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Newcastle Diet - Lets Go!!!

dannybgoode said:
That makes sense. I'm seeing the DS consultant next week and have a bank of questions that surround diet, other factors that drive T2 etc.

I may still fall within the diet category for some reason or another so it's good to have all the information I can - thank you for responding 🙂
Click to expand...

Be interested to see what they say, worst case you could try the diet for 2 weeks and see if it reduces your fasting levels (they're supposed to return to normal or close to it by the end of week 2) and if nothing else you'd lose a few pounds.
 
CurlyWurly said:
Be interested to see what they say, worst case you could try the diet for 2 weeks and see if it reduces your fasting levels (they're supposed to return to normal or close to it by the end of week 2) and if nothing else you'd lose a few pounds.
Click to expand...
That's why I went for my real food Newcastle diet. The GP said I MUST take metformin AT ONCE to get my levels down as they were off the scale. I did not want to take metformin and I wanted to see to if I could prove her wrong.
 
CurlyWurly said:
Be interested to see what they say, worst case you could try the diet for 2 weeks and see if it reduces your fasting levels (they're supposed to return to normal or close to it by the end of week 2) and if nothing else you'd lose a few pounds.
Click to expand...
Well this whole topic has got me very interested and I am currently experimenting with a few things and so far the results have been surprising and encouraging.

I will post much fuller details once I am more confident of what I am seeing as so far I am even more confused than I was a few days ago but in a positive way 🙂
JITR said:
I did not want to take metformin and I wanted to see to if I could prove her wrong.
Click to expand...
Mainly for medical reasons I have point blank refused metformin which has been supported so I get your stance here!
 
Weirdly the last few days I haven't felt hungry at all in the evening, thought about missing out the final shake and just having some veg but think if you're going down to 550/600 calories it's a bit dangerous for more than a day or 2. Switching it up tonight and having 1 sea bass fillet (150 cals) and some veg, nice to have something other than a shake.

I think your stomach shrinks quite a bit, I just had my dinner which would be 240 calories and I'm absolutely stuffed now. Feel like I've had a monster steak, chips and dessert.

Also been researching some non invasive blood glucose monitors, looks like there's lots of companies developing them but they're all still in early trails mostly with tens of people so I'd guess they're still 2-3 or more years away. Would be a huge win, don't enjoy testing, does hurt a little sometimes and my pen is on the lowest setting and I'm only doing it once a day. This one looks really promising - https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...s-Published-Clinical-Data-on-GWave-Technology. I imagine this will be a big money spinner especially if they can get it to take other body measurements using the same technology.
 
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JITR said:
@CurlyWurly
Have you seen these recent videos of Roy Taylor addressing GPs: this and this? I think they go a long way to answering your questions.

As I understand it, a summary is:
1. Lose sufficient weight [8-20+ kg] to put your diabetes into remission [ideally 'full' remission with HbA1c < 39/42 according American/UK standards]
2. Maintain your new low weight by eating 75% of what you used to eat [Roy Taylor's advice] or following a low calorie diet [David Unwin's diet and the others I mentioned as well as anecdotally numerous members of this forum]
3. If you achieve 2, you may well be able to avoid any recurrence of prediabetes or T2D year after year, but there are not yet any longitudinal lifetime studies to prove or disprove the point.

If you read all of Roy Taylor's papers you will find the one describing how the pancreas was observed to shrink just before the onset of T2D (ref not to hand).

Other than that I suggest you have a good look at the technical article you quoted:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8247294/

One of its conclusions, These data demonstrated that the profound pathophysiological changes underlying reversal of type 2 diabetes do not depend upon a continued hypocaloric state but rather are durable during normal eating.

The $64 question is what does normal eating mean for each of us. My own view is that a diet with plenty of pasta, potatoes and flapjacks is a high risk interpretation. Better to stick with low carb proteins and vegetables with occasional excursions into 'enemy territory' as Harbottle's posts in this and other threads describe.

