The CarbScale

[CliffH]

That as you well know, is not a rule under user guidelines, but preferred terminology by DUK

"It's not even a code - more a set of guidelines"

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

The above seemed like somewhat of a rule. If not, then am I ok to keep using "reversal"

However, there is a rule about not posting content which you know would be deliberately annoying or cause upset to other members.

So if you know that some members here find the term ‘reversal’ annoying/misleading/upsetting, you should use ‘remission’ instead - even if you consider both terms equally acceptable. So as not to upset other members (User Guideline 2.3.3)

 

[harbottle]

We do have members and former members who have reduced their HbA1c into the non-diabetes range by weight loss and did not need medication, who appeared to have restored their pancreatic function and insulin production (as Taylor observed in his studies) and did not need to specially tailor their menu for blood glucose response provided they kept the weight off. One of whom would happily eat very high carb meals with no ill effects.

Few things are binary when it comes to diabetes IMO.

I’ve spent the weekend camping near Sidmouth and haven’t restricted carbs at all. Pizza, pasta, bread, beer and rice with every meal. The highest reading I’ve seen is 7.4 an hour after a meal. Evening pre tea readings are in in the high 4s and low 5s.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I’ve spent the weekend camping near Sidmouth and haven’t restricted carbs at all. Pizza, pasta, bread, beer and rice with every meal. The highest reading I’ve seen is 7.4 an hour after a meal. Evening pre tea readings are in in the high 4s and low 5s.

Fantastic stuff @harbottle

Not perhaps an ideal long-term strategy (especially if weight began to rise), but a great example of how a rebooted metabolism can cope with an occasional weekend of treats 🙂

 

[Eddy Edson]

I’ve spent the weekend camping near Sidmouth and haven’t restricted carbs at all. Pizza, pasta, bread, beer and rice with every meal. The highest reading I’ve seen is 7.4 an hour after a meal. Evening pre tea readings are in in the high 4s and low 5s.

I get about 45% of my energy from carbs these days, 220g+ per day. Fruit, veggies, melon, wholegrains etc. BG normal.

 

[beating_my_betes]

However, there is a rule about not posting content which you know would be deliberately annoying or cause upset to other members.

So if you know that some members here find the term ‘reversal’ annoying/misleading/upsetting, you should use ‘remission’ instead - even if you consider both terms equally acceptable. So as not to upset other members (User Guideline 2.3.3)

My journey thread has been up for months, with both remission and reversal in the title. Nobody has askd me to change the title, due to possible offense.

Not sure how this turned into "deliberately annoying', all of a sudden, because that's clearly not what this is about. As of yet, nobody has given a single good reason why reversal/cure isn't an achievable goal, nor any argument as to why it's distinct from remission and not just a synonym. So I'm not sure about the charge of "misleading".

 

[beating_my_betes]

Type 2s can never achieve a 'normal HbA1c'. They can drive the HbA1c down into the Normal Range. But that has to be achieved by special measures and careful attention to detail which means that reading is artificial and not 'normal'. Type 2s shouldn't be encouraged to believe that they can ever return to 'normal' as things stand.

I think this is a gross misunderstanding. And the argument that normality cannot be restored without taking special measures would depend on what you mean by "special". Perhps you could clarify.

 

[Burylancs]

Not sure how this turned into "deliberately annoying', all of a sudden, because that's clearly not what this is about. As of yet, nobody has given a single good reason why reversal/cure isn't an achievable goal,

Because the causes of Type 2 Diabetes are not known and therefore there can be no treatment for it let alone reversal or cure. We're fobbed off with the generalisations that it's 'genetic' and you've got to have the genes that predispose to the Metabolic Syndrome. All that's on offer for Type 2s is management of the symptoms to try reduce the risk of complications. As things stand we're stuck with it for life.

 

[beating_my_betes]

Because the causes of Type 2 Diabetes are not known and therefore there can be no treatment for it let alone reversal or cure. We're fobbed off with the generalisations that it's 'genetic' and you've got to have the genes that predispose to the Metabolic Syndrome. All that's on offer for Type 2s is management of the symptoms to try reduce the risk of complications. As things stand we're stuck with it for life.

It seems to be more widely accepted now that one of the more obvious causes is the storing of ectopic fat, leading to compromised insulin sensitivity, which leads to an inability to deal with carbohydrates effectively. Given the timing of the intervention, it has been shown that the above situation can indeed be reversed.

 

[beating_my_betes]

Absolutely agree. I do get sometimes quite irritated at this phrase as some people who are diabetic could feel it is their own fault it has not "reversed." It is not possible for everyone to do it.

It's likely not possible i will ever become a millionaire, but it doesn't upset me that others do/will/have. And not everyone on these forums will be able to achieve remission. Do we stop using that term also, to avoid upset?

No one is saying we should be allowed to purposefully try to offend others, but if we removed all words that might offend someone, this forum would likely not exist.

 

[Burylancs]

It seems to be more widely accepted now that one of the more obvious causes is the storing of ectopic fat, leading to compromised insulin sensitivity, which leads to an inability to deal with carbohydrates effectively. Given the timing of the intervention, it has been shown that the above situation can indeed be reversed.

And what causes the storing of ectopic fat ? You're no nearer the prime mover than ever.

 

[beating_my_betes]

And what causes the storing of ectopic fat ?

It's not entirely clear, and maybe due to more than one thing. This paper provides accessible discription of what might be happening:

Type 2 diabetes as a disease of ectopic fat? - BMC Medicine

Background Although obesity and diabetes commonly co-exist, the evidence base to support obesity as the major driver of type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM), and the mechanisms by which this occurs, are now better appreciated. Discussion This review briefly examines several sources of evidence -...

bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com