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T2 Newbie - hoping to reverse it

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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
Wish that worked for me. My experience is that having got my blood glucose under control by carb control, I need to keep that up otherwise my blood glucose will be back where it was in no time at all.

If there is a difference between us @travellor I guess it would be that I was never particularly overweight. The, "crash diet to get your weight down and then eat what you like provided you maintain your lower weight", route was not an option for me. As is said many times on the forum it is wise listen to all the experiences and then work out what will be best for you.

I agree.
If a poster has worked out the best route and asks specifically about a treatment with a medical record proven to reverse diabetes, as an option, it seems fair to respect that, and give advice on how to try that first, rather than bypass it entirely, and move straight into a low carb maintenance diet?
As you say, once you have taken the low carb route, it does appear to have a different effect, it does reduce weight, but doesn't seem to "restart" the pancreas in the same way possibly?
 
As you say, once you have taken the low carb route, it does appear to have a different effect, it does reduce weight, but doesn't seem to "restart" the pancreas in the same way possibly?
I wonder this too...

I went the Low Cal / Weight Loss route myself, I've never counted Carbs, although I'm mindful of what I eat - I know for sure my body is doing now what it's supposed to now...

I always thought as I'm 'In Remission' I shouldn't need to be too concerned about Carbs and for me, it's more about not eating Ultra Processed foods, so the less processed a food is the better, and it's all about balance rather than a specific food type...

@WalkdontRun whichever route you choose, enjoy your journey and remember 'what works for you' 😉
 
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Not everyone can reverse it through it through weight loss, even if overweight/obese to begin with ('Non responders', according to to Taylor's book) - it also seems that the length of time you'd been T2 can affect whether or not the pancreas can start to work again... and in some folk it just doesn't.

I didn't use the Newcastle diet, but used the Caldesi books (And lost weight very quickly with a meal plan) but they're pretty much identical with their advice - avoid starchy vegetables and junk food. By the time I go round to looking up the Newcastle diet I'd already lost a lot of weight and didn't see much difference in the advice. (I did get some shakes as they were handy for when I didn't have time to make some lunch.)

Whether it's reversed (I have no idea if I can eat, say, a cheeseburger without getting hyperglycaemic) or under control by diet I don't care - as long as I don't go back to feeling as bad I felt over a year ago!
 
@WalkdontRun

In a roundabout way, I think the answer to your question, for me, was I lost as much weight as I needed to. (Or it was something specific to the very low calorie method)
But it was back at the start of the whole reversal discovery, so there were no rules really.
 
Many thanks for all the advise so far. Hopefully the 12KG or so will be possible in 2mths. How did users get past the same food every day (shakes) etc. Was 800cal per day what most aimed at? Any other tips from dieticians? I'm back eating more mixed nuts (unsalted). Are nuts bad? Just read Roy Taylors book and it was nice to know that just the stuff you got in the supermarket worked just as well. Were users aiming at a weight loss percentage or just a number. In attaining remission (if they did), did they notice any benefits beyond ending medication (and fitting into more clothes). Increased energy seems to be possible (or was that also due to more exercise). How long did users remain on the medication after hitting their weight loss target and the hba1c tests showing them in the "safe" zone. What side effects did users see when in the "crash" diet. Are diabetecs insulin production permanently damaged even when back in "remission". Did users see a continual weight loss or was it slow to start/fast at the end etc. Did the fat come off their waist or did other areas start first (legs/arms/hips etc). Does anyone practise fasting as a way of recovering (or future offsetting) from a "normal" meal (wedding/restaurant etc). Not a big fan of recipie books as usually I am missing 80% of the ingredients. Is this the end of home made bread/wholemeal pasta/cheese on toast/milkshakes/Beer (the good stuff)?
 
Many thanks for all the advise so far. Hopefully the 12KG or so will be possible in 2mths. How did users get past the same food every day (shakes) etc. Was 800cal per day what most aimed at? Any other tips from dieticians? I'm back eating more mixed nuts (unsalted). Are nuts bad? Just read Roy Taylors book and it was nice to know that just the stuff you got in the supermarket worked just as well. Were users aiming at a weight loss percentage or just a number. In attaining remission (if they did), did they notice any benefits beyond ending medication (and fitting into more clothes). Increased energy seems to be possible (or was that also due to more exercise). How long did users remain on the medication after hitting their weight loss target and the hba1c tests showing them in the "safe" zone. What side effects did users see when in the "crash" diet. Are diabetecs insulin production permanently damaged even when back in "remission". Did users see a continual weight loss or was it slow to start/fast at the end etc. Did the fat come off their waist or did other areas start first (legs/arms/hips etc). Does anyone practise fasting as a way of recovering (or future offsetting) from a "normal" meal (wedding/restaurant etc). Not a big fan of recipie books as usually I am missing 80% of the ingredients. Is this the end of home made bread/wholemeal pasta/cheese on toast/milkshakes/Beer (the good stuff)?
For me it 800 Cals (4 200 Cal shakes a day) and plenty of water 2.5 litres per day...