I don't have a CGM but, if and when I do, I will use it to explore what foods to add to my menu. Meanwhile I plan to take advantage of Jonno Proudfoot's RMR Cookbook to improve my culinary repetoire.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this, I hadn't seen the links but he doesn't really talk about pancreas re-generation. I feel this is the missing piece, people generally understand:
  • Lose weight to reduce your levels (usually to non diabetic levels for most people if they follow his diet)
  • Maintain a strict diet and weigh and monitor your levels regularly
Some people can do the 2nd bit fairly easily and stay on Keto or give up the right foods but I can't see much info on your point on what is normal eating but I guess this will vary for each person. I see some people can handle large amounts of pasta and rice without a spike and others can't. The safest way for most people is to keep it controlled but if you have the odd toast, takeaway, beer etc every so often then you should be fine. Hopefully that's what I'll be able to do longer term.

By the David Unwin diet do you mean this (https://phcuk.org/wp-content/uploads/A_5_page_low_carb_diet_leaflet_Unwin_2021-converted.pdf)? Sounds pretty sensible overall though he suggests to limit cheese which I love.
 
CurlyWurly said:
Thank you for this, I hadn't seen the links but he doesn't really talk about pancreas re-generation.
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He mentions the pancreas just before talking about the Twin Cycle Hpothesis.

For more information here's a list of his department's papers. About a dozen have pancreas in the title, see the ones dated around 2019:

You could start with:
... and then follow its references to find more details/charts: e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30078554/ (load full text).
 
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Week 5 Update
  • Lost 1.8 lbs
  • Total weight lost is 19.7 lbs
  • BMI down to 22.8
  • Average fasting level - 5.1
Fairly standard week with not much going on, continuing to lose weight but at a much slower pace, from what I've read here this seems to be fairly normal that your body adjusts and the weight loss slows down. Still pretty constipated but now taking Fybogel everyday which is helping.

Last couple of days I've been feeling pretty full and only had 2 shakes plus the veg yet my fasting levels in the morning have been ticking up (average of 5.3 this week). Strangely yesterday it was 5.3, I did the school run which is about 4,500 steps and without having eaten anything I'd gone up to 6 whereas the same experiment the previous week saw me go down to 4.7. Not a major difference but slightly annoying at the same time, will have to read a little more on the dawn phenomenon and effects of stress/poor sleep as well as that could be having an impact. Been up at 4am with the kids the last 2 nights for example.

Been reading some keto cookbooks and also got some low carb pasta which I'll test out this week in place of a shake.
 
Thanks for the update @CurlyWurly

Congrats on the weight loss - as you say, it’s not uncommon for the rate of weight loss to vary over time.

Is your programme planned for 12 weeks? You’re nearly half way through!
 
Week 6 Update
  • Lost 2.7 lbs
  • Total weight lost is 22.4 lbs
  • BMI down to 22.4
  • Average fasting level - 5.2 (range of 4.8 to 5.4).
Not really much to report this week, feel like boredom has set in now - I'm definitely milkshaked out. Was nervous to step on the scales this morning as felt a bit bloated throughout the week and thought I might have put on some weight. Today I felt really cold which is supposed to be a side effect of fat no longer keeping you warm, had this a few weeks ago as well.

My fasting levels have ticked up slightly (gone 4.9, 5.1 and 5.2 in the last 3 weeks), just 1 day in the 4's but still in non diabetic range. It just feels good when you get a 4 but I've read it can take months of discipline to bring down those last bits of your fasting level.
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
Thanks for the update @CurlyWurly

Congrats on the weight loss - as you say, it’s not uncommon for the rate of weight loss to vary over time.

Is your programme planned for 12 weeks? You’re nearly half way through!
Click to expand...

