sugar or not?

[mikep1979]

northerner are you sure the 5 are to bring bg levels up hahaha

 

[diagonall]

DLA......... adults can have if they have complications.
It's not the condition you have but how it effects you. Children have DLA due to the extra care involved compared to a none diabetic child. DLA stops at 16 I think. I did here that you have to reapply at the age of 14 though.

Extra cost! there should be a reduction in food costs. A sensible diet is called cut out the junk.
Amount of carbs eaten is a personal thing but the obvious is
the more you eat the harder it is to control blood sugar numbers.
So moderation is the key word.
Also the type of carb eaten has a big impact on blood sugars too.

Eating snacks
There is no need to eat snacks if on a basal/bolus system.(MDI)
Basal is that and only that you have enough to keep blood sugars at a normal level. Without the need to snack ie feeding the insulin.
Bolus is for eating and correcting. So if you must snack between meals you must bolus.
These 10gm snacks some of you are eating between meals require insulin or you blood sugar will go up by at least 3 points.

If you are having to snack because of low blood sugars durring the day then you need to look at your basal requirements and if going low 2 hrs after eating a meal then your carb ratio needs looking at.

http://www.glycemicindex.com/ Have a look at the Glycemic Index hopefully this will help some of you.

 

[mikep1979]

i do like to snack sue but not due to any problems in my insulin regime, but due to the fact i have a very high metabolism and also that i always have been a big eater. some people need more than others and i must be one of them. i have a mid morning snack, a mid afternoon snack and i always have supper, this is on top of my usual 3 meals a day.

 

[diagonall]

i do like to snack sue but not due to any problems in my insulin regime, but due to the fact i have a very high metabolism and also that i always have been a big eater. some people need more than others and i must be one of them. i have a mid morning snack, a mid afternoon snack and i always have supper, this is on top of my usual 3 meals a day.

That's fine Mike but you still need to cover with insulin unless you have a low blood sugar.
I was just trying to point out that people do need to bolus for all these snacks they are eating.

 

[mikep1979]

i do always factor in extra insulin if the snack is going over a certain amount of carbs or has a high sugar level (not that i have much sugary stuff now).

 

[sofaraway]

That's fine Mike but you still need to cover with insulin unless you have a low blood sugar.
I was just trying to point out that people do need to bolus for all these snacks they are eating.

Agreed, and then it's important to take into account insulin remaining when you go to bolus for your main meals.

 

[mikep1979]

i find insulin is only needed if over a certain amount of carbs or if you have a high bg before the snack. but i guess as with everything to do with diabetes it is all trial and error for everyone lol

 

[sofaraway]

i find insulin is only needed if over a certain amount of carbs or if you have a high bg before the snack. but i guess as with everything to do with diabetes it is all trial and error for everyone lol

For you how many carbs would you need to eat in a snack to need to bolus for it?
I have quite a high (or is it low?) ratio so snacks can sometimes be tricky to know if to give insulin or not.

if you don't have the snacks what happens to your blood sugar?

 

[mikep1979]

i dont need anything if carbs are below 10mg. i dont have any reaction if i dont have snack besides just being really hungry till lunch, unless i havent had a big enough breakfast lol

 

[diagonall]

i find insulin is only needed if over a certain amount of carbs or if you have a high bg before the snack. but i guess as with everything to do with diabetes it is all trial and error for everyone lol

Mike this might be why you are having so many problems controling your diabetes. Having read a lot of your posts the one thing that comes over loud and clear is that you are not in control of your diabetes.
You have spoken about having a pump, but this will not help you unless you understand how to use insulin correctly ie carb counting and bolusing correctly.
Please note I am not having a go at you all I and many others are trying to do is help you.

