeast type, then allow the dough to rise in the tins for as long as it needs so you get a good loaf, otherwise it can be very dense and heavy.

We had quite a good bread maker but it's replacement was useless so we (or rather my OH) uses a food processor with dough hook for the initial mixing then does the rest by hand. He usually does a batch of 5 different mixes which we freeze so it lasts quite a while. Mostly very successful.

 

[Nayshiftin]

@Nayshiftin What I’d do is think of a few average days’ meals - the kind of thing you eat when you’re ‘being good’. Total up the carbs of each of those days then work out the average. That would be a sensible starting point. I don’t think you have to have exactly the same amount of carbs every day, but keep the amount within a smallish range. I also think that choosing the right carbs will help - ie ones with a low GI.

Even with something like porridge, there’s a huge variety of types and they do make a difference. I go for whole jumbo oats. The one I’m having at the moment is Tesco Finest. I can see the difference in my blood sugar compared to, say, those cheap bags of oats you can get.

The fact your blood sugar drops down to 3 suggests to me that your body is over-reacting because it’s ability to produce appropriate amounts of insulin at the right time is messed up. That’s not uncommon. If you eat low GI carbs and make sure to have some protein and fat with them too, they should hopefully be absorbed slower and your body will find that easier.

After your gentle start, you’ll naturally settle on a carb amount that works for you. You can adjust that amount as you go along. Whatever diet/carb amount you choose will have to be something do-able and something that works for you as an individual because you’ll have to continue with it and continue happily. Diets should be a positive thing - a good, healthful way of eating - not a punishment. So, focus on all the good things you can eat not the things you have to limit. Explore new veg, new dressings, new food combinations.

Salads or soups are nice for lunch. I found I’d got into a rut with sandwiches. Finding some new salad recipes was exciting and I’ve found some great new tastes as well as increasing my veg intake. I’m Type 1 and I add carbs to accompany my salad. If you want a few carbs but not too many, you could look at the posh lower carb crackers. You can then count out the number you need/want and it makes it easy to control and measure your carbs.

Your planned Aubergine and Courgette Parmesan sounds delicious 🙂

It’s from the website here and we love it. Hubby makes it different to me and yes it’s not carb friendly but I’m still below ten so at the moment I’m going with that. I’m going to forget my diabetes and concentrate on my arthritis and mood as I feel that’s priority fir my well-being now. Winter always makes it difficult and I think if I get myself out of pain snd inflammation I’ll feel better and mood will improve and hopefully everything else will too. Diet all this is making me down so I’ve looked here most type 2 ignore their blood sugars and so be it.

 

[helli]

We got rid of our bread maker when I got into bread making as I enjoy kneading by hand.
It is a great way to take out my weekly frustrations and produce something yummy whilst keeping my bingo wings at bay.
I also do some of my baking by feel as different flour needs different amount of liquids in different weather so weighing everything accurately does not always work.

 

[nonethewiser]

I bought a bread maker and it is too harsh to use on the more fragile doughs - after looking really good, the final kneading collapses it. I have experimented, got all sorts of bready possibilities and never got a good low carb loaf. Medium, half ordinary bread dough half low carb, yes, that will take the pounding, but I need to go lower.
It would be OK to use the machine for the donkey work of making the dough, then remove it and knead in the yeast - though you need to get the right yeast type, then allow the dough to rise in the tins for as long as it needs so you get a good loaf, otherwise it can be very dense and heavy.

No advice to offer, never used bread maker before. Ex work colleague would set his off before bed & wake to delicious smell of fresh bread, his machine did lot just added ingredients & away it went.

 

[Drummer]

No advice to offer, never used bread maker before. Ex work colleague would set his off before bed & wake to delicious smell of fresh bread, his machine did lot just added ingredients & away it went.

Mine too - except when you open the lid there is a loaf with a sunken circle in the middle where the last bashing with the stirrer knocked all the CO2 out of the centre of the mixture and it never recovered.