Thank you, yeah going to do the full 12 weeks. Looking forward to getting onto some real food in 2 weeks - trying to decide what my first meal should be. It has got a bit boring but overall it's not too bad, I'm glad it's winter when not much else is going on. Think it would be a lot harder in the summer when I'm generally out and about a bit more.
 
Week 7 Update
  • Lost 3.5 lbs
  • Total weight lost is 25.9 lbs
  • BMI down to 21.9
  • Average fasting level - 5.1 (range of 4.6 to 5.6)
Interestingly my weight loss has ramped up after a couple of smaller weeks, I normally weight myself twice when I get up on Mondays to make sure it's accurate. Was a bit annoyed as the first time it only showed 0.9lbs lost and I really wanted to get below 150 lbs (I was 151.5 lbs last week) so tried again and first time it's been different in all 7 weeks.

Fasting levels now pretty stable, they'd ticked up slightly from 4.9 to 5.2 over the last couple of weeks so seems I'm now settling around 5.1 which is good considering my blood test last summer showed 8.7.

I tried out some low carb pasta from Kaizen, had to order it via iherb as it's a US company. It's also pretty pricey but 1 portion only has 6 grams of carbs and it spiked me by 0.4 after 2 hours. I also had a chicken wrap using delhi kitchen carb lite wraps which are 14.6 grams of carbs per wrap. That spiked me by 1.5 after 2 hours.

Other than that same old shakes and making sure I go for a walk each day, looking forward to being able to eat a normal evening meal from next week.
 
CurlyWurly said:
Week 7 Update
  • Lost 3.5 lbs
  • Total weight lost is 25.9 lbs
  • BMI down to 21.9
  • Average fasting level - 5.1 (range of 4.6 to 5.6)
Interestingly my weight loss has ramped up after a couple of smaller weeks, I normally weight myself twice when I get up on Mondays to make sure it's accurate. Was a bit annoyed as the first time it only showed 0.9lbs lost and I really wanted to get below 150 lbs (I was 151.5 lbs last week) so tried again and first time it's been different in all 7 weeks.

Fasting levels now pretty stable, they'd ticked up slightly from 4.9 to 5.2 over the last couple of weeks so seems I'm now settling around 5.1 which is good considering my blood test last summer showed 8.7.

I tried out some low carb pasta from Kaizen, had to order it via iherb as it's a US company. It's also pretty pricey but 1 portion only has 6 grams of carbs and it spiked me by 0.4 after 2 hours. I also had a chicken wrap using delhi kitchen carb lite wraps which are 14.6 grams of carbs per wrap. That spiked me by 1.5 after 2 hours.

Other than that same old shakes and making sure I go for a walk each day, looking forward to being able to eat a normal evening meal from next week.
Click to expand...
Some low carb pastas are available from Holland and Barret, edamame bean or black bean fettucine, spaghetti or noodles, only 15g carbs per 100g dry weight, a 25g dry weight portion is plenty sufficient. You can buy similar from Amazon or sometimes in ALDI, I had some from there last week.
 
I was really low calorie and one shake a day, fasting 20 hours a day - really low intake I don't think I should admit to on the forum, but my HbA1c was higher than for the last 7 years on low carb after just over 2 months, I think it was.
I did lose weight, but I suspect that the carbs in the shakes were just too easy to absorb and so I was spiking and staying high.
I have had real trouble getting back into the two meals a day at 12 hourly intervals routine I was on, as I feel that I am gaining weight on that regime now. Once the weather improves I will do more walking. I have been getting very cold and wet and my health has taken a dive over the last few days. I have had to admit that my temperature is higher than it should be, the cough is not just a bit of a cold - with the 20/20 vision of hindsight I really ought have had that pneumonia jab.
Ah well - I'm sure a few days in bed will sort it out.
Always look on the bright side....
 
Leadinglights said:
Some low carb pastas are available from Holland and Barret, edamame bean or black bean fettucine, spaghetti or noodles, only 15g carbs per 100g dry weight, a 25g dry weight portion is plenty sufficient. You can buy similar from Amazon or sometimes in ALDI, I had some from there last week.
Click to expand...