 

[mikep1979]

i do understand my diabetes sue and the thing with my control is that even if i increase my insulin when im high it wont bring my levels down as quick as it should. also when my levels are stable my snacks are fine and dont need to be covered by any more insulin. i have spoken to my dn about this as i was worried over that it could be causing my fluctuations and she has told me it is nothing to do with it or my administering/not understanding insulin at all. it is due to changes that have occurred in my body and we have yet to understand what they are. i understand you are trying to help me and i do appretiate the help. the pump i have been told will give me more control and i will listen to what they say over it as i do think it would be better for me to.

 

[Patricia]

Surely diabetes doesn't remove the need for snacks from hunger in some people?! The gap between my son's breakfast and his scheduled lunch at school is 7 hours, and between his dinner and bed is often 4 hours: the 7 hours is impossible, and the 4 hours difficult for him to go without snacks. (Indeed, we are finding him having regular hypos at 11 am, which is his break at school and nearly four hours after breakfast: we have tried cutting back the morning dose, and while 2-3 units under gets him through, we suspect the result is that the insulin fails to cover breakfast, which is not good. We are now trying to get him to get a snack in earlier in the morning to keep his sugars a little more stable.) This hunger is an essential part of him and his metabolism, and always always has been. My daughter is completely different, and will often go for hours without feeling hungry. Even before diagnosis my son always always suffered from very clear low blood sugar drops (not hypos, of course, but similar: shakiness, irritability, lack of focus), as has his father.

It is vital that he have snacks, and we have been told that anything under 14g is okay without another injection. Is this simply not the case?! The whole point is to avoid him injecting a billion times a day. I realise he can have sausages and cheese and stuff, and he does -- but again, like this thread started, it is also important that he be able to have some things that others have within reason. And again like the thread is going, lots of meat especially *is* expensive -- particularly when you have a child who can literally eat 7 sausages at one sitting. And he's skinny, remember -- this is simply his appetite.

We *have* discovered that a small snack will raise his bgl a little, usually about 2-3mmol. Fortunately, he is usually not hungry for a snack when he is running high, though if this does happen we urge him toward very low carb stuff. He is usually hungry for a snack over 2 hours after a meal, so I don't think we are feeding the insulin -- we're feeding the hunger!

 

[diagonall]

Surely diabetes doesn't remove the need for snacks from hunger in some people?! The gap between my son's breakfast and his scheduled lunch at school is 7 hours, and between his dinner and bed is often 4 hours: the 7 hours is impossible, and the 4 hours difficult for him to go without snacks. (Indeed, we are finding him having regular hypos at 11 am, which is his break at school and nearly four hours after breakfast: we have tried cutting back the morning dose, and while 2-3 units under gets him through, we suspect the result is that the insulin fails to cover breakfast, which is not good. We are now trying to get him to get a snack in earlier in the morning to keep his sugars a little more stable.) This hunger is an essential part of him and his metabolism, and always always has been. My daughter is completely different, and will often go for hours without feeling hungry. Even before diagnosis my son always always suffered from very clear low blood sugar drops (not hypos, of course, but similar: shakiness, irritability, lack of focus), as has his father.

It is vital that he have snacks, and we have been told that anything under 14g is okay without another injection. Is this simply not the case?! The whole point is to avoid him injecting a billion times a day. I realise he can have sausages and cheese and stuff, and he does -- but again, like this thread started, it is also important that he be able to have some things that others have within reason. And again like the thread is going, lots of meat especially *is* expensive -- particularly when you have a child who can literally eat 7 sausages at one sitting. And he's skinny, remember -- this is simply his appetite.

We *have* discovered that a small snack will raise his bgl a little, usually about 2-3mmol. Fortunately, he is usually not hungry for a snack when he is running high, though if this does happen we urge him toward very low carb stuff. He is usually hungry for a snack over 2 hours after a meal, so I don't think we are feeding the insulin -- we're feeding the hunger!

Patricia, you misunderstand me. What I am saying is people do not have to snack, some people think they have too so do it out of habit even if theres no need.
Your son can snack but he has to cover carbs with insulin. Anything over 5 carbs and he needs to inject for it. He does not produce insulin so he has to inject. 1 digestive biscuit will rise blood sugar by 2 points at least.
Sausages!!! Can you tell me where this idea of eating sausages came from as a snack? They contain carbs and a lot of fat. He needs insulin to cover them.

