Newcastle Diet - Lets Go!!!

[CurlyWurly]

Just starting week 3 of the Newcastle diet and thought I'd post some updates here.

Background
Did the ZOE test out of curiosity and noticed my levels were high and the results said I had poor blood glucose control but didn't think much of it. Then went for a general medical check for my 40th and requested one. Hba1c came back as 76, the DR's were a bit confused as I'm only 40 and although could do with losing a few lbs not massive so they kept ordering repeat tests - ended up having three Hba1c tests in 3 weeks with results of 76, 74 and 73 and then they said they'd just monitor it. Got called in for another one at the beginning of November which was down to 50. I'd lost about half a stone in that time just through diet and watching carbs but was starting to gain it back again. I'd been prescribed slow release metformin (500mg per day) and statins due to high cholesterol but had only been taking them for a week before the latest test.

Newcastle Diet
Had heard about it and read Roy Taylors book on how to reverse type 2, figured I'd have some treats before starting and enjoy Christmas then one night just thought there's no point in waiting and ordered up my meal replacement shakes. That was on a Sunday night, they didn't arrived till Wednesday so did the first 2 days just on some low calorie supermarket meals. It's been OK so far, first 3 days were torture then it settled down but still feel hungry just before evening shake some days. Had some major constipation today and ordered up a treatments for it which should arrive tomorrow. Shakes don't taste too bad but pretty boring.

Current Status
DR's still aren't sure I have type 2 (they're 95% certain, apparently I had an hba1c in 2018 or 19 which was normal so they're surprised why it's suddenly gone up so high) so have a c peptide, Hba1c and fasting glucose test tomorrow morning, will be interesting to see my results.

Was 180.7 lbs in August at time of first Hba1c tests then before starting the diet I was 173 lbs In week 1 I lost 6.2lbs but in week 2 I only lost 2lbs which was a bit odd. I did average 10K steps a day in week 2 and I usually average around 7k, I've read your body can shut down and preserve your fat if you're doing more exercise than it expects, I also didn't go to the toilet for 3 days before today's weigh in. I also ate a fair bit of veg in week 2 but I doubt it went over 200 calories a day, I did check the packs for totals but also ate the odd carrot and cherry tomato. Targeting weight loss of around 33lbs taking me to 147lbs but I'll be happy around 150lbs.

I record my level each morning first thing, since starting it's been 7.7, 4.7, 5.5, 5.5, 5.8, 6.5, 6.1, 6.3, 5.4, 5.6, 4.9, 5.1. I have a theory that my body dipped as all the carbs and stuff left my body then rebounded when I got those 6 readings and is now starting to settle down but I'll see how I go. Either way last few days have been good and that's been after having around 65grams of carbs from the shakes and I'd guess another 5-10 from the veg.

Will keep this thread updated as I go.

 

[Lucyr]

so have a c peptide, Hba1c and fasting glucose test tomorrow morning, will be interesting to see my results

What instructions have you had for what and when to eat before the cpeptide? If you’re on a very low calorie diet and have normal blood sugar at the time of the test when the dr is expecting a high blood sugar then the test may be pointless, so it’s important to check and follow the instructions for what to eat before the test.

 

[CurlyWurly]

What instructions have you had for what and when to eat before the cpeptide? If you’re on a very low calorie diet and have normal blood sugar at the time of the test when the dr is expecting a high blood sugar then the test may be pointless, so it’s important to check and follow the instructions for what to eat before the test.

I've been advised to fast beforehand and it's at 9AM so works out perfectly.

 

[Leadinglights]

I've been advised to fast beforehand and it's at 9AM so works out perfectly.

The test can be either done fasting or stimulated where you eat a carby meal so the insulin response reflects what would normally happen.
The range for the result will be different for unstimulated compared to stimulated.

 

[CurlyWurly]

The test can be either done fasting or stimulated where you eat a carby meal so the insulin response reflects what would normally happen.
The range for the result will be different for unstimulated compared to stimulated.

Would be interesting to do a stimulated one as well if I get the chance. Keen to see these results as my last fasting blood glucose one in August was 8.7, my fasting test at home before I left was 5.3.

 

[Weekender]

Morning all. Back in May 2021 I did the Newcastle diet and went from 98 to 85kg and Fasting Bloods from 10.3 to 5.2.
2024 involved binge drinking lots of beer and eating bread and potatoes etc.
I'm now 92kg.
I just (Dec 2024) checked my fasting blood sugar for the last three days and the average is 7 so I'm back in the pre-diabetes range.
I have been feeling a bit lethargic, so it's wake up time.
I start work in January (involving regular travel to Belgium)
I'm considering going for a 'hard reset' and go back on the 800 calories shakes regime. Not looking forward to the hard first two weeks and constipation though.
I am a bit thrown of course as both OptiFast and Exante that I used before, that were recommended by the Newcastle University booklet are no longer trading. I've looked at a few products (Sainsbury's) but they all require mixing with milk.
Any suggestions?
Or do I try a more moderate (no alcohol, less carbs) approach?

 

[JITR]

Any suggestions?
Or do I try a more moderate (no alcohol, less carbs) approach?

I did my own real food version of the Newcastle Diet and lost 22 kg but I would not do it again. To be specific I'd go for one of the following three options or whatever moderate approach you have in mind.

What I might well do is go for Soups and Shakes for 2 - 4 weeks to get my excess liver fat down by 50-75%. Then switch to one of these:

- Dr David Unwin's diet sheet
- What should we eat? (see the section on Weight Loss - and apply to maintenance)
- Real Meal Revolution (because the books are great for low carb as well as keto)
- Whatever else seemed sensible at the time

Combined with some TRE/eTRE time restricted eating.

Ask here what NHS Pathway shakes are generally available. Keep well hydrated from day zero. Top up with plenty of green veg with lots of fibre as suggested for the Newcastle Diet.

 

[pjgtech]

You can get the total diet replacement meals from a few companies, including Shake that Weight and Altra Life.
The TDR meals all have around 200cals and all contain about 20 nutrients and vitamins.
The supermarket ones are not "proper" TDR meals, so can contains all sorts?
As above, drink lots of water too.
Cheers

 

[Weekender]

I did my own real food version of the Newcastle Diet and lost 22 kg but I would not do it again. To be specific I'd go for one of the following three options or whatever moderate approach you have in mind.

What I might well do is go for Soups and Shakes for 2 - 4 weeks to get my excess liver fat down by 50-75%. Then switch to one of these:

- Dr David Unwin's diet sheet
- What should we eat? (see the section on Weight Loss - and apply to maintenance)
- Real Meal Revolution (because the books are great for low carb as well as keto)
- Whatever else seemed sensible at the time

Combined with some TRE/eTRE time restricted eating.

Ask here what NHS Pathway shakes are generally available. Keep well hydrated from day