The Gender Distressed Agenda

[maryjaneholland]

I have mentioned my gender dysphoria here before and mostly ignored, that's fine, but every so often the effort required to manage my diabetes and all my medical conditions and live in society as virtual slave to the latest public attacks against the entire LGBTQIA+ Communities who most certainly bend the rules of gender, break gendered stereotypes and would be rounded up and shot as "Gender Traitors" in Handmaid's Tale-type post-apocalyptic fundamentalist religious zealot society, it's often all too much for me to handle...

So I am choosing not to repeat or give platform or any credibility to the ridiculous commentaries made about me and people like me by our learned educated cisgendered zero understanding of gender dysphoria "concerned voices" in the press and in government who today may be positing that world without an entire minority group would make life so much easier for everyone else, and yet tomorrow you may find your self being put in that category of being annexed from humanity and scheduled for extinction and extermination for being slightly different in some other way, as society makes no room and no allowances for you and your uniqueness...

And if you are gender distressed in any way, learn to exaggerate and celebrate your differences and allow your self to embrace friendly queer communities and experience trans love and gender euphoria and know you are not alone... We're here, we're queer and we're not going anywhere, umm-hmm, snap... 😉

 

[Vonny]

I'd be very surprised if there was anyone on this forum who would attack anyone for gender issues; it's too non-judgmental a forum.
Speaking for myself, although I am hetero female binary, I have a lot of gay friends (male and female) and a transgender friend so I have some idea of the issues they are faced with and it's a huge shame. I know how upset my friend was when a porter at an Oxford college we were staying in called her "sir". She has undergone full transition.
The internet can be a horrid place sometimes, and it's best to stick to the tried and trusted sites where you're not going to be judged for who you are x

 

[Satan’s little helper]

Hello, I’m not going to give you my history regarding the people in my life. It’s a stacked “Neapolitan icecream.”
Your diabetes is basically your diabetes. High BGs can take its toll on emotions whoever we are?
Are you “ignored?” No. I’ve alway Apreciated the diversity of life. There have been discussions. Even my own life does not conform to the “norm.” As a child & teen I was misidentified regarding my gender. (Or even orientation.)

As an aside. Regarding the “handmaid’s tale.” I saw a reasonable assessment on what would happen if 2 individuals fell back into an “Adam & Eve” scenario after an apocalyptic event? (I don’t do religion.)
The narrator looks & sounds somehow like Garry Barlow from Take that?

 

[maryjaneholland]

@Vonny thanks for your kind words, I have no idea what's right place or space to express where my diabetes intersects with my personal life any longer, but I have found Facebook and Twitter to be the most toxic places for anonymous bullies to hone their craft bullying very vulnerable naive and often desperately lonely people trying to find community and support and wouldn't recommend anyone struggling with matters of gender/sexuality/identity to bare their soul in such forums... I also kindly note that "fully transitioning" with surgery suits some people, but everyone's requests for respect and dignity around their preferred titles or pronouns or names does not depend upon genitalia or surgery or hormones or gender clinics for validation, and all drag is valid too ha! 😉

@Satan’s little helper yes your experiences are of course completely legitimate and there are many cases of cisgendered people not fitting perceived gender norms experiencing hate crime and transphobia type crimes as result of misidentification, whether or not anything was reported to the police, and I'm not posting to say "I'm a special flower" either or playing the victim, it just sucks I guess where there's this focal point of not fully managing diabetes (not losing weight, not following low calorie diet, beating my self up badly), not coping with all of my health issues but not having the energy to fight the NHS either (I'm a loser!), and then the final straw of yet more copouts from the government not providing any healthcare or treatment to young people presenting with gender dysphoria and then the usual mudslinging loudmouths who are not medically or clinically qualified just randomly assigning the ridiculous term "gender distressed" which sounds like angry teenagers having temper tantrums and blowing up Barbie dolls with firecrackers to express their angst, or similar, as phase they will grow out of to become "normal" adults... So yes everyone experiences pain and suffering, but clinical diagnosis of "gender dysphoria" still required to access gender clinic healthcare and treatment in many countries is equally as valid as being clinically diagnosed with mental health issues, or even diabetes, it's condition requiring management and sympathetic treatment and healthcare from understanding practitioners as statistically there are very grim outcomes, very high suicide rates, very high self-harming rates, very high rates of sectioning on secure psychiatric wards, very high rates of mental distress and shortened lifespans, much higher risk of being victim of violent crime or murder... Maybe Gary Barlow has written catchy radio friendly piano bar song about this for Pride events, who knows?!