I took to it like a duck to water, it was simple but I had to work out when to take each shake and spread it throughout the day

Exercise was not on the agenda

Nuts (unsalted,unroasted) are good but be mindful of portion size - 20g is enough but not while on the shakes as they alone are quite Calorific!

My goal was 15Kg weight loss - I achieved 20Kg (I found my happy weight)

My medication was stopped altogether on starting, but you'll need speak to your DN...

Increased energy was from around week 6-7 - and plenty of it too!

My weight loss was quicker at the beginning but around 1Kg a week towards the end

My belly was the last thing to go!

No - this isn't the end of 'the good stuff'! - It's a journey into the new you, and you should find the new good stuff!

Keep an open mind, and explore new things, and above all enjoy the journey!
 
For those in remission, how do they avoid going back without noticing it?
For me after normalising blood sugars with an ultra low carb diet, followed by significant weigh loss, I continued to monitor my blood sugars and still do so to this day 7 years later. I'd suggest getting a blood glucose meter to monitor your levels and to show you what specific foods (and the ND shakes) do to your blood glucose.
Personally I'm of the opinion that crash diets rarely lead to prolonged weight loss so changed what I ate completely.
My blood sugars were back to normal before most of my weight loss.
Many here followed the ND approach with some success but similarly good results are doable with other dietary changes.
 
For me after normalising blood sugars with an ultra low carb diet, followed by significant weigh loss, I continued to monitor my blood sugars and still do so to this day 7 years later. I'd suggest getting a blood glucose meter to monitor your levels and to show you what specific foods (and the ND shakes) do to your blood glucose.
Personally I'm of the opinion that crash diets rarely lead to prolonged weight loss so changed what I ate completely.
My blood sugars were back to normal before most of my weight loss.
Many here followed the ND approach with some success but similarly good results are doable with other dietary changes.
...worked for me
 
Many thanks for all the advise so far. Hopefully the 12KG or so will be possible in 2mths. How did users get past the same food every day (shakes) etc. Was 800cal per day what most aimed at? Any other tips from dieticians? I'm back eating more mixed nuts (unsalted). Are nuts bad? Just read Roy Taylors book and it was nice to know that just the stuff you got in the supermarket worked just as well. Were users aiming at a weight loss percentage or just a number. In attaining remission (if they did), did they notice any benefits beyond ending medication (and fitting into more clothes). Increased energy seems to be possible (or was that also due to more exercise). How long did users remain on the medication after hitting their weight loss target and the hba1c tests showing them in the "safe" zone. What side effects did users see when in the "crash" diet. Are diabetecs insulin production permanently damaged even when back in "remission". Did users see a continual weight loss or was it slow to start/fast at the end etc. Did the fat come off their waist or did other areas start first (legs/arms/hips etc). Does anyone practise fasting as a way of recovering (or future offsetting) from a "normal" meal (wedding/restaurant etc). Not a big fan of recipie books as usually I am missing 80% of the ingredients. Is this the end of home made bread/wholemeal pasta/cheese on toast/milkshakes/Beer (the good stuff)?

I just kept the weight off
I eat sensibly now, so it's definitely not the end of anything.
I did lose my sweet tooth, so I don't actually like anything too sweet anymore.
I did exercise, the advice now is not to, but I did it before it was an official treatment.
I didn't notice any issue personally.

I didn't worry about BG, any change of anything in diabetes will mess your BG up, it can go up and down with the weather, so I ignored anything for at least two weeks if I made any changes.
With hindsight, a month is probably better.
 
Looking at it now, it seems 15KG is the target as a good BMI is 65-70 for my height and weight. Still unsure whether to jump into a total diet replacement. Never a breakfast eater so might skip that (bar a cup of tea/coffee). I realise I am eating too late so will work on that. So target cut is about 13KG (assuming christmas dinner without dessets is ignored). Did everyone tell their family about the diagnosis (assuming the weight issue was not obvious to everyone else). Some diet plans say 6 weeks and others 2-3mths but I guess the scales and tape measure will answer that. Hoping to hit the 30min per day exercise straight away and then see what extra is needed if weight does not fall as targeted. Hesitant to take the metaformin till after christmas day as GP noted stomach aches are very common (if not worse for some). Then again the remission results for such a diet are less than 50% success which scares me rigid. I don't want to say yes to the pharmacist who said they could keep the prescription ready as these drugs were long term... GP seemed more happy with gradual weight loss and come back in a 2 months but I'm hoping the next blood tests then, will show a number I can keep to for months after and earn the remission "badge".
 
