Nurses across UK vote to strike in first ever national action

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I find it worse no one is complaining about the minimum wage.

How can we expect anyone to live on £9.50 an hour, or even worse, the apprentice rate of £4.81.
 
Amity Island said:
@nonethewiser what I find ironic is that the people who are under valued and underpaid for the great work they do are the same people who are happy to watch people getting paid a fortune for doing nothing of any value. Seems the world is upside down. It's about time things get levelled up. Like you say @nonethewiser these celebs could easily go in for free, with the benefit of improving their opportunities and celeb status.
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Such is world we live in AI, people turn a blind eye to people making vast amount of money for sake of entertainment, as sports fan kinda do it myself although it peeves me off what footballers get paid but what can you do, it will always be so.
 
It's worth saying on the title of this thread, that the term "UK" applies in this case on voting to strike only applies to England, Wales, and Northern Ireland.

In NHS Scotland there already has been agreed pay rise equating to around 7% for nurses and staff in the NHS. Since when has it been decided that Scotland is not in the UK?
 
mikeyB said:
It's worth saying on the title of this thread, that the term "UK" applies in this case on voting to strike only applies to England, Wales, and Northern Ireland.

In NHS Scotland there already has been agreed pay rise equating to around 7% for nurses and staff in the NHS. Since when has it been decided that Scotland is not in the UK?
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Erm, they all voted to strike in Scotland.
Guess they tore up the agreement when they got another bite at the cherry if that's true?

"A REVISED pay offer (of 7%) for NHS staff in Scotland has been branded "deeply insulting" and a "kick in the teeth" by trade unions"

I'm sure you'll be backing the 17% asked for instead?
 
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travellor said:
Erm, they all voted to strike in Scotland.
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news.sky.com

Nursing union the Royal College of Nursing announces first strike in its 106-year history

The RCN had called for its members to receive a pay rise of 5% above the RPI inflation rate, which currently stands at above 12%.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
The union said that many of the biggest hospitals in England would see strike action but others "narrowly missed" the legal turnout thresholds required for action.​
​
All NHS employers in Northern Ireland and Scotland would be included and all bar one in Wales met the threshold, they added.​

They have a handy list, though since they've just said it's pretty much all of them I'm not sure why they didn't list the ones where the thresholds were missed: https://news.sky.com/story/is-your-...t-affected-regions-for-nurses-strike-12742686
 
Bruce Stephens said:
news.sky.com

Nursing union the Royal College of Nursing announces first strike in its 106-year history

The RCN had called for its members to receive a pay rise of 5% above the RPI inflation rate, which currently stands at above 12%.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
The union said that many of the biggest hospitals in England would see strike action but others "narrowly missed" the legal turnout thresholds required for action.​
​
All NHS employers in Northern Ireland and Scotland would be included and all bar one in Wales met the threshold, they added.​

They have a handy list, though since they've just said it's pretty much all of them I'm not sure why they didn't list the ones where the thresholds were missed: https://news.sky.com/story/is-your-...t-affected-regions-for-nurses-strike-12742686
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Yes, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, all but one on strike, England missed the turnout in places.

Interesting times.
 
Bruce Stephens said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1590427490232979456
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These sort of tweets are interesting.
Particularly as nurses payscales are public information, and band 5 suggests that actually is the average pay quoted, which makes sense if most nurses are in it.
Well, unless you recently started, only work day shift, have no further experience or responsibility, and leave on the dot.
Then you are just over £27,000.
But everyone is so short staffed, clearly no nurse can do that?
 
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I never earned 27K when I worked and most certainly don't get anywhere near that now I'm retired. I agree we don't need to run 2 cars now so obviously we have that saving, but I'd like to add that neither of us has EVER been able to afford a 'new' car in our lives - just a different second hand one.
 
trophywench said:
I never earned 27K when I worked and most certainly don't get anywhere near that now I'm retired. I agree we don't need to run 2 cars now so obviously we have that saving, but I'd like to add that neither of us has EVER been able to afford a 'new' car in our lives - just a different second hand one.
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It seems nurses have different needs now.
 
travellor said:
It seems nurses have different needs now.
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Well, everyone does in cash terms: (almost) everything is getting more expensive, specifically housing is vastly more costly than it was a few decades ago. 27K is below the median household disposable income (which was £31,400 apparently in the year ending 2021).
 
Bruce Stephens said:
Well, everyone does in cash terms: (almost) everything is getting more expensive, specifically housing is vastly more costly than it was a few decades ago. 27K is below the median household disposable income (which was £31,400 apparently in the year ending 2021).
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That is an interesting concept certainly.
An individuals salary should provide more than other workers joint household income added together.
Or are you implying all nurses only expect one person in the house to be working?
Straight from starting out of college into their first job?
I doubt you could sell that concept to other households with two earning just to make ends meet.
 
travellor said:
Or are you implying all nurses only expect one person in the house to be working?
Straight from starting out of college into their first job?
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I consider it normal for people to live on their own, and I consider nursing to be a skilled job (now always needing a degree, I think). I think no nurses (even those living on their own, just after leaving college) should feel the need to use a food bank, for example, and I think it's a scandal that they do. (I think it's a scandal that we need food banks at all but that's obviously a broader consideration.)