Highly recommend Pink News as counter to all the misinformation written about LGBTQIA+ Communities, with big dollop of shallow pop culture gossip thrown in for good measure... https://www.thepinknews.com/

And Bob The Drag Queen currently touring the world as "Emcee Host" and Professional Clown opening for Madonna's Celebration Tour explains how drag can be very useful political tool in bringing the queer community together to fight back for our human rights and equality again as every generation must, don't get too comfortable, y'all hear...

 

[maryjaneholland]

Gender is a social construct... We all perform gender in our every day lives... And we are all born naked and the rest is drag... Our language is also very binary gendered, so here's the binge-watching overload of drag queens, drag kings, trans and queer and non-binary communities performing to express themselves and create safe space community in hostile environments you never knew you needed to experience, werk, slay, the boots house down mama, yasss qween!!!

We're Here | HBO

The six-part unscripted series recruits small-town residents across America to participate in a one-night-only drag show. In each episode, drag queens Shange...

m.youtube.com

HBO WE'RE HERE SEASON 1/2/3 CLIPS YOUTUBE PLAYLIST! GET IT GHURL!!

 

[nonethewiser]

Have no issues with people being referred to their preferred pronouns, that is everyone's right & totally respect that, but biologically your born either male or female, that cannot be changed no matter what.

Sorry if that offends anyone but its a simple fact of life as far as I'm concerned.

 

[harbottle]

Have no issues with people being referred to their preferred pronouns, that is everyone's right & totally respect that, but biologically your born either male or female, that cannot be changed no matter what.

Sorry if that offends anyone but its a simple fact of life as far as I'm concerned.

Except it's not true, and not a fact of life, or a fact of genetics.

There are a number of conditions that make biological sex ambiguous, such as Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (Both X and Y chromosomes exist along with high levels of testosterone, but the physical appearance is female.) and some children are born with ambiguous genitalia and are assigned a gender based on tests.

 

[Thebearcametoo]

Have no issues with people being referred to their preferred pronouns, that is everyone's right & totally respect that, but biologically your born either male or female, that cannot be changed no matter what.

Sorry if that offends anyone but its a simple fact of life as far as I'm concerned.

With respect that is a very simplified understanding of biology. Intersex people are about as common as red heads. Sex expression requires a huge mix of genetics and hormones and there are many cases of people who are born with ‘female’ genitals who have anti androgen factors and at puberty naturally transition to ‘male’. It’s more common in some communities than others and the social understanding of it in those communities is fascinating. Universities used to commonly use ‘sex’ dna as a learning tool until too many people found they had chromosomes that didn’t match their expressed sex (it’s relatively common to have more than 2 sex chromosomes). The human body is endlessly fascinating and we tend to talk in commonalities or generalities about it but when you look in detail it’s often not as simple as our perceived understanding would have us believe.

 

[Inka]

Except it's not true, and not a fact of life, or a fact of genetics.

There are a number of conditions that make biological sex ambiguous, such as Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (Both X and Y chromosomes exist along with high levels of testosterone, but the physical appearance is female.) and some children are born with ambiguous genitalia and are assigned a gender based on tests.

As someone with a relative with a DSD, I can assure you that they find this very, very offensive. They are not ‘other’. They have a sex just like everyone else. And they weren’t assigned a gender, their sex was identified after further tests because it wasn’t immediately obvious at birth.

People with DSDs are nothing to do with transpeople and many have objected to being mistakenly used to prove they’re some kind of ‘in between’. DSDs are sex specific.

 

[Inka]

With respect that is a very simplified understanding of biology. Intersex people are about as common as red heads. Sex expression requires a huge mix of genetics and hormones and there are many cases of people who are born with ‘female’ genitals who have anti androgen factors and at puberty naturally transition to ‘male’. It’s more common in some communities than others and the social understanding of it in those communities is fascinating. Universities used to commonly use ‘sex’ dna as a learning tool until too many people found they had chromosomes that didn’t match their expressed sex (it’s relatively common to have more than 2 sex chromosomes). The human body is endlessly fascinating and we tend to talk in commonalities or generalities about it but when you look in detail it’s often not as simple as our perceived understanding would have us believe.

