Questions about Newcastle diet, weight loss and what comes after

[Burylancs]

I reversed my fatty liver, confirmed by ultrasound scans, and put my T2 into remission. What's more I expect it to remain in remission in future while I am here to keep my weight down. Roy Taylor's book, Life without Diabetes T2, was responsible for that. Give credit where it is due,

So I repeat, 'Nobody has ever 'reversed' a secure dx of Type 2 Diabetes.' And misinformation about 'reversing' Type 2 Diabetes has no place on this Support Group.

 

[PerSpinasAdAstra]

So I repeat, 'Nobody has ever 'reversed' a secure dx of Type 2 Diabetes.' And misinformation about 'reversing' Type 2 Diabetes has no place on this Support Group.

I don't understand your attitude to this. You're responding to someone who said they reversed their fatty liver, not their diabetes. I did that too - the liver part. My initial blood tests showed I had markers of liver damage, no more. My fasting BG was very high, no more. My fasting levels now average 4.4 mmol/L (according to the Contour Next, not a bad meter). Fatty liver reversed, without question. Insulin resistance in the liver certainly reversed to an extent, though to what extent I can't know for sure unless I come off Metformin completely, and I don't really want to do that as I'm taking a statin.

I completely agree that nobody has ever reversed a secure diagnosis of Type 2, as far as anyone knows. I have however read one account of a doctor telling a patient that they were 'misdiagnosed', that they were never diabetic in the first place, when their second HbA1c test was in the normal, healthy range. 'Coincidentally', that person immediately lost a mess of weight between initial and second HbA1c tests. Reversed? Or 'misdiagnosed'. Have a read around in the comments to this post on Reddit - Link

Some people have achieved remarkable stability - long term 'control' with no increases in medication after big weight loss. 22 years on Metformin only in one case. 22 years!! This was before Taylor's research, before people were actually trying for it. Bear in mind a post on Reddit lasts only a few days before it sinks into oblivion and is only readily visible to people who have joined the relevant subreddit and scrolled down many pages. 22 years of stability reported within the few days this post was close to the top of the pile on that little corner of Reddit.

What is this issue you have with the concept of remission? Why are you so against the idea that there is a possibility that huge weight loss can make an extraordinary difference. I mean - growing pancreases FFS! - Link - Nobody knows the implications of that. Nobody. Certainly not the doctor who declared a misdiagnosis while ignoring the weight loss staring him or her in the face, probably completely unaware that remission is a real thing in the real world.

Why are you so keen to discourage people from trying in the first place? Maybe that's not what you're trying to do, but that's what it looks like. 'Remission is a lie! Why bother?!'

 

[Nayshiftin]

I don't understand your attitude to this. You're responding to someone who said they reversed their fatty liver, not their diabetes. I did that too - the liver part. My initial blood tests showed I had markers of liver damage, no more. My fasting BG was very high, no more. My fasting levels now average 4.4 mmol/L (according to the Contour Next, not a bad meter). Fatty liver reversed, without question. Insulin resistance in the liver certainly reversed to an extent, though to what extent I can't know for sure unless I come off Metformin completely, and I don't really want to do that as I'm taking a statin.

I completely agree that nobody has ever reversed a secure diagnosis of Type 2, as far as anyone knows. I have however read one account of a doctor telling a patient that they were 'misdiagnosed', that they were never diabetic in the first place, when their second HbA1c test was in the normal, healthy range. 'Coincidentally', that person immediately lost a mess of weight between initial and second HbA1c tests. Reversed? Or 'misdiagnosed'. Have a read around in the comments to this post on Reddit - Link

Some people have achieved remarkable stability - long term 'control' with no increases in medication after big weight loss. 22 years on Metformin only in one case. 22 years!! This was before Taylor's research, before people were actually trying for it. Bear in mind a post on Reddit lasts only a few days before it sinks into oblivion and is only readily visible to people who have joined the relevant subreddit and scrolled down many pages. 22 years of stability reported within the few days this post was close to the top of the pile on that little corner of Reddit.

What is this issue you have with the concept of remission? Why are you so against the idea that there is a possibility that huge weight loss can make an extraordinary difference. I mean - growing pancreases FFS! - Link - Nobody knows the implications of that. Nobody. Certainly not the doctor who declared a misdiagnosis while ignoring the weight loss staring him or her in the face, probably completely unaware that remission is a real thing in the real world.

Why are you so keen to discourage people from trying in the first place? Maybe that's not what you're trying to do, but that's what it looks like. 'Remission is a lie! Why bother?!'

I confused too. But i am also thinking Wow 4.4 thats a great result but with medication. Is it just that the medication works. By using the correct medication and diet or have you succeeded by losing weight alone.
I am one of those who wonders what comes first and if on the right treatment will that help the other.
I am not comparing but using as an illustration.
If a cancer patient got treated went into remission would it all be down to weight loss or the treatment?
Many loose weight with treatment but does that mean the weight loss was the only factor.
Same with diabetes not one thing fits all . So go easy on everyone.
No one likes the journey but its life and making it the best you can.

 

[Eddy Edson]

But i am also thinking Wow 4.4 thats a great result but with medication. Is it just that the medication works. By using the correct medication and diet or have you succeeded by losing weight alone.

Once your fasting levels are down into the "normal" range (ie less than 5.7 mmol/l) the effect of Metformin is almost certainly minimal. It works mainly by increasing your liver's insulin sensitivity. At those kinds of levels, it's very likely that your liver's insulin sensitivity has become "normal" and there's nothing left for the Metformin to do.

Diet probably wouldn't have a big impact on liver insulin sensitivity in the short term (ie, apart from its longer term impact via how much visceral fat you have). And what you ate pre-fast has little effect on T2D fasting BG levels, unless maybe if you have a lot of insulin resistance or insulin insufficiency, I guess. But that's clearly not the case here.

 

[harbottle]

Once your fasting levels are down into the "normal" range (ie less than 5.7 mmol/l) the effect of Metformin is almost certainly minimal. It works mainly by increasing your liver's insulin sensitivity. At those kinds of levels, it's very likely that your liver's insulin sensitivity has become "normal" and there's nothing left for the Metformin to do.

Diet probably wouldn't have a big impact on liver insulin sensitivity in the short term (ie, apart from its longer term impact via how much visceral fat you have). And what you ate pre-fast has little effect on T2D fasting BG levels, unless maybe if you have a lot of insulin resistance or insulin insufficiency, I guess. But that's clearly not the case here.

That appears to be my experience. Fasting levels normalised in 2021, shortly after diagnosis, and stopping Metformin has made no difference. (Although was only on 1000mg for three months, then 500mg for a couple of years after that before someone at the surgery realised and stopped it!)