I second that! I use those low carb pastas and they are fine.
I do use the Konjac based noodles as well, which are good when there's a sauce.
In fact, I switched from egg noodles back to Konjac as a I preferred them (I found egg noodles don't cause me an issue.)
 
CurlyWurly said:
Week 7 Update
  • Lost 3.5 lbs
  • Total weight lost is 25.9 lbs
  • BMI down to 21.9
  • Average fasting level - 5.1 (range of 4.6 to 5.6)
Interestingly my weight loss has ramped up after a couple of smaller weeks, I normally weight myself twice when I get up on Mondays to make sure it's accurate. Was a bit annoyed as the first time it only showed 0.9lbs lost and I really wanted to get below 150 lbs (I was 151.5 lbs last week) so tried again and first time it's been different in all 7 weeks.

Fasting levels now pretty stable, they'd ticked up slightly from 4.9 to 5.2 over the last couple of weeks so seems I'm now settling around 5.1 which is good considering my blood test last summer showed 8.7.

I tried out some low carb pasta from Kaizen, had to order it via iherb as it's a US company. It's also pretty pricey but 1 portion only has 6 grams of carbs and it spiked me by 0.4 after 2 hours. I also had a chicken wrap using delhi kitchen carb lite wraps which are 14.6 grams of carbs per wrap. That spiked me by 1.5 after 2 hours.

Other than that same old shakes and making sure I go for a walk each day, looking forward to being able to eat a normal evening meal from next week.
Click to expand...
Well done @CurlyWurly it sounds like you are very much on track / broken the back of it
 
Drummer said:
I was really low calorie and one shake a day, fasting 20 hours a day - really low intake I don't think I should admit to on the forum, but my HbA1c was higher than for the last 7 years on low carb after just over 2 months, I think it was.
I did lose weight, but I suspect that the carbs in the shakes were just too easy to absorb and so I was spiking and staying high.
I have had real trouble getting back into the two meals a day at 12 hourly intervals routine I was on, as I feel that I am gaining weight on that regime now. Once the weather improves I will do more walking. I have been getting very cold and wet and my health has taken a dive over the last few days. I have had to admit that my temperature is higher than it should be, the cough is not just a bit of a cold - with the 20/20 vision of hindsight I really ought have had that pneumonia jab.
Ah well - I'm sure a few days in bed will sort it out.
Always look on the bright side....
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear you are picking up 'flu. I'm trying to shake it off, day 9 now. I noticed my fasting bloods were higher during the illness. I wondered if illness has an effect. Hope you get well soon.
 
No alcohol or refined carbs for 34 days. The first two weeks I had a serious attempt at less than 1200 calories (soups + salads), then had a go at healthy eating + exercise. This didn't really work out as exercise resulted in compensatory eating and I was kicked out of keto / gluconeogenesis.

Fasting bloods were back to being high on week 3, so I used a bit more will power on time restricted eating - nothing between 7pm and 1pm to no effect. Horrible 'flu started in week 5 (ongoing) and fasting became less of a priority.

Fasting bloods depressingly high week 5 and 6 despite weight reducing. I have now stopped measurement first thing in the morning when I was getting 7.3 - 7.5. I now wait till before I eat at lunch time when I get 5.3 - 5.4

So I have concluded neither 'a few weeks fasting to reset' or calorie restriction / time restricted eating worked on blood sugars. Next week I have 10 hours travel to and from my new job, so I'll put the thing on hold. Hopefully I won't resume drinking alcohol though, so some success

Weight Kg

1738229606985.png
Fasting Bloods
1738229654873.png
 
Leadinglights said:
Some low carb pastas are available from Holland and Barret, edamame bean or black bean fettucine, spaghetti or noodles, only 15g carbs per 100g dry weight, a 25g dry weight portion is plenty sufficient. You can buy similar from Amazon or sometimes in ALDI, I had some from there last week.
Click to expand...
I've got both of those but not tried them yet, I liked the sound of the Kaizen ones as they're really similar to real pasta. I'd say it tastes more like wholemeal pasta. I'll probably work my way through all the different brands in time and see what works.