 

[aymes]

It is vital that he have snacks, and we have been told that anything under 14g is okay without another injection. Is this simply not the case?! The whole point is to avoid him injecting a billion times a day. I realise he can have sausages and cheese and stuff, and he does -- but again, like this thread started, it is also important that he be able to have some things that others have within reason. And again like the thread is going, lots of meat especially *is* expensive -- particularly when you have a child who can literally eat 7 sausages at one sitting. And he's skinny, remember -- this is simply his appetite.

Everyone will have a different opinions but that sounds ok to my. I don't inject for snacks of 10 g carbs or under. 10g will raise me by about 3 so I correct for that at the next meal. This approach was advise to me during dafne.

 

[Northerner]

It is vital that he have snacks, and we have been told that anything under 14g is okay without another injection. Is this simply not the case?! The whole point is to avoid him injecting a billion times a day. I realise he can have sausages and cheese and stuff, and he does -- but again, like this thread started, it is also important that he be able to have some things that others have within reason. And again like the thread is going, lots of meat especially *is* expensive -- particularly when you have a child who can literally eat 7 sausages at one sitting. And he's skinny, remember -- this is simply his appetite.

I totally understand where you are coming from Patricia. As a boy, and throughout my life, I've had to have a regular input of food. At school, dinners were served in trays for 8 boys - me and a friend could easily finish off a trayful between us, and we'd prefer the 'second sitting' because then they would be giving out the food that was left over for the day. On top of this I would have a large amount at break times. When I was 25 I weighed 8st 4, now I weigh 9st 8 at age 50. I'm 5' 9" so that gives me a BMI of about 19.5 - very healthy. Some people simply need lots of food and are fortunate not to put on weight.

How active is he? One thing to bear in mind is the effect that activity can have. He may have 'used up' his breakfast bolus, but he still has his basal insulin which, if he has been active, will be very efficiently squirreling away glucose into his cells and liver - and the effects of exercise can last for hours afterwards. I've personally found that I can eat small snacks throughout the day without having an adverse effect on my BG. I don't give doses of bolus insulin to cover every snack, what I do do is add in a correction at my next meal if neccesary (although I hardly ever have to).

I must be doing ok because my HBA1c was 5.4 a week ago, down from 11.8 at diagnosis and 6.7 six months ago. Yes, I have had lows, but not that many below 3.5. I can live with 3.5's because I'm aiming for tight control at the bottom end of my desired range.

It's a tricky thing and clearly there are wide variations amongst people, hence the difficulties often related here when people feel they are trying their hardest. You need to take in all the possible scenarios and slowly, but surely, find out how best to make it work for you - or your son, in your case!

I wish you the best of luck!🙂

 

[mikep1979]

i think you may be missin the point sue as i dont need to inject for snacks of less than 10g carbs. i dont snack due to sugar levels and i dont have highs due to snacks unless i miss calculate carbs or sugar content. i also do correction doses on my next injection to. i find this is best for me and has worked for a few years now. diabetes is different for everyone and it is all trial and error to. i also like to have sausages and i know a few guys in my clinic use them as snacks and they have superb control and also have a Hb of less than 6%. if control is good why not have it.

