Statin thoughts……

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Leadinglights said:
I take a low dose statin 10mg atorvastatin with no problem and even though I eat cheese, butter, full fat yoghurt, cream, eggs, my cholesterol is low 3.5 and triglycerides 1.25. But I do low carb 70g per day
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Is it the Atorvastatin keeping your levels low in spite of what you’re eating? ie. would they be higher if you weren’t on a statin on the same diet?
 
Teadance said:
Is it the Atorvastatin keeping your levels low in spite of what you’re eating? ie. would they be higher if you weren’t on a statin on the same diet?
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I did stop taking for a few weeks as I was getting some shoulder pain and a friend mentioned that he had the same and stopped the statin and it helped but it didn't make any difference to my shoulders, cholesterol went up a tiny bit to 3.8 if i recall.
Otherwise you will never really know if the statin is keeping it low.
 
Teadance said:
Thanks. I get the feeling they just want you to take them. Good luck with your check up!
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I’ve gone from being cautious about statins for me personally (while completely understanding their population-level benefits), to wondering why I got myself in such a pickle over the stats and data. The vast majority of people are able to takes statins with no ill effects, or can switch to a different type. My guess would be that far more people on the forum take statins than don’t? It is true that some members have had a difficult time with them, but those severe reactions are relatively rare.

This video on unpicking absolute risk vs relative risk I found very helpful:

I could see my QRISK score creeping up as the years passed, and in the end decided to give them a go. I’ve been on a low dose of Atorvastatin for a few years now. Absolutely zero negative effects and my lipid panel all now seems to sit within recommended levels.

I don’t see any effect from a small dose of sertraline over the gloomy winter months either.
 
I allegedly had a TIA last year. Nothing showed up on the CT Scan or MRI so they assumed it was a TIA and put me straight on to 80mg Atorvastatin. My blood sugar has always been excellent but 6 weeks after taking the statin the HbA1C was at 47. I’m now not taking the statin. Hopefully the blood sugar will go back to normal.
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
I’ve gone from being cautious about statins for me personally (while completely understanding their population-level benefits), to wondering why I got myself in such a pickle over the stats and data. The vast majority of people are able to takes statins with no ill effects, or can switch to a different type. My guess would be that far more people on the forum take statins than don’t? It is true that some members have had a difficult time with them, but those severe reactions are relatively rare.

This video on unpicking absolute risk vs relative risk I found very helpful:

I could see my QRISK score creeping up as the years passed, and in the end decided to give them a go. I’ve been on a low dose of Atorvastatin for a few years now. Absolutely zero negative effects and my lipid panel all now seems to sit within recommended levels.

I don’t see any effect from a small dose of sertraline over the gloomy winter months either.
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What a very interesting video.
 
Peter1982 said:
I allegedly had a TIA last year. Nothing showed up on the CT Scan or MRI so they assumed it was a TIA and put me straight on to 80mg Atorvastatin. My blood sugar has always been excellent but 6 weeks after taking the statin the HbA1C was at 47. I’m now not taking the statin. Hopefully the blood sugar will go back to normal.
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I have heard they can increase BG. Such a difficult decision to make.
 
It’s very difficult to know what to make of the real or supposed connections between various lipids, CVD and sat fats. My earlier forays with low carbs and low cals brought my A1c down to normal levels but my HDL is abnormally high, with LDL normal and TriGs very low, overall total 6.1. I take no meds. I have embarked upon a 3 month trial of dropping my sat fats from 37g to 19g whilst raising my carbs from 145g to 200g, just to see whether it affects my lipids. Even if they come down, will that be beneficial? No one really knows. We are all at sea here.
 
childofthesea43 said:
Even if they come down, will that be beneficial? No one really knows. We are all at sea here.
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Whether they come down in response to specific diet changes is a tricky question and one that's very hard to prove with 100% certainty. Whether it would be beneficial though is well proven. The statin clinical trials all show reduced incidence of cardiovascular 'events' (heart attacks, strokes and so on) for those taking the statin compared to the control groups. A statin works by inhibiting cholesterol output from the liver, so lower cholesterol = less 'events'. Statins were developed as drugs on the assumption that lowering cholesterol would have a marketable effect, an assumption based on previous science, and it did have the planned effect, which demonstrates both the validity of the previous science and the efficacy of the statin. Diet changes which basically replicate the effects of the statin are very highly likely to be beneficial.
 
