Nurses across UK vote to strike in first ever national action

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I really hope whatever the outcome is, we have something that helps everyone earn a decent wage so they can feed,clothe themselves and heat their homes without having to rely on foodbanks or other types of benefit. Its a basic need to eat and heat isnt it. I remember in the 70s my parents had a coal fire, we had coal bunkers at the end of the kitchen and the coal man would deliver regularly, I remember being freezing getting out of bed in the morning for school. Now we have double glazing and central heating, insulation so I suppose we have a better starting point.
 
Jenny65 said:
I really hope whatever the outcome is, we have something that helps everyone earn a decent wage so they can feed,clothe themselves and heat their homes without having to rely on foodbanks or other types of benefit. Its a basic need to eat and heat isnt it. I remember in the 70s my parents had a coal fire, we had coal bunkers at the end of the kitchen and the coal man would deliver regularly, I remember being freezing getting out of bed in the morning for school. Now we have double glazing and central heating, insulation so I suppose we have a better starting point.
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People have become soft when it comes to being warm, me included, I'm always cold, eversince taking blood pressure tablets.
I remember having to scrape ice off the bedroom window it was so cold, just coal fires in the downstairs rooms.
 
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Jenny65 said:
I really hope whatever the outcome is, we have something that helps everyone earn a decent wage so they can feed,clothe themselves and heat their homes without having to rely on foodbanks or other types of benefit. Its a basic need to eat and heat isnt it. I remember in the 70s my parents had a coal fire, we had coal bunkers at the end of the kitchen and the coal man would deliver regularly, I remember being freezing getting out of bed in the morning for school. Now we have double glazing and central heating, insulation so I suppose we have a better starting point.
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It is reasonable to expect to heat an entire home, even unused bedrooms?
Is it reasonable to leave the heating running all day, just so it's always warm for anyone arriving home?

Clothes, it is reasonable to expect to change the entire wardrobe seasonally, or should clothing be worn until it wears out.
Designer, supermarket, or charity shop?

Food, take time to actually cook cheap meals, or expect takeaways or ready meals?
Food waste, scrape the pans into the bin, or put the leftovers in the freezer?

I think unfortunately a lot of times some see the answer as the easy option, then complain when they can't afford to keep doing it.

I have the hive, all the radiators are controlled individually.
I never set a schedule, I turn the heating on when I feel cold, and only heat the rooms that are being used.

I do wear some designer clothes, but generally it's Asda, but I do shop in charity shops as well.
And that applies to most purchases.

Food, I never throw anything away, at worse it goes into a chilli eventually.
And I will shop for yellow labels.

My kids do the same.

So, we live within our means, which means adjusting how we live, not expecting a continuing raise in our means.
 
travellor said:
It is reasonable to expect to heat an entire home, even unused bedrooms?
Is it reasonable to leave the heating running all day, just so it's always warm for anyone arriving home?

Clothes, it is reasonable to expect to change the entire wardrobe seasonally, or should clothing be worn until it wears out.
Designer, supermarket, or charity shop?

Food, take time to actually cook cheap meals, or expect takeaways or ready meals?
Food waste, scrape the pans into the bin, or put the leftovers in the freezer?

I think unfortunately a lot of times some see the answer as the easy option, then complain when they can't afford to keep doing it.

I have the hive, all the radiators are controlled individually.
I never set a schedule, I turn the heating on when I feel cold, and only heat the rooms that are being used.

I do wear some designer clothes, but generally it's Asda, but I do shop in charity shops as well.
And that applies to most purchases.

Food, I never throw anything away, at worse it goes into a chilli eventually.
And I will shop for yellow labels.

My kids do the same.

So, we live within our means, which means adjusting how we live, not expecting a continuing raise in our means.
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I wasnt referring to the people who buy designer clothes or heat an empty home, I doubt anyone struggling would do this
 
Jenny65 said:
I wasnt referring to the people who buy designer clothes or heat an empty home, I doubt anyone struggling would do this
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As I said though, if you expect to be able to, and if the definition of "struggling" is not being able to, and the answer is to strike until you can afford that measure of wealth, I foresee many more strikes ahead.
 
