Strategies after weight loss

[Deleted member 21371]

Moderator Note: Side conversation split from https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/t2-newbie-hoping-to-reverse-it.103812/#post-1223497

Whatever way you choose to get to grips with the weight loss and reduction in blood glucose has to be enjoyable otherwise it is not sustainable and should be regarded as a new way of eating not A DIET.
There are plenty of foods you can eat and it is not all sack cloth and ashes. Meals based on meat, fish, eggs, cheese, dairy, vegetables and salads with only small portions of high carb foods still gives you options for tasty meals.
This link may give you some ideas for modifying your diet, it is a low carb approach based on real foods. https://lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk/

It definitely is a DIET

8 weeks DIET, then back to a normal way of eating, everything including carbs in the mix.
Not a low carb diet control for life.
Why should life be diet controlled if it doesn't need to be?

Why do all low calorie threads get bombed by "go low carb"?
Accept we have different ways to treat diabetes, you want a DIET for life, others bite the bullet, accept there may be very short term pain, and choose that path for a very long term gain?
Why should we need to be committed to a life time diet because it's easier for a few weeks initially?

Bite the bullet, reverse diabetes, move on in life, don't be stuck in a "low carb for life diet" unless you really want to choose that option

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Not everyone can reverse it through it through weight loss, even if overweight/obese to begin with ('Non responders', according to to Taylor's book) - it also seems that the length of time you'd been T2 can affect whether or not the pancreas can start to work again... and in some folk it just doesn't.

I didn't use the Newcastle diet, but used the Caldesi books (And lost weight very quickly with a meal plan) but they're pretty much identical with their advice - avoid starchy vegetables and junk food. By the time I go round to looking up the Newcastle diet I'd already lost a lot of weight and didn't see much difference in the advice. (I did get some shakes as they were handy for when I didn't have time to make some lunch.)

Whether it's reversed (I have no idea if I can eat, say, a cheeseburger without getting hyperglycaemic) or under control by diet I don't care - as long as I don't go back to feeling as bad I felt over a year ago!

It would be an interesting experiment.
I lost a lot of weight on a low fat diet over a year, probably enough to say I had done it.
But, I hadn't completely reversed my diabetes, then the Newcastle diet hit the news, so rather than stop, I had nothing to lose trying it, so I did, and it seemed to do the trick.
If I had thought "I'm thin, no point" I still be diabetic and diet controlled.

 

[harbottle]

I might pluck up the guts to have a cheeseburger one day. 🙂

 

[Deleted member 21371]

I might pluck up the guts to have a cheeseburger one day. 🙂

Thinking about it, (it was a while ago), I must have been thin when I started, as I looked gaunt and "ill" when I finished the Newcastle Diet.
There is definitely some slack in it, maybe the internal fat in me was the last to leave in my personal fat threshold.
I know that because I have put enough back on to look like I'm no longer "ill", and still under my threshold, so it's not the first back on fortunately.

 

[harbottle]

Any evidence for that statement?

Did you miss the 'possibly' and the question mark at the end of @travellor's statement? It was a question, not a statement of fact.

I found this:

Low-carb Improves Pancreatic Function and Type 2 Diabetes – Diet Doctor

A new study shows that independent of weight loss, a low-carb diet improves glucose control and even pancreas function in those with type 2 diabetes.

www.dietdoctor.com

It seems that low-carb has been seen to improve pancreatic function in T2 diabetics. This study did not include weight loss, though.

This study concludes that independent of weight loss, a 30% carb 30% protein diet:

1. improves glucose control
2. improves insulin sensitivity
3. improves pancreatic beta-cell function
4. improves satiety
5. decreases liver and pancreas fat

 

[Drummer]

I always had an intolerance of carbs, like the rest of my mother's family, so I have not 'gone back' to being able to cope with a 'normal' diet, as I could never eat the amount of carbs considered normal without feeling unwell and putting on weight at a great rate.

 

[harbottle]

Thinking about it, (it was a while ago), I must have been thin when I started, as I looked gaunt and "ill" when I finished the Newcastle Diet.
There is definitely some slack in it, maybe the internal fat in me was the last to leave in my personal fat threshold.
I know that because I have put enough back on to look like I'm no longer "ill", and still under my threshold, so it's not the first back on fortunately.

I did get people tell me earlier this year I was looking a bit gaunt and looked ill! I think I put on a little bit more weight since then, although just recently I was told I was 'all skin and bones!'

 

[bulkbiker]

Did you miss the 'possibly' and the question mark at the end of @travellor's statement? It was a question, not a statement of fact.

I found this:

Low-carb Improves Pancreatic Function and Type 2 Diabetes – Diet Doctor

A new study shows that independent of weight loss, a low-carb diet improves glucose control and even pancreas function in those with type 2 diabetes.

www.dietdoctor.com

It seems that low-carb has been seen to improve pancreatic function in T2 diabetics. This study did not include weight loss, though.