Exactly where they ought to fit on the scale of incomes I don't know. It seems obvious to me that a less unequal society would be preferable so I'm all in favour of redistribution through taxation.
 
I've spent my whole life being relatively skint one way or the other - I just cope with it. Surely everyone in the world must know that if you really truly need a 10% rise to manage, you automatically ask for quite a bit more, to give space for negotiation?
 
Bruce Stephens said:
I consider it normal for people to live on their own, and I consider nursing to be a skilled job (now always needing a degree, I think). I think no nurses (even those living on their own, just after leaving college) should feel the need to use a food bank, for example, and I think it's a scandal that they do. (I think it's a scandal that we need food banks at all but that's obviously a broader consideration.)

Exactly where they ought to fit on the scale of incomes I don't know. It seems obvious to me that a less unequal society would be preferable so I'm all in favour of redistribution through taxation.
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So you believe the average person lives on their own?
I suspect it that was true the human race may not last more than one generation.

And you believe in paying by qualifications.
Skilled workers shouldn't need a food bank?
Or just skilled nurses?

Unskilled workers though?
Nurses with degrees shouldn't?
Nurses without degrees?
Vocational training is not on parity?

Or are you suggesting every single member of the UK should be on figure of £31,400 disposable income, regardless of status, education, qualifications, or even working or not?
Couples should have £62,800?
Or do you believe some parts of society aren't equal to nurses?
 
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travellor said:
So you believe the average person lives on their own?
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No! But I think it's not that unusual that such people should be regarded as bizarre anomalies.

Families and households in the UK - Office for National Statistics

Trends in living arrangements including families (with and without dependent children), people living alone and people in shared accommodation, broken down by size and type of household.
www.ons.gov.uk

Number of households is 28.1 million, 3.6 million cohabiting and 12.7 million in registered partnerships. So about 11.8 million in single households (3.0 million a lone parent families). So a minority, but a significant minority.
travellor said:
Or are you suggesting every single member of the UK should be on figure of £31,400 disposable income, regardless of status, education, qualifications, or even working or not?
Couples should have £62,800?
Or do you believe some parts of society aren't equal to nurses?
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I don't have any idea of how the economy should be organised. I think nurses have a good case that (like HGV drivers not so long ago) there are significant problems in recruiting and retaining them, and an obvious Conservative solution would be to increase their wages.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1590733724487852032
 
Bruce Stephens said:
No! But I think it's not that unusual that such people should be regarded as bizarre anomalies.

Families and households in the UK - Office for National Statistics

Trends in living arrangements including families (with and without dependent children), people living alone and people in shared accommodation, broken down by size and type of household.
www.ons.gov.uk

Number of households is 28.1 million, 3.6 million cohabiting and 12.7 million in registered partnerships. So about 11.8 million in single households (3.0 million a lone parent families). So a minority, but a significant minority.

I don't have any idea of how the economy should be organised. I think nurses have a good case that (like HGV drivers not so long ago) there are significant problems in recruiting and retaining them, and an obvious Conservative solution would be to increase their wages.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1590733724487852032
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Public statistics don't seem to agree.
The register is in public domain.

"There are 704,520 Nurses on the permanent NMC register in the UK as of March 2022.This is up from 681,525 the previous year. So, there's a 3.37% increase in Registered Nurses year-on-year for 2022. The total number of people on the NMC permanent register is 758,303. This includes Nurses, Midwives, and Nursing Associates. This is up from 731,900 the previous year."

Now, I'm not really fussed about strikes either way, everyone has the right to withhold labour, but I am worried about all the misinformation out out to justify it, when it's now to easy to check the real facts.
 
To all the share the wealth solutions.


What is the criteria for taking money off the wealthy.
Is it just how rich you are?
Is it "family money"?
Is it a tax on work ethics?
Intelligence?

So we want to pay more to those that work hard, or have degrees, but only to a point?
If you earn "too" much, the state should take it and pay it to those who haven't quite achieved the same?

Because I'm watching question time.
Theodoros "Theo" Paphitis.
£290 million apparently.
He started work opening a tuck shop at school, and his first job was as a tea boy/filing clerk.
With no real qualifications.
 
Amity Island said:
It's an interesting topic, certainly.

For me it's not about the wealthy or the rich, or taking from those that do well (although to some people this is their position). Its purely about peoples value in what they do.

Is washing and dressing a resident/patient any less valuable than changing a tyre on a car, than writing a prescription out, than cooking a meal for someone?

It would be interesting to see what would happen if everyone was paid the same for working. Would everyone pick the "easy" options like apparently working in a carehome? Or would they still prefer to go to university or study to do something they have a particular interest in? Even if it means they are paid the same as everyone else. Surely at the end of the day, life is not about how much you can earn (up to a point of living comfortably), it's about finding a vocation or job that suits you and you enjoy (as much as anyone can enjoy working lol).

One could easily argue that it's those who do the menial jobs, the ones most wouldn't want to do that should be paid the most?
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This is very true, and if we stop valuing those roles and no one chooses to do them because they cant support themselves or their family then we will all realise the true value when there is no one around to care for people.
 
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