I told my family. I think for my siblings it's important for them to be able to factor in to their consideration of their own potential risk. (Already some family history and one of my brothers was pre-diabetic a few years ago, he reversed it by changing his dietary lifestyle - cutting out pastries for breakfast, which is a common breakfast where he lives, and cutting heavily down on sugar in his diet. I also wanted to explain to my kids why I was weighing my food and changing what I was eating.) I took a little longer to tell my partner's family but told them in time to ask not to be given a delicious jar of sweets for Christmas as I was last year.

I'm not sure what you mean about "assuming the weight issue wasn't obvious to everyone else" - being overweight doesn't necessarily mean you have or will develop diabetes, and my grandfather's type 2 diabetes was diagnosed when he was underweight, my brother who was previously pre-diabetic has never been overweight - although he did also decide to lose a bit of weight to get to the "ideal weight" for his height. So I wouldn't expect your family to guess that you're diabetic from your weight or if they notice that you have lost weight once you have.
 
Looking at it now, it seems 15KG is the target as a good BMI is 65-70 for my height and weight. Still unsure whether to jump into a total diet replacement. Never a breakfast eater so might skip that (bar a cup of tea/coffee). I realise I am eating too late so will work on that. So target cut is about 13KG (assuming christmas dinner without dessets is ignored). Did everyone tell their family about the diagnosis (assuming the weight issue was not obvious to everyone else). Some diet plans say 6 weeks and others 2-3mths but I guess the scales and tape measure will answer that. Hoping to hit the 30min per day exercise straight away and then see what extra is needed if weight does not fall as targeted. Hesitant to take the metaformin till after christmas day as GP noted stomach aches are very common (if not worse for some). Then again the remission results for such a diet are less than 50% success which scares me rigid. I don't want to say yes to the pharmacist who said they could keep the prescription ready as these drugs were long term... GP seemed more happy with gradual weight loss and come back in a 2 months but I'm hoping the next blood tests then, will show a number I can keep to for months after and earn the remission "badge".
You said in a previous post that the NHS "remission T2 diet option is not on offer where I live", but that post seems to have been before you spoke to your GP? If you've only gone by information online, do ask your GP specifically about it; the NHS is supposed to be in the process of rolling out this programme, so it may be available in more areas than are listed online. The great thing about the NHS programme is that you get regular support from a dietician/counsellor, for a whole year, in sticking to the initial very low calorie phase and then also finding and sticking to a healthy maintenance diet.

Travellor's previous comments are correct. There are three different ways of dealing with Type 2:

1) Just take drugs to try to manage it.
2) Change to a low-carb diet, permanently, to try to manage it.
3) Go on a very low calorie diet ('VLCD')-- the 'Newcastle Diet'-- to try to reverse it.

If you go for option 3, and it works-- this means you have reversed your insulin resistance, so you can eat a normal healthy diet for the rest of your life; you do not have to eat low-carb.

Where option 3 works, it works because a crash diet-- a VLCD for 8-12 weeks-- makes your body particularly likely to shed visceral fat. (It is excess visceral fat that triggers T2D. Some people have excess visceral fat even if they don't have much subcutaneous fat, and some people can have lots of subcutaneous fat but little visceral fat.) Gradual weight loss can lead to losing visceral fat, but is less likely to-- you may only or mostly lose subcutaneous fat instead-- so is less likely to achieve the goal of remission/reversal.

There's a lot of good information online about the Newcastle research and the Newcastle diet, for example this booklet, produced by the Newcastle team in 2018: https://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwncla.../files/201809 Sample Recipes & meal plans.pdf .

If the NHS programme really isn't available in your area, you should give your GP some more information about the Newcastle plan, and the NHS programme-- unfortunately, a lot of GPs don't really know much about it-- and discuss how, specifically, he or she could support you.

Finally: You say "the remission results for such a diet are less than 50% success which scares me rigid." That's not quite correct. In the main study to date, nearly two-thirds of people achieved remission-- *if* they lost 10kg or more and kept at least 10kg off for two years: see for example https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/weight-loss-type-2-diabetes-remission-direct-latest .

So, if you kick-start with the Newcastle diet, then lose the rest of the 13kg you're aiming for, and then keep at least 10kg of that off-- you are very likely to achieve and maintain remission. And, even if you don't achieve reversal, studies show that doing the VLCD is likely to improve your blood glucose and reduce your need for medication. Well worth a try!
 
The great thing about the NHS programme is that you get regular support from a dietician/counsellor, for a whole year, in sticking to the initial very low calorie phase and then also finding and sticking to a healthy maintenance diet.
I did this as part of the 5000 initial Pilot rollout - not sure how many people had success from it, but all I can say is that it helped me in more ways than I could have imagined!

It's being rolled out to more areas I believe now, so ask your GP about it or similar 😉
 
You said in a previous post that the NHS "remission T2 diet option is not on offer where I live", but that post seems to have been before you spoke to your GP? If you've only gone by information online, do ask your GP specifically about it; the NHS is supposed to be in the process of rolling out this programme, so it may be available in more areas than are listed online. The great thing about the NHS programme is that you get regular support from a dietician/counsellor, for a whole year, in sticking to the initial very low calorie phase and then also finding and sticking to a healthy maintenance diet.

Travellor's previous comments are correct. There are three different ways of dealing with Type 2:

1) Just take drugs to try to manage it.
2) Change to a low-carb diet, permanently, to try to manage it.
3) Go on a very low calorie diet ('VLCD')-- the 'Newcastle Diet'-- to try to reverse it.

If you go for option 3, and it works-- this means you have reversed your insulin resistance, so you can eat a normal healthy diet for the rest of your life; you do not have to eat low-carb.

Where option 3 works, it works because a crash diet-- a VLCD for 8-12 weeks-- makes your body particularly likely to shed visceral fat. (It is excess visceral fat that triggers T2D. Some people have excess visceral fat even if they don't have much subcutaneous fat, and some people can have lots of subcutaneous fat but little visceral fat.) Gradual weight loss can lead to losing visceral fat, but is less likely to-- you may only or mostly lose subcutaneous fat instead-- so is less likely to achieve the goal of remission/reversal.

There's a lot of good information online about the Newcastle research and the Newcastle diet, for example this booklet, produced by the Newcastle team in 2018: https://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwncla.../files/201809 Sample Recipes & meal plans.pdf .

If the NHS programme really isn't available in your area, you should give your GP some more information about the Newcastle plan, and the NHS programme-- unfortunately, a lot of GPs don't really know much about it-- and discuss how, specifically, he or she could support you.

Finally: You say "the remission results for such a diet are less than 50% success which scares me rigid." That's not quite correct. In the main study to date, nearly two-thirds of people achieved remission-- *if* they lost 10kg or more and kept at least 10kg off for two years: see for example https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/weight-loss-type-2-diabetes-remission-direct-latest .

So, if you kick-start with the Newcastle diet, then lose the rest of the 13kg you're aiming for, and then keep at least 10kg of that off-- you are very likely to achieve and maintain remission. And, even if you don't achieve reversal, studies show that doing the VLCD is likely to improve your blood glucose and reduce your need for medication. Well worth a try!

That is interesting about the difference in diets.
I noticed slow weight loss over a year didn't give the results I wanted, so I did the Newcastle diet at the end, even though I had already lost a lot of weight, it was the Newcastle Diet that did reverse my diabetes.
 
That is interesting about the difference in diets.
I noticed slow weight loss over a year didn't give the results I wanted, so I did the Newcastle diet at the end, even though I had already lost a lot of weight, it was the Newcastle Diet that did reverse my diabetes.
Yup! That is *the* thing about the 'Newcastle diet': a very low calorie diet causes the body to shed visceral fat preferentially, whereas a moderate reduction in calories doesn't have that effect.

Keep in mind that Prof Roy Taylor is based in the University of Newcastle's 'Magnetic Resonance Centre'. That's magnetic resonance as in MRI scans! He and his colleagues discovered not only that VLCDs can reverse Type 2 but also how this works, by scanning people's bodies so they could actually see what was going on with the fat in and around their livers and pancreases.

Here's the Centre's webpage about this, with links to some articles and slides: https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#scientificinformation
 
Yup! That is *the* thing about the 'Newcastle diet': a very low calorie diet causes the body to shed visceral fat preferentially, whereas a moderate reduction in calories doesn't have that effect.

Keep in mind that Prof Roy Taylor is based in the University of Newcastle's 'Magnetic Resonance Centre'. That's magnetic resonance as in MRI scans! He and his colleagues discovered not only that VLCDs can reverse Type 2 but also how this works, by scanning people's bodies so they could actually see what was going on with the fat in and around their livers and pancreases.

Here's the Centre's webpage about this, with links to some articles and slides: https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#scientificinformation

I did it just when it first hit the news, so I did exactly as the first trial did.
Just the shakes, no changes as no one knew why it worked, just that it did.
 
I did it just when it first hit the news, so I did exactly as the first trial did.
Just the shakes, no changes as no one knew why it worked, just that it did.
And of course the fact that it works is the main thing! But knowing why helps a lot, especially for people (including some GPs) who are uncertain or sceptical.
 
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