I read somewhere else that Aldi had them in stock but they didn't have any in my local place.
 
Weekender said:
No alcohol or refined carbs for 34 days. The first two weeks I had a serious attempt at less than 1200 calories (soups + salads), then had a go at healthy eating + exercise. This didn't really work out as exercise resulted in compensatory eating and I was kicked out of keto / gluconeogenesis.

Fasting bloods were back to being high on week 3, so I used a bit more will power on time restricted eating - nothing between 7pm and 1pm to no effect. Horrible 'flu started in week 5 (ongoing) and fasting became less of a priority.

Fasting bloods depressingly high week 5 and 6 despite weight reducing. I have now stopped measurement first thing in the morning when I was getting 7.3 - 7.5. I now wait till before I eat at lunch time when I get 5.3 - 5.4

So I have concluded neither 'a few weeks fasting to reset' or calorie restriction / time restricted eating worked on blood sugars. Next week I have 10 hours travel to and from my new job, so I'll put the thing on hold. Hopefully I won't resume drinking alcohol though, so some success

Weight Kg

View attachment 33771
Fasting Bloods
View attachment 33772
Click to expand...

That's odd, with your weight going down and no refined carbs I'd expect the fasting levels to go down as well. Makes sense to wait until lunch time, it might be the dawn phenomenon you mentioned to me but at least they're going down to a good level at lunch. I guess you'd need a CGM to truly tell, shame they're so expensive.
 
JITR said:
@CurlyWurly
Have you seen these recent videos of Roy Taylor addressing GPs: this and this? I think they go a long way to answering your questions.

As I understand it, a summary is:
1. Lose sufficient weight [8-20+ kg] to put your diabetes into remission [ideally 'full' remission with HbA1c < 39/42 according American/UK standards]
2. Maintain your new low weight by eating 75% of what you used to eat [Roy Taylor's advice] or following a low calorie diet [David Unwin's diet and the others I mentioned as well as anecdotally numerous members of this forum]
3. If you achieve 2, you may well be able to avoid any recurrence of prediabetes or T2D year after year, but there are not yet any longitudinal lifetime studies to prove or disprove the point.

If you read all of Roy Taylor's papers you will find the one describing how the pancreas was observed to shrink just before the onset of T2D (ref not to hand).

Other than that I suggest you have a good look at the technical article you quoted:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8247294/

One of its conclusions, These data demonstrated that the profound pathophysiological changes underlying reversal of type 2 diabetes do not depend upon a continued hypocaloric state but rather are durable during normal eating.

The $64 question is what does normal eating mean for each of us. My own view is that a diet with plenty of pasta, potatoes and flapjacks is a high risk interpretation. Better to stick with low carb proteins and vegetables with occasional excursions into 'enemy territory' as Harbottle's posts in this and other threads describe.

I don't have a CGM but, if and when I do, I will use it to explore what foods to add to my menu. Meanwhile I plan to take advantage of Jonno Proudfoot's RMR Cookbook to improve my culinary repetoire.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all this info and sorry for the slow response. I did some more digging and also found the press articles on it when the study was released. This is the article I read - https://tonykirby.com/diabetes/stud...emission-can-restore-pancreas-size-and-shape/

It sounds like your pancreas stays as is but if you remain in remission then it starts to grow at 5 months and is almost back at full size after 2 years so kind of correlates with the quote you posted about the need to maintain things for a long time and make it a way of life. I'm guessing if you maintain it for 2 years then it's unlikely you'd want to test how well your pancreas behaves anyway.

I've got some of the RMR books now and starting to think about what my diet will look like now I've almost finished this diet.
 
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