Oh *trying not to swear*…..

No, they’re not as common as red heads!! The number of babies whose sex can’t be identified at birth is tiny. It’s around 0.02%! The redhead thing is a ridiculous, untrue meme, which includes women with PCOS, etc! And the term is people with DSDs or VSDs, thanks.

And yes, @nonethewiser is correct. There are two sexes. That’s a fact. That fact in no way denies the existence of trans people.

 

[harbottle]

As someone with a relative with a DSD, I can assure you that they find this very, very offensive. They are not ‘other’. They have a sex just like everyone else. And they weren’t assigned a gender, their sex was identified after further tests because it wasn’t immediately obvious at birth.

People with DSDs are nothing to do with transpeople and many have objected to being mistakenly used to prove they’re some kind of ‘in between’. DSDs are sex specific.

I never said they were 'other'?!

 

[Inka]

I never said they were 'other'?!

You’re implying they’re not male or female like every other human being - that they’re ‘other’. Comments like yours, however moderately meant, have caused a huge amount of upset to people with DSDs. My relative will no longer look at social media or similar due to this.

They are as much male/female as you. Karyotypes arent sexes.

 

[Inka]

Sex expression requires a huge mix of genetics and hormones and there are many cases of people who are born with ‘female’ genitals who have anti androgen factors and at puberty naturally transition to ‘male’.

They don’t transition to male, if you’re talking about things like 5ard. Their sex remains the same as it was at birth. Sometimes their sex is misidentified at birth, and then becomes apparent at puberty. Sex expression isn’t sex.

 

[Inka]

But - this is all off topic in Mary Jane’s thread, which is about their feelings and about trans people not people with DSDs. The two things are different.

 

[maryjaneholland]

Apologies I never intended to cause arguments or grief or offend anyone with DSD who would surely be embraced by the LGBTQIA+ Communities if they wanted to be as it's very broad church, I'm sure one of the participants in "We're Here" has hormone imbalance medical condition, alongside coming out as LGBTQIA+ in some way, and they are indeed fully accepted and supported as themselves by their small town community and it's very life affirming when you are down to be reminded that everyone deserves dignity and respect and to be included in society, a simple hopeful message, which I'm sure there are many parallels with individual people's journies with diabetes fighting for healthcare and treatment and understanding from friends and families and the stigmas around carrying and using needles for insulin, or being classed as having "lifestyle condition" allowing all kinds of harsh judgments to be aired publicly.

I have not been tested for DSD, but I am happy as an adult in the spirit of raising awareness to clearly state I was assigned on my birth certificate as "male" and I had genital surgery due to medical conditions as child, and I have always been misidentified throughout my life based on subjective opinions, my sister dressed me in conventional "girls clothing and make-up" in similar way to "We're Here" and presented me on foreign holiday to children of similar age as girl with conventional female name, and everyone just accepted me as very feminine-looking child, no problems, and this only became problem in Church funded high school run like an old-fashioned grammar school where all kinds of bullying and abuse was tolerated and I was ostracised until I left for art college, where I inevitably met lots of queer folks and supportive allies and was free to express my self also...

Everyone who uses this support forum discloses details about their personal lives, it's very difficult to separate complex condition like diabetes from the rest of your life, so if your only contribution on diabetes support forum is to tell other people living with diabetes that the other parts of their lives are "invalid" then maybe you need to think about why you are spending so much time on support forum as you will be exposed to other people's lives day after day post after post...

I also highlight again that on this support forum, it's OK for conventional straight married people with kids to disclose details about their private lives in their first post introducing themselves, but anyone from minority group does the same and well, read this thread, my right to self-identify is invalidated, my protected characteristics are just removed, my assertions about my personal life are all up for debate and being questioned and misrepresented, so where's the support, and why are these same people trolling support forum in the first place??

Huge turnouts at Pride events would indicate there is large and unrepresented LGBTQIA+ Community in the UK and I am part of that community and mostly the fight for equal rights and equality and cultural change continues, all allies are welcome too, it's always fun day out where nobody has bad intentions or seeks to harm their fellow human beings and love wins! 🙂

 

[Inka]

No need to apologise @maryjaneholland I was responding to the mention of DSDs by others not in any way to what you said relating yourself in your first post, which was related to trans issues in current affairs. It’s a very touchy subject for me (DSDs) because of the person close to me and their upset. I stand up for them because they get too upset to do it themselves.