I’m not sure working people (including nursing and other hospital staff) who need to visit food banks in order to have staples in the cupboard are having many ready meals
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
I’m not sure working people (including nursing and other hospital staff) who need to visit food banks in order to have staples in the cupboard are having many ready meals
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It's a very interesting question.
How do nurses manage to get the vouchers required for the majority of food banks?
It's actually quite difficult to obtain the vouchers, and there isn't a single "turn up for free" food bank near me, and I live in quite a large city.
From the biggest charities web site.


Referral process
Each food bank works with different frontline professionals, like doctors, health visitors, social workers, and Citizens Advice. These professionals will be able to refer you to a food bank and give you a food bank voucher if they think you need emergency food


And certainly the trust here hasn't listed as one that has opened a food bank, for any of its employees.

The other interesting fact is a complaint in some of the Nursing magazines that nurses on average pay twice as much as MPs for lunch and dinner in the hospital.
That would suggest an expectation that nurses eat in the restaurants in hospitals.
Which is a good expectation, I'm sure we would all like to be able to afford restaurant meals rather than make sandwiches?
But not very budget conscious?
 
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travellor said:
How do nurses manage to get the vouchers required for the majority of food banks?
It's actually quite difficult to obtain the vouchers, and there isn't a single "turn up for free" food bank near me, and I live in quite a large city.
From the biggest charities web site.
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That’s the same system near me. You have to be referred to the food bank by an organisation that assesses your need. You can’t just turn up and ask because you feel like it.

The Trussell Trust reports that 20% of referrals are for households where at least one person is working.

www.theguardian.com

Nurses among rising numbers of workers using food banks, research shows

Trussell Trust figures reveal one in five referrals to its centres were from households where someone worked
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
According to Steve Barclay the NHS doesn't need any cash!

www.thetimes.co.uk

NHS doesn’t need cash, says Steve Barclay

Rishi Sunak faces a new battle with the NHS after his health secretary said he could do without extra cash.Steve Barclay astonished Treasury officials when he
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
That’s the same system near me. You have to be referred to the food bank by an organisation that assesses your need. You can’t just turn up and ask because you feel like it.

The Trussell Trust reports that 20% of referrals are for households where at least one person is working.

www.theguardian.com

Nurses among rising numbers of workers using food banks, research shows

Trussell Trust figures reveal one in five referrals to its centres were from households where someone worked
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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It does seem to be a very attractive headline, but unfortunately it also seems the narrative is completely different


"Examples of people in in-work poverty referred to Trussell Trust food banks in recent months include trainee nurses, teaching assistants, factory workers, retail assistants, delivery drivers and hospitality workers."

"...She added: “We are talking about anyone who is in a minimum wage job, or people on zero hours contracts. These people are often really struggling.”

Greenwich food bank head Jamie Ginns told the Guardian “lots of new faces were coming through the doors” of food banks, adding: “Basically, anyone that is on under £25,000 a year is in danger of using a food bank.”

So, if nurses starting work on £27,000, or averaging over £34,000 I would still question who is supplying them with vouchers, and if it is fair on others who are earning less than £25,000?
 
Why do you assume they're all working full time? And "nursing staff" includes nursing associates (band 4), trainee nursing associates (band 3 I think), health care assistants (band 2 or 3) and others too.

You're also ignoring that nurses aren't asking for their means to be raised. We're asking to not have pay effectively cut  again. Ignore the headline figure the RCN have asked for. No one expects to get 17%. That's a negotiation tactic.
 
42istheanswer said:
Why do you assume they're all working full time? And "nursing staff" includes nursing associates (band 4), trainee nursing associates (band 3 I think), health care assistants (band 2 or 3) and others too.

You're also ignoring that nurses aren't asking for their means to be raised. We're asking to not have pay effectively cut  again. Ignore the headline figure the RCN have asked for. No one expects to get 17%. That's a negotiation tactic.
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Well, it's an interesting concept then.
Any "nursing staff", regardless of full time, part time, actual number of hours worked, to be paid a minimum of £25,000?
And all care assistants, and others to be moved to a starting band 5, in fact parity across the board?
But then they're actually joking, it's just a headline negotiating tactic?
Leads to the question of why strike then, why cause massive disruption, push waiting lists even longer, when no one expects the government to mean what that say, that's just their negotiating tactic.
It will be an interesting winter either way.
 