PerSpinasAdAstra said:
Whether they come down in response to specific diet changes is a tricky question and one that's very hard to prove with 100% certainty. Whether it would be beneficial though is well proven. The statin clinical trials all show reduced incidence of cardiovascular 'events' (heart attacks, strokes and so on) for those taking the statin compared to the control groups. A statin works by inhibiting cholesterol output from the liver, so lower cholesterol = less 'events'. Statins were developed as drugs on the assumption that lowering cholesterol would have a marketable effect, an assumption based on previous science, and it did have the planned effect, which demonstrates both the validity of the previous science and the efficacy of the statin. Diet changes which basically replicate the effects of the statin are very highly likely to be beneficial.
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From my readings over the past year I do not think the matter is conclusive at all.
 
childofthesea43 said:
It’s very difficult to know what to make of the real or supposed connections between various lipids, CVD and sat fats. My earlier forays with low carbs and low cals brought my A1c down to normal levels but my HDL is abnormally high, with LDL normal and TriGs very low, overall total 6.1. I take no meds. I have embarked upon a 3 month trial of dropping my sat fats from 37g to 19g whilst raising my carbs from 145g to 200g, just to see whether it affects my lipids. Even if they come down, will that be beneficial? No one really knows. We are all at sea here.
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I agree ‘We are all at sea’. The video ‘everydayupsanddowns’ posted is very interesting. The more I investigate the more components there seems to be to consider. And no doubt refinements to our understanding is being made all the time. One question is, ‘Will reducing cholesterol through diet and lifestyle changes bring the long term benefits that statins are purported to do, or do statins still have additional benefits?’ Are they worth taking anyway even if you bring your levels down yourself?
 
PerSpinasAdAstra said:
Whether they come down in response to specific diet changes is a tricky question and one that's very hard to prove with 100% certainty. Whether it would be beneficial though is well proven. The statin clinical trials all show reduced incidence of cardiovascular 'events' (heart attacks, strokes and so on) for those taking the statin compared to the control groups. A statin works by inhibiting cholesterol output from the liver, so lower cholesterol = less 'events'. Statins were developed as drugs on the assumption that lowering cholesterol would have a marketable effect, an assumption based on previous science, and it did have the planned effect, which demonstrates both the validity of the previous science and the efficacy of the statin. Diet changes which basically replicate the effects of the statin are very highly likely to be beneficial.
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What about the incidence of increased blood glucose from taking statins? Or any other side effects, for that matter.

“Diet changes which basically replicate the effects of the statin are very highly likely to be beneficial.” But are they as beneficial as taking a statin long term? Are there additional benefits from statins?
 
Teadance said:
What about the incidence of increased blood glucose from taking statins? Or any other side effects, for that matter.

“Diet changes which basically replicate the effects of the statin are very highly likely to be beneficial.” But are they as beneficial as taking a statin long term? Are there additional benefits from statins?
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I asked a consultant diabetologist/endocrinologist about the increase in blood glucose due to statins. I asked in the context of my HbA1c in January and at the time I was all excited to have my meds reduced or stopped. My assumption was that was how it would go - lose a load of weight, get a low HbA1c with extremely, unnaturally low cholesterol numbers, and be promptly taken off the meds to see how the weight loss has changed matters. His strong advice (complete with 'not this again' facial expressions) was to stay on the statin, the metformin and the dapagliflozin so long as I wasn't experiencing any side effects. 'If it isn't broken don't fix it'. He didn't address the potential for blood glucose increase from the statin. Perhaps the idea is that a statin plus metformin in combination yields cholesterol control and improved insulin sensitivity with the effects on fasting BG from the two medications cancelling each other out (or better)? I have no idea, but I plan to keep asking.