 

[wendyh]

I know this will seem like an odd question - but- should i allow my son sugary things like cakes etc? I want to restrict it to about 1 item per week - but his consultant has told us that there is no reason why he cant eat what he wants as long as he has enough insulin.
Surely sugar is 'bad' for his body as a diabetic? Sorry if i offend anybody, but i just cant seem to work out whether to let him have treats as often as he wants or whether to stick to my guns and ignore the consultant. I think the consultant was trying to reassure him that he doesnt need to feel any different from any other 10 year old boy! I agree he shouldnt, but surely there are reasons for not giving him sugary things? When i say no he just says that his consultant says its ok - so i feel as if i am being mean! Bev

Hi Bev
I know what you mean - I was the same with my daughter initially. She still has treats but.....the way I have got round it for her is....I buy a pack of white chocolate mice or a freddo frog and after dinner she can have a white mouse maybe 2 or freddos head/toes/tum. She loves to choose - I must say we have been very lucky with her as she is not really that bothered by not having sweets - she seems to have lost her sweet tooth to a degree which is no bad thing really. I usually go with the rule that she can have something nice after dinner and she has accepted it. Long may that continue! Fortunately her best friends mum is a dentist and she does not get too many snacks either!

 

[Patricia]

Thank you everyone for your replies and thoughts. I think I'm getting this now -- and that is,people's bodies work differently, hurray! It's all about seeing what works best. I guess I also think that somewhere around the edges is the delicate balance too of what *feels* best, in all sorts of ways. We too are aiming for tight control, and frankly, aren't there yet. We have days when it all looks good, and days of real despair.

E is keen to push for tight control. He knows what that means. You ask about his activity, Northerner -- well, he's not overly active, not a sporty guy. But he does have a big ol' brain. Normal physical activity, PE and Games, but quick quick in other ways and very musical etc. His father is the same. They both seem to burn calories like mad. His father literally has five whole meals a day, and snacks in between. But my son's drive and understanding of this will I hope mean that gradually he will get right on top of it.

Tough as it is for him.

We will get there. From the responses here it seems worth trying to keep snacks on the very low carb side in any case, particularly as control is not as easy yet, so correction (like so much else!) not entirely reliable. AND absolutely we want to avoid spikes which we aren't even measuring, etc...So gradually we will be sure to keep moving to the long-burning stuff (although, hey, porridge doesn't seem to make a damn bit of difference to him! what a shame...)which of course is also the healthiest in so many ways.

We learn. And I'm heartened by so many who achieve such good control in good spirits. Wonderful.

Type1_Sue, sorry to misunderstand. I see what you mean generally now. However, it's fair to say that lots of fatty foods have very little real carb (cream, greek yoghurt, meats). They may not be the absolute best in the world for you to have all the time -- in fact, clearly aren't -- but at certain stages of life they can serve a purpose and don't seem to require insulin. Both of my fast metabolism men/boys have cholesterol on the high end of normal -- except that they both also have extra high amounts of the 'good' cholesterol to balance it.

As I say, we will get there. And I thank you all so much for your views and advice. Truly.

 

[bev]

Well i have learnt so much from this thread i am so glad i posted it!
Maybe for children who are still in the honeymoon period the 'rules' may differ?
I have been told many times already that a 14gram snack does not need any insulin, so its very interesting that a few have been told different?
This is where the confusion comes in for us mums and newly diagnosed - it seems to depend on your particular consultant doesnt it?
We were told sausages were ok unless they were the cheap ones that are full of rusk etc.
I think its important also to remember that whether your diabetic or not, the amount of foods people require varies immensely and young growing children do need the extra calories and its so hard at times to always try to keep everything healthy, as often children just want to feel the same as others.
And if a child is hungry - its hungry! Alex also showed signs of shakiness etc if he hadnt eaten for more than 4 hours pre -diagnosis ,so i think he is just a person who needs more food - he isnt fat, in fact he is probably underweight.
This is why we need forums like this as people with years of experience through trial and error can pass on their advice to us 'newbies'! So thanks to you all its been a real eye opener and given me lots to ask his consultant in 2 weeks - wont she be happy! Bev

 

[Northerner]

... You ask about his activity, Northerner -- well, he's not overly active, not a sporty guy. But he does have a big ol' brain. Normal physical activity, PE and Games, but quick quick in other ways and very musical etc...

Never let it be forgotten that the brain uses glucose as its power source - and that a hard working brain uses more than a lazy one! It's not only muscles that need feeding!🙂