The CarbScale

[harbottle]

I had a blood test in March and HbA1C was 29. Haven’t had a review with the DN yet so still popping 1x 500g metformin a day when I remember. If you google Tim Spector metformin lots of articles appear but many behind a paywall eg The Times. It doesn’t cause me any noticeable side effects so, given the possible benefits, I’m not pushing to come off then.

Wow. That's an amazing reduction.
I carried on with my 500mg for a few years after it was halved, but eventually the surgery just stopped it and told me I didn't need it. They didn't want me to take a medication that I didn't need.

Most of the protective benefits with metformin have apparently been seen in people with existing conditions like T2D or those who are older. (Possibly as it helps reduce inflammation due to metabolic conditions.)

 

[harbottle]

Who ?

That Professor Spector guy.

 

[Eddy Edson]

Most of the protective benefits with metformin have apparently been seen in people with existing conditions like T2D or those who are older.

And mice.

 

[harbottle]

And mice.

I want to come back as a mouse (If reincarnated.)

Although I've seen what our cat did to them, so maybe not.

And I don't fancy being force fed Metformin.

 

[Burylancs]

And mice.

The Pan-dimensional beings who made the Earth as a Lab to answer the great questions about the meaning of Life and Everything ?

 

[Eddy Edson]

I want to come back as a mouse (If reincarnated.)

Although I've seen what our cat did to them, so maybe not.

And I don't fancy being force fed Metformin.

If you do come back as a mouse, apparently metformin will make you happier.

How a diabetes drug may reduce anxiety symptoms

New research in mice shows how metformin, a common drug used to treat diabetes and prediabetes, can also help reduce symptoms associated with anxiety.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Don't use either, go back to the age old terminology of Good Control. That was always good enough until the last few years

Well there you go - there’s another slightly divisive piece of terminology.

I cannot really Control my diabetes, I can simply manage it as best I can. There are factors that I can influence (carb:insulin ratio, dose timing, prebolus timing, reasonable carb counting / estimating skills), but there are many many other factors that influence my BG outcomes over which I have no… um… control. Ambient temperature, dose absorption, stress hormones, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns.

“Control” tells me that for Meal X all I have to do is take Dose Y at Timing Z, and my blood glucose outcome will be perfectly controlled, with reliably identical results each time. And if they aren’t properly controlled it is my fault. I am not adhering to the treatment plan I was given.

Alternatively managing my diabetes (not controlling my diabetes) seems to far better reflect the complex and nuanced interactions between the multifactorial mixing-pot of my T1 diabetes, environment, physiognomy, and metabolism.

 

[Docb]

Well there you go - there’s another slightly divisive piece of terminology.

I cannot really Control my diabetes, I can simply manage it as best I can. There are factors that I can influence (carb:insulin ratio, dose timing, prebolus timing, reasonable carb counting / estimating skills), but there are many many other factors that influence my BG outcomes over which I have no… um… control. Ambient temperature, dose absorption, stress hormones, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns.

“Control” tells me that for Meal X all I have to do is take Dose Y at Timing Z, and my blood glucose outcome will be perfectly controlled, with reliably identical results each time. And if they aren’t properly controlled it is my fault. I am not adhering to the treatment plan I was given.

Alternatively managing my diabetes (not controlling my diabetes) seems to far better reflect the complex and nuanced interactions between the multifactorial mixing-pot of my T1 diabetes, environment, physiognomy, and metabolism.

Alternatively, good control could be seen to be a good phrase because it refers only to the outcome and as such is independent of how the outcome was achieved.

Anyway, as a T1 you are never going to be free of medication so you are never going to achieve reversal or remission or well controlled or well managed or whatever you want to call the situation where you have returned to a normal hbA1c without use of medication.

Now, how many angels do you reckon could dance on the head of a pin.....

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Now, how many angels do you reckon could dance on the head of a pin.....

 

[Maz2]

The misinformation is in the title ..'Reverse your Diabetes'. Unscrupulously leeching on the denial and delusion of desperate newbies. In the present state of knowledge a secure diagnosis of T2 cannot be 'reversed', only managed for a lifetime.

Absolutely agree. I do get sometimes quite irritated at this phrase as some people who are diabetic could feel it is their own fault it has not "reversed." It is not possible for everyone to do it. I recall my late Father -in-Law's next door neighbour was diabetic and she had got hers under control. Her GP told her it is not "reversed" just kept under control.

 

[Burylancs]

Alternatively, good control could be seen to be a good phrase because it refers only to the outcome and as such is independent of how the outcome was achieved.

Anyway, as a T1 you are never going to be free of medication ..

Exogenous Insulin is not medication ; it's Hormone Replacement Therapy.

 

[Burylancs]

Anyway, as a T1 you are never going to be free of medication so you are never going to achieve reversal or remission or well controlled or well managed or whatever you want to call the situation where you have returned to a normal hbA1c without use of medication

Type 2s can never achieve a 'normal HbA1c'. They can drive the HbA1c down into the Normal Range. But that has to be achieved by special measures and careful attention to detail which means that reading is artificial and not 'normal'. Type 2s shouldn't be encouraged to believe that they can ever return to 'normal' as things stand.