I don't know enough about statins to comment on additional benefits. I've decided to learn more though, if only to be better be able to sort fact from fiction on this forum and elsewhere. I've found this series of interviews with a high-flying lipidologist - six and a half hours of interview material in three parts. Statins are discussed in the 3rd episode I believe. I'm an hour and a half into episode one which details the 'types' of cholesterol and how atherosclerosis happens. Learned some things; no question the guy is a real live actual expert on cholesterol and not some BS artist with a YouTube channel or a book to sell. Links to the three YouTube videos are on this page if curious:

theproof.com

Lipid Series

3-Part Lipid Series & Cheat Sheet Key learnings from The Proof’s Lipid Series with lipidologist Dr. Thomas Dayspring Part 1 BLOG In this episode, we examine how our body absorbs lipids and transports them throughout the body – and what happens when it goes wrong. We cover: What the lipid...
theproof.com theproof.com
 
My cholesterol is different with every blood test.
Sometimes it’s fine, sometimes a bit over the ‘limit’.
Every time it’s over they want me to start statins.
Then when it’s okay they say I don’t need them.

it seems to go up when I cut carbs, and then go down when I add them back into my diet.
 
I have taken statins for a long time. I also have shoulder pain but I think it could be because I have dislocated it several times. It's quite entertaining as I can now put it back rather easily and noisily. Shoulder joints are just badly designed. Not as bad as knee joints but nearly.
 
JonathanGi said:
I have taken statins for a long time. I also have shoulder pain but I think it could be because I have dislocated it several times. It's quite entertaining as I can now put it back rather easily and noisily. Shoulder joints are just badly designed. Not as bad as knee joints but nearly.
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I sympathise, I have problems with both.
 
PerSpinasAdAstra said:
I asked a consultant diabetologist/endocrinologist about the increase in blood glucose due to statins. I asked in the context of my HbA1c in January and at the time I was all excited to have my meds reduced or stopped. My assumption was that was how it would go - lose a load of weight, get a low HbA1c with extremely, unnaturally low cholesterol numbers, and be promptly taken off the meds to see how the weight loss has changed matters. His strong advice (complete with 'not this again' facial expressions) was to stay on the statin, the metformin and the dapagliflozin so long as I wasn't experiencing any side effects. 'If it isn't broken don't fix it'. He didn't address the potential for blood glucose increase from the statin. Perhaps the idea is that a statin plus metformin in combination yields cholesterol control and improved insulin sensitivity with the effects on fasting BG from the two medications cancelling each other out (or better)? I have no idea, but I plan to keep asking.

I don't know enough about statins to comment on additional benefits. I've decided to learn more though, if only to be better be able to sort fact from fiction on this forum and elsewhere. I've found this series of interviews with a high-flying lipidologist - six and a half hours of interview material in three parts. Statins are discussed in the 3rd episode I believe. I'm an hour and a half into episode one which details the 'types' of cholesterol and how atherosclerosis happens. Learned some things; no question the guy is a real live actual expert on cholesterol and not some BS artist with a YouTube channel or a book to sell. Links to the three YouTube videos are on this page if curious:

theproof.com

Lipid Series

3-Part Lipid Series & Cheat Sheet Key learnings from The Proof’s Lipid Series with lipidologist Dr. Thomas Dayspring Part 1 BLOG In this episode, we examine how our body absorbs lipids and transports them throughout the body – and what happens when it goes wrong. We cover: What the lipid...
theproof.com theproof.com
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Thanks. I’ll take a look.
 
Can I just blame my age? I can still do plenty of exercise. Probably be about 30 miles of running this week and rather more miles on the bike. I wonder if this is increasing my bone density? I am, at least at the moment, just about maintaining my body weight. A bit of extra wouldn't go amiss!
 
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