Your description of your childhood is interesting, but I hope you’re ok about disclosing that and don’t feel you had to x

 

[maryjaneholland]

@Inka yes I fully understand, I have extended family members who struggle with drug and alcohol addiction and there's long road to teetotal sobriety, so sometimes I struggle when harsh judgmental language is used to dehumanise people living with addictions who want to be sober knowing that for many people it's lifelong battle and there are no quickfixes, but everyone deserves second chance to prove themselves as capable and as responsible parents or caregivers.

Humanity is so diverse that there may be people born with DSD or hormonal conditions who decide as adults to transition in some way as part of their valid journey, and that's why in case it wasn't made clear previously, the most respectful way to approach someone you don't know is simply to ask questions and not make assumptions as common courtesy, for example "Hi what's your name? Hello and what are your preferred pronouns? Great, love your outfit!"

I also wanted to highlight that the new generation of young trans and non-binary and queer people (these are already old-fashioned terms from an elder in the community!) don't seek to change biological sex and many would also not be content to reinforce gendered stereotypes to be rubberstamped with approval from NHS Gender Clinic or gain Gender Recognition Certificate, and instead some of their demands are the right to have gender neutral/fluid/non-binary classification legally recognised for example with "X" instead of "M" or "F" marker on state issued ID documents, the right to appropriate transition healthcare and treatment which doesn't emulate heteronormative standards of gender, legal right to marry and enjoy private family life - for example there's no legal recognition for two gender neutral or non-binary people to marry with their preferred gender markers shown on marriage certificate, or to alter birth certificate or death certficate to state their preferred gender marker for example "X", or any variations of this, for example someone with "M" gender marker marrying someone with "X" gender marker, the right to foster and adopt children or use surrogacy or access IVF via the NHS, these are just few examples where there are clear legal inequalities and there has been no progress since the Gender Recognition Act legislation was passed around twenty years ago... I imagine most people would feel aggrieved and discriminated against if they were simply told "NO" in all these areas of life by the state, alongside this endless scapegoating and misrepresentation in the gutter press...

 

[s'nic]

People are people .. take them as you find them. I have often found in life that it's darn stupid to 'judge a book' by it's cover.
In a few different job I've worked with gay people, bi-people and one young person in the process of arranging a transition from male to female (last I heard they had switched from dressing as a male at work, to using a female name and dressing as female). Such a change can't be easy/stress free for any person.

Slightly off topic but I also had contact with a group of lads ... ripped jeans, studded jackets, long hair ... my aunt would have been concerned enough to maybe cross the street judged on looks. But despite being boisterous, they had good hearts.

Another time near a group of goths, a highly refined voice ... it actually made me do a double take (unusual for me). And yup it came from a young woman dressed in full goth style. It was a real born with a silver spoon / lady of the manor voice lol.

A person should only ever be treated as who they are - themself

 

[maryjaneholland]

Karin Dreijer is contemporary singer/songwriter/producer performing under various aliases such as "The Knife" and "Fever Ray", they are gender fluid and prefer gender neutral pronouns, and their queer identity is expressed using pitch-shifting technology on their live vocals, and subverting heteronormative gender roles with "sleazy business man suit" persona and using stage make-up like horror film mask or drag king performance, they are also parent to two daughters and express European/Sweden perspective on queer collectives, touching upon some of the issues raised here in "Passengers" like climate anxiety post-apocalyptic vision of the future with glimpses of what subverted queer non-binary and female gaze could look like with some slight bad language and NSFW but Youtube Family Friendly Safe with no age restrictions... "Hen" is Swedish for they/them/theirs...

 

[maryjaneholland]

"This has nothing to do with diabetes, there's plenty of other places you can post about your gays prides willies and bottoms whatever I don't care and I don't want to know"... Ahem support forum...

And yet again, the Diabetes UK Support Forum moves this thread to "off the subject" allowing the naysayers to control my narrative about my life living with diabetes as queer trans non-binary person... Guess I will adopt some Malawian orphans like Madonna to assert my validity and credibility as responsible parent with kids free to post whatever whenever ha!

WE'RE HERE, WE'RE QUEER, GET USED TO IT, WE'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE!!! AND SOME OF US LIVE WITH DIABETES FYI!!!

https://m.youtube.com/@FeverRayMusic