One possible way to fund the NHS costs in the news.
Cut services provided by them.

Full list of surgeries that could be axed-

Male gynaecomastia reduction surgery
Breast prosthesis removal
Corrective surgery for congenital breast asymmetry
Optical coherence tomography (OCT) use in diabetic retinopathy referral
Shared decision-making for cataract surgery
Glaucoma referral criteria
Thyroid nodule referral and investigation
Asymptomatic carotid artery stenosis screening
Management of abdominal aortic aneurysms (AAAs)
Liposuction
Diastasis recti repair
Angioplasty for PCI (percutaneous coronary intervention) in stable angina
Non-visible haematuria
Needle biopsy of prostate
Penile circumcision
 
travellor said:
Well, it's an interesting concept then.
Any "nursing staff", regardless of full time, part time, actual number of hours worked, to be paid a minimum of £25,000?
And all care assistants, and others to be moved to a starting band 5, in fact parity across the board?
But then they're actually joking, it's just a headline negotiating tactic?
Leads to the question of why strike then, why cause massive disruption, push waiting lists even longer, when no one expects the government to mean what that say, that's just their negotiating tactic.
It will be an interesting winter either way.
Click to expand...
I don't know where you've got that minimum figure from. And while no one has suggested a minimum of band 5 that I'm aware of, band 1 has already effectively been eliminated a couple of years ago as pay was put up to the same as band 2 (partly due to the increase in national minimum wage). So it wouldn't surprise me if eventually band 3 is the minimum pay. Though given you seemed to be saying earlier in this thread that nurses (requiring 3 years full time training, usually at degree level) should be paid the same as jobs which have a much shorter initial training, I'm surprised you aren't calling for band 5 to be the minimum.

I'm sure the RCN would say that they are asking for 17% with the hope of getting it if asked, but I think everyone knows the reality that in any salary negotiation you don't go in asking for the minimum you would like, you go high and they go low and you hope to end up somewhere in the middle. So I very much doubt anyone within the RCN expects to get 17%.
 
There's already been less surgical intervention in AAA's in the last few years and vascular surgeons now usually do much more 'watchful waiting' than they did and don't usually advise 'going in' until the aneurism increases to above about 750 mm. OH's was discovered 'accidentally' when having CT and MRI scans for something quite different. Quarterly ultrasound scans ever since, and so far it hasn't progressed since it was first discovered - but we did have a bit of a scare when they initially found it, as someone we knew pretty well at the time died when his burst - which nobody at all knew he even had prior to this, and that's the danger with them. You don't - and you can literally bleed out completely in 10 -15 minutes if they go.

Also the needle biopsies with prostate cancer have pretty much ceased round here - dunno whether they are still doing template biopsies though - but they have stopped doing the rectal ones, which could always entirely miss anything cancerous and weren't anywhere near 100% reliable in the first place, so that's no bad thing as long as the hospital where the chap's been referred to, has the necessary MRI and CT scanners at their disposal asap.
 
trophywench said:
There's already been less surgical intervention in AAA's in the last few years and vascular surgeons now usually do much more 'watchful waiting' than they did and don't usually advise 'going in' until the aneurism increases to above about 750 mm. OH's was discovered 'accidentally' when having CT and MRI scans for something quite different. Quarterly ultrasound scans ever since, and so far it hasn't progressed since it was first discovered - but we did have a bit of a scare when they initially found it, as someone we knew pretty well at the time died when his burst - which nobody at all knew he even had prior to this, and that's the danger with them. You don't - and you can literally bleed out completely in 10 -15 minutes if they go.

Also the needle biopsies with prostate cancer have pretty much ceased round here - dunno whether they are still doing template biopsies though - but they have stopped doing the rectal ones, which could always entirely miss anything cancerous and weren't anywhere near 100% reliable in the first place, so that's no bad thing as long as the hospital where the chap's been referred to, has the necessary MRI and CT scanners at their disposal asap.
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My other half was due to have a LATP biopsy but he was found to have a UTI so it didn't go ahead, that was at Coventry.
 
I suspect a lot of procedures will start to drop out.
We are going to have to accept a two tier health system.
The NHS providing services they can budget, the private sector will happily take up the slack, and provide an insurance based high level service.
It's already happening with joint replacements, cataracts, investigation procedures.......
 
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