 

[Docb]

Type 2s can never achieve a 'normal HbA1c'. They can drive the HbA1c down into the Normal Range. But that has to be achieved by special measures and careful attention to detail which means that reading is artificial and not 'normal'. Type 2s shouldn't be encouraged to believe that they can ever return to 'normal' as things stand.

Exogenous Insulin is not medication ; it's Hormone Replacement Therapy.

Come on @Burylancs, I'm a bit of a pedant myself when it comes to terminology but those comments are pushing it!

 

[pjgtech]

Your

If you look at the lifestyles of the handful of members on here who claim to be 'in remission' from Type 2 you will see that they are actually slaves to the condition and building their whole diets and regimes around managing it. Living with Type 2 Diabetes is unremitting and for life as things stand.

I have had success with the NHS T2D Pathway to Remission programme.
Although I am technically in remission, as far as I'm concerned, I am still living with diabetes, and it could rear its ugly head at any time again in the future. I have not changed my "relationship with diabetes" status on this forum to remission, its still says T2.
Personally I do not feel like I am a "slave" to the condition. I have changed my diet, but thats all, as I have couple of minor other health issues that prevent me from doing any strenuous exercise, so the weight loss has been almost all due to a low carb diet. My diet previously was pretty poor, so changing it has lead to me being generally healthier.
For me it is a new way of life, but I'm fine with that.
Your comment that we are "slaves" to it, seems (to me) to indicate that its forced upon us with some negative connotations.
But I have found the exact opposite, it was a very positive step that I took to take part in the programme and it is a very positive thing that I now continue with my new way of eating and it is most certainly a positive thing that I have a much healthier way of life.
Its a bit like saying we are being "slaves" to not getting knocked down by a Bus..... constantly having to check both ways when crossing the road, that Bus could come along at any moment, gotta stay vigilant, or we could just be acting in a sensible way for self preservation, not really being slaves to a regime?
For me, this is my new normal.

 

[pjgtech]

Type 2s can never achieve a 'normal HbA1c'. They can drive the HbA1c down into the Normal Range. But that has to be achieved by special measures and careful attention to detail which means that reading is artificial and not 'normal'. Type 2s shouldn't be encouraged to believe that they can ever return to 'normal' as things stand.

Sorry, but thats just twaddle IMHO.
If you are in the "normal" HbA1c range, then you are in the "normal" HbA1c range, fact, whether you are diabetic or otherwise.
Special measures and careful attention to details? Well I eat a low carb diet, but thats it, hardly very taxing is it?
As far as I'm concerned I'm just as "normal" as anyone else and I wholeheartedly support people being given positive encourage to try to make their lives better/healthier. Telling aT2 that they can never be "normal" is not helpful IMHO.
Just my 2c worth, but hey, what do I know.....

 

[Eddy Edson]

Type 2s can never achieve a 'normal HbA1c'. They can drive the HbA1c down into the Normal Range. But that has to be achieved by special measures and careful attention to detail which means that reading is artificial and not 'normal'. Type 2s shouldn't be encouraged to believe that they can ever return to 'normal' as things stand.

What a load of twang.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Please can I remind members:

• To contribute to a positive atmosphere on the forum
• To offer encouragement and support, especially for those newly diagnosed
• To express any differences of opinion in a supportive and respectful way
• Not to deliberately post provocative statements

 

[Alan44]

Being diagnosed diabetic with an HBA1c of 51 was the best thing that could have happened to me, as it told me that my lifestyle was, shall we say, not all it could be.
It made me own up to the fact I was overweight and did little exercise, although my diet wasn't that bad it could be better.

I took control of the controlables (weight, diet and exercise) and reduced my HBA1c to 46. (not perfect, but no diabetic)

I am healthier now than I have been for about 20 years, my BMI is now 22 down from 25, my BP has come down and my doc has reduced my BP meds, my lung function has improved no end.

I am 72 so will never be the same as I was when I was 22, but that's life, but I feel a damn site better than I did when I was 62.
@Burylancs (mod hat off) don't ever call me a slave, directly or indirectly, only my wife will get away with that one

Alan 😉

 

[Burylancs]

Type 2s can never achieve a 'normal HbA1c'. They can drive the HbA1c down into the Normal Range. But that has to be achieved by special which means that reading is artificial and not 'normal' measures and careful attention to detail

Come on @Burylancs, I'm a bit of a pedant myself when it comes to terminology but those comments are pushing it!

Heh heh, got to remember pedants are right by definition - that's what makes them so annoying.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

We do have members and former members who have reduced their HbA1c into the non-diabetes range by weight loss and did not need medication, who appeared to have restored their pancreatic function and insulin production (as Taylor observed in his studies) and did not need to specially tailor their menu for blood glucose response provided they kept the weight off. One of whom would happily eat very high carb meals with no ill effects.

Few things are binary when it comes to diabetes IMO.