Thanks for providing some evidence that the question/statement was "possibly" incorrect.
Much appreciated.
Even more so that it shows that weight loss is not a requirement for improving pancreatic function (although I'd guess its insulin sensitivity that is being restored) in those with T2 through low carbing.

 

[Drummer]

Thanks for providing some evidence that the question/statement was "possibly" incorrect.
Much appreciated.
Even more so that it shows that weight loss is not a requirement for improving pancreatic function (although I'd guess its insulin sensitivity that is being restored) in those with T2 through low carbing.

Now that I am 5 years from diagnosis I have noticed how my body shape has altered since removing the carbs from my diet.
With no tests other than Hba1c done it is impossible to draw conclusions about what has altered internally, but it look, to me at least, is that reversing high glucose levels results in positive outcomes which include weightloss and restoration of a waistline more like ) ( than ( ) though I have been asked about strategies for losing weight far more than controlling glucose in the blood. It seems firmly entrenched in the minds of many that weight loss is the key even when it has not even been thought about.

 

[harbottle]

Thanks for providing some evidence that the question/statement was "possibly" incorrect.
Much appreciated.
Even more so that it shows that weight loss is not a requirement for improving pancreatic function (although I'd guess its insulin sensitivity that is being restored) in those with T2 through low carbing.

They state that is improved beta cell functionality:

What makes this study stand out is that the results also showed improved pancreatic beta-cell sensitivity and function. This is where it gets a little complicated.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I agree.
If a poster has worked out the best route and asks specifically about a treatment with a medical record proven to reverse diabetes, as an option, it seems fair to respect that, and give advice on how to try that first, rather than bypass it entirely, and move straight into a low carb maintenance diet?
As you say, once you have taken the low carb route, it does appear to have a different effect, it does reduce weight, but doesn't seem to "restart" the pancreas in the same way possibly?

You are right in that you do have to find a way that works for you as an individual. And that might be a question of trying more than one approach until you find one that works for you. And you clearly enjoy the fact that you don’t need to limit carbs any more as an ongoing management strategy!

But I think the OP’s question is a good one. You describe your experience as ‘breaking the link’ with food, and then essentially being able to start-over. So while you don’t specifically limit carbs any more, you‘ve not gone back to your previous way of eating either?

So I wonder if it‘s a different ‘long term maintenance‘ way of eating. Not carb-focussed, but also eating in a way that maintains your lighter weight.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

You are right in that you do have to find a way that works for you as an individual. And that might be a question of trying more than one approach until you find one that works for you. And you clearly enjoy the fact that you don’t need to limit carbs any more as an ongoing management strategy!

But I think the OP’s question is a good one. You describe your experience as ‘breaking the link’ with food, and then essentially being able to start-over. So while you don’t specifically limit carbs any more, you‘ve not gone back to your previous way of eating either?

So I wonder if it‘s a different ‘long term maintenance‘ way of eating. Not carb-focussed, but also eating in a way that maintains your lighter weight.

Very true.
As my dietitian told me, "A family sized quiche is not a 'snack' "
And neither a six pack of apple donuts.
Or a family sized pack of sausage rolls from Greggs

However, it's still a post in which the op has already decided the path they are taking, so I believe any deviation should be a new thread, rather than derail someone asking for specific help, on a specific path they have already decided on?

There have been a few "bombs" recently, perhaps stripping them out of existing threads, and letting them take there course on a new thread would keep the forum more on track with varying opinions?

Oh, its probably sort of relevant to op, but I got (very) fat because I put things in my mouth, it wasn't a food group (well technically I could blame the donuts) but they were inanimate, but at the end of the day I did it.
My way of eating now just mostly involves scales and a mirror, and not gasping if I run for a bus. (or think about when the next bus will arrive.....)

However, I still would request all this is stripped out into a side shoot thread, and not derailing posts anymore?

 

[AndBreathe]

You are right in that you do have to find a way that works for you as an individual. And that might be a question of trying more than one approach until you find one that works for you. And you clearly enjoy the fact that you don’t need to limit carbs any more as an ongoing management strategy!

But I think the OP’s question is a good one. You describe your experience as ‘breaking the link’ with food, and then essentially being able to start-over. So while you don’t specifically limit carbs any more, you‘ve not gone back to your previous way of eating either?

So I wonder if it‘s a different ‘long term maintenance‘ way of eating. Not carb-focussed, but also eating in a way that maintains your lighter weight.

Whilst these spin-off threads are all very well for those at the heart of the bickering, those of us who were not just read a thread started half-way through a story and are effectively excluded from it. I don't think that is what this forum is supposed to be about.

Perhaps a link to the original thread might be helpful to those trying to work out what's going on.

This is the second such thread this evening. I can only assume someone's had a bright idea along the way.

Sorry to be off topic, but no point doing a spin off to a spin off to illustrate a point.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Perhaps a link to the original thread might be helpful to those trying to work out what's going on.

Yes I usually do that, sorry!

I’ll add it now.

Travellor’s other thread just quoted a post in the same thread, but I’ll add a backlink for that too.