Statins

[AlisonM]

Point 1: I support Northerner totally in his decision. He's obviously done the research and made an informed decision for himself based on his own needs, he's not trying to tell anyone else what to do.

Point 2: GP's aren't all knowing, indeed they're frequently as much in the dark as we are and can approach treatment with a "let's try this, it may work" spirit. This has been my experience with them over the years, so that I do not take any doctor's advice as gospel, but do my own research as well and challenge them if I come to a different conclusion. It's my body, my health and my life, which is why I will continue taking the statins in conjunction with a low fat, low carb, low sugar diet. My cholesterol readings were sky high at diagnosis and folk on both sides of my family have had strokes and heart disease in the past. I'm at high risk myself, that makes it worth the risk as far as I'm concerned. If my cholesterol comes down to acceptable levels, I will reconsider.

Point 3: This thread has caused folk to think, it's started a vigorous debate which is a healthy thing. I believe it's worthwhile discussing this because it brings up points we all need to consider.

 

[Northerner]

I don't see how this thread fits in as a thread in a diabetics' support group.

This quoting from various tomes and opinions being thrust in from non medically qualified members on statins is IMHO in total conflict with the premise on which this forum was formed.

I would almost suggest that there are many posting in this thread who could save the NHS a lot of money by totally disregarding their GP/Consultant's advice and filling the pockets of the authors of the quoted books.

Hi John, I'm sorry you don't think this is an appropriate topic, but I would respectfully disagree with you. There have been several threads in the past on the same topic, and this is because it is very much a part of the medication automatically assigned to many people once they have been diagnosed with diabetes. I have similar concerns (as do many others) about the use of therapeutic doses of aspirin.

If I wasn't diabetic there would be no question of me being prescribed statins, so I was anxious to learn all I could about the arguments both for and against taking them. It is not clear-cut - in fact an earlier post in this thread (Ellowynne's) reveals how contrary the advice can be from medical professionals - if they can't agree, then who do we know who to place our trust in? We can only learn what we can and make a personal decision based on our interpretation of the evidence, and the relative risks.

I would also add that I have been helped in coming to my decision by the input from others sharing their experiences - both for and against - and the extra links to information they have supplied. If it's OK to discuss metformin and gliclazide, why not statins?

 

[katie]

Why should ANY topic be excluded? As long as it's not someone attempting to offend people we should be able to discuss whatever we want, it is a message board after all.

 

[Steff]

A forum is a place, situation, or group in which people exchange ideas and discuss issues, especially important public issue.I just wanted to look the meaning up i thought in here we could discuss whatever topic we wanted i dont see why statins should be excluded from that,as stated previously northener started this thread talking of his own personal experience with statins.

 

[Bill Wilson]

Hi Northener,

I agree completely. I have been badly affected having taken a statin for 6 months. I understand that my condition is irreversible.
Please also read:
The Statin Damage Crisis
by
Dr. Duanne Graveline MD
This book, especially the last two chapters (17 & 18) will really open your eyes to the dangers.

Bill Wilson

 

[DiabeticDave]

Hi Northener,

I agree completely. I have been badly affected having taken a statin for 6 months. I understand that my condition is irreversible.
Please also read:
The Statin Damage Crisis
by
Dr. Duanne Graveline MD
This book, especially the last two chapters (17 & 18) will really open your eyes to the dangers.

Bill Wilson

Thanks Bill....................well worth a read folks!!!, by the good Doctor Graveline MD.


http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Statin-Drugs-Side-Effects.html


and this

http://medicationsense.com/articles/april_june_04/graveline.html

More!!!!

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/lipitor.html

 

[DiabeticDave]

The Statin Damage Crisis
by Duane Graveline, M.D., Dr. Malcolm Kendrick (Introduction by)

About this title: The purpose in the choice of the title The Statin Damage Crisis is to draw attention to the thousands of statin damaged people who have written to Dr Graveline about their disabling neuropathies, myopathies and a variety of neurodegenerative conditions such as ALS and Parkinsonism associated with statin use. Although much of the book's

The point being folks.........there will always be two sides to an argument, it depends which one you believe........me, I vote Tory, and I don't belive in God...not every one on here will share those views.

 

[katie]

The point being folks.........there will always be two sides to an argument, it depends which one you believe........me, I vote Tory, and I don't belive in God...not every one on here will share those views.

eew tory??

😉

 

[Jean]

This message board is meant to be helpful!

It was the Vicar wot done it in the Library with the lead piping.[/QUOTE]

This comment is not in the least helpful.

It is easy to be facetious - much, much easier than commenting on the link I supplied.

Some of us have had great difficulty coming to terms with a diagnosis of diabetes and all its consequences. We have been most appreciative of the help we have received from this message board. We can well do without facetious observations.

Surely PeterC cannot be running away from the possibility that oxidation and inflammation are more likely to be the cause of heart disease than cholesterol?

I re-iterate - the link is http://www.fsponline-recommends.co....D=2147066075&u=11110812&g=0&o=90640&l=172856& - and perhaps PeterC will have the good grace to take it seriously.

 

[Northerner]

Thanks for the link Jean!🙂

 

[bev]

As a non-diabetic i have found this thread very informative as i have recently been seeing a cardiologist -luckily i dont seem to have a problem - but i would like to know for future reference as Alex is 11 and i am certain this subject will no doubt surface one day for him - and in my opinion - the more knowledge you have about a subject - the more able you are to make an informed decision.

I dont know why its a problem to share opinions and knowledge about a subject that does actually affect many on here. It would be a terrible shame if people felt they couldnt post for fear of being told that their subject matter was irrelevant.

Northerner - you have started a debate about a subject that is important to many of us - so i say WELL DONE!🙂Bev

 

[DiabeticDave]

As a non-diabetic i have found this thread very informative as i have recently been seeing a cardiologist -luckily i dont seem to have a problem - but i would like to know for future reference as Alex is 11 and i am certain this subject will no doubt surface one day for him - and in my opinion - the more knowledge you have about a subject - the more able you are to make an informed decision.

I dont know why its a problem to share opinions and knowledge about a subject that does actually affect many on here. It would be a terrible shame if people felt they couldnt post for fear of being told that their subject matter was irrelevant.

Northerner - you have started a debate about a subject that is important to many of us - so i say WELL DONE!🙂Bev

Yeh............and cost me a relationship😉😉...





Kidding

 

[Carina1962]

high cholesterol and high blood glucose

I was put on statins straight away as my cholesterol was 9.4 and it turns out that i may also be diabetic (i will know my results this Friday). Does high cholesterol go hand in hand with diabetes? i've had high cholesterol for several years and have not taken statins in the hope that i could reduce it myself through lifestyle change but it turns out that my routine blood test a couple of weeks ago revealed both high cholesterol again and this time high blood glucose, does this mean that i could have prevented getting diabetes if i had treated my high choleterol say 5 years ago?

 

[katie]

I was put on statins straight away as my cholesterol was 9.4 and it turns out that i may also be diabetic (i will know my results this Friday). Does high cholesterol go hand in hand with diabetes? i've had high cholesterol for several years and have not taken statins in the hope that i could reduce it myself through lifestyle change but it turns out that my routine blood test a couple of weeks ago revealed both high cholesterol again and this time high blood glucose, does this mean that i could have prevented getting diabetes if i had treated my high choleterol say 5 years ago?

Hi Carina. No, Cholesterol does not cause diabetes as far as i'm aware...

Hope you saw the replies to your thread: http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=4128

 

[Peter C]

It was the Vicar wot done it in the Library with the lead piping.

This comment is not in the least helpful.

It is easy to be facetious - much, much easier than commenting on the link I supplied.

Some of us have had great difficulty coming to terms with a diagnosis of diabetes and all its consequences. We have been most appreciative of the help we have received from this message board. We can well do without facetious observations.

Surely PeterC cannot be running away from the possibility that oxidation and inflammation are more likely to be the cause of heart disease than cholesterol?

I re-iterate - the link is http://www.fsponline-recommends.co....D=2147066075&u=11110812&g=0&o=90640&l=172856& - and perhaps PeterC will have the good grace to take it seriously.[/QUOTE]

Hi Jean, consider my wrist well and truly slapped for trying to inject a little humour.

But yes of course oxidation and inflamation are involved in heart disease - it is oxidation in particular that allows the LDL carrying cholesterol to become attached to the macrophages in the endothelium and artery walls causing the cholesterol to create narrowing of the arteries and plaques. Oxidation is just a turnkey it is the cholesterol wot does it.

As for your link I will endeavour to take it seriously but ...
1. Its an advert for a food supplement, CoQ10 and moreover a food supplement that has been found by meta analysis of research papers by the Mayo Clinic and harvard University to have no discernable effect on heart disease.
2. The link is quite hilarious and contradicts itself - it proclaims in the first papragraph that Enzyme CoQ10 " prevents heart attacks and strokes by stopping cholesterol blocking arteries." But then it goes on to cite Kendrick that Cholesterol is NOt involved in heart disease !!!! Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing?
3. It cites kendrick saying that cholesterol is not involved in cvd and then shows some nice diagrams on the right hand side of the page. Oh NO ! What's that white stuff narrowing arteries and causing plaques . why bless me it's that thingy called cholesterol.

Take that advert seriously - its a joke !

 

[Ellowyne]

Lost Faith In medicines

If I wasn't diabetic there would be no question of me being prescribed statins, so I was anxious to learn all I could about the arguments both for and against taking them. It is not clear-cut - in fact an earlier post in this thread (Ellowynne's) reveals how contrary the advice can be from medical professionals - if they can't agree, then who do we know who to place our trust in? We can only learn what we can and make a personal decision based on our interpretation of the evidence, and the relative risks.

Yes, I have to agree with you, Medical professionals 'do not' always know what is right for us. Over the past two years I have had a terrible time with, really what boils down to negligence with the lack of care I have received. Last year, I had severe pain in my back, long story, and was very quickly prescribed Fentanyl patches for the pain. Fentantyl patches are a very strong narcotic that one is supposed to be on for a maximum of 3 months.
10 months later, 5 stone lighter and I was still on Fentantyl and I was dying.

The Fentantyl was of such a high dose in my body it was slowy killing me. I was encouraged to stay on it because 'I was losing weight!' I was not put on it for weight loss...it was for pain! I decided to ignore the Drs advice and get myself off the patches. After much severe withdrawels and a 3 night stay in hospital I am nearly 1 year Fentayl free. If I had listened to the 'so called' professionals, that beleived that all my side affects were 'in my head', I truly do not beleive I would be alive today. However, since Fentanyl I have had nothing but health problems which I believe is as a direct result of the Fentanyl patches....However, I can not prove this, I just know, I know how my body has been left and feels today.

To be honest, I have 'No faith' in what any professional of the medical type tells me anymore. My Diabetic treatment is a complete hash and I am constantly being given contradicting advice. Both the Diabetic Dr and my GP have told me straight, that if I do not take any medication to lower my blood sugars that I will be dead, yes dead, within 10 years through diabetic complicated illness.

And what is so bloody funny is that none of them can 'agree' how to treat me!!! 😡...well apart from all telling me how terrible it is that I will not try Metformin again, they are really pushy with the Metformin, but, as I told them, tried it and it made me ill...even the slow release ones!

So, appox 7 months on since being diagnosed and my BS runs at around 11 (HBA1C RESULTS) I have high cholestrial, liver is'nt great, Gall bladder problems, and a Pancreus that is not well enough to withstand Byatta injections(Sorry if I have name wrong)...and I have 10 years left unless I reduce my B'Sugars's!...all's good then

To be honest I am past caring...I am confused and not one medical professional can give me a clear way forward with my treatment....Then, no offence intended, but I read through these posts and my mind just flips...what am I to do? I am just so scared and confused.

 

[Northerner]

Hi Ellowynne, I'm very sorry to hear of the problems you have had. I know you feel let down by them all, but is there one who you trust the most - your GP perhaps? I got the impression that you felt pressured by your consultant but that your GP was more understanding. If so, try to work with them to find out what other therapies you can try if the metformin was unsuitable. If you can just get your levels under better control I think that you will start to feel more positive about the future.

Book an appointment and try to set some, or maybe just one, priority that you can concentrate on and work towards. It sounds as though you are currently feeling overwhelmed by the number of things you are being told to do or change, and therefore feel unable to set your sights on any of them. Do let us know how things go.🙂

 

[Copepod]

I tend to think it's worth trying simple things first eg dietary change, increase exercise, reducing body weight etc to reduce blood cholesterol, blood pressure etc. Some areas do have exercise on prescription schemes, for example - reduced rates at gyms, but many schemes such as health walks are completely free anyway. I recently met a GP who lost a stone in weight over the past year, started walking and cycling more and ended up cycling from London to Paris on a fund raising trip - he was pleasantly surprised by the improvement in his blood pressure, bordy weight and general wellbeing, and it has influenced his recommendations to patients. Of course, sometimes drugs are essential, but not necessarily the first line of attack against a health problem.

 

[HelenP]

I was put on statins straight away as my cholesterol was 9.4 and it turns out that i may also be diabetic (i will know my results this Friday). Does high cholesterol go hand in hand with diabetes?

Sorry I don't know enough about all this to answer your question with any certainty, but MY experience was that at diagnosis my BG level was v high, ie 19.something, followed by 18.something a few days later, and despite being very overweight, my cholesterol level was pronounced 'good' at 4.4, something which totally and pleasantly surprised me!! So in MY case, the two did not go hand in hand.....

Good luck with your results Carina.

WHAT an interesting thread............

xx

 

[Jean]

Now we can put levity aside, Peter C...

...and on with a serious discussion.

Oxidation and inflamation are not merely involved in heart disease - they are essential factors. As you say, the turnkey. Wthout oxidation, cholesterol - so beneficial to the body - would proceed harmlessly on its way.

But since it doesn't, a choice has to be made.

Either we focus on negating the work of oxidation or we attack chlolesterol. You opt for the latter. And yet there is an increasing body of evidence that shows cholesterol to be merely the tool that has been perverted by the free radicals in the body.

Forget the commercial in the link I supplied, for CoQ10 is, as you say, at the moment of doubtful value: it has to undergo more rigorous trials than hitherto if it is to pass muster.

Instead, consider the overall hypothesis: if we act against oxidation, cholesterol can be left in peace.

(Even here, though, there is a balance that needs to be attained: supplementary antioxidant vitamins can function so well that they neutralise free radicals to such an extent that the role they perform in attacking bacteria and cancer cells in the body is impaired.)

So set the supplements on one side and focus on the dietary antioxidants. They absorb the free radicals.

If, however, the antioxidant level in the body is low,the free radicals run riot. And there is some evidence to show that diabetics have more free radicals and fewer antioxidants than other folk.

The consumption of fruit and vegetables aids the production of antioxidants and the combatting of the ill-effects of oxidation. This, in turn, reduces the damaging effect free radicals can otherwise have on cholesterol.

Thus it can fairly be contended that the enemy should not be identified as cholesterol, but instead the finger should be pointed at oxidation - and this is where the counter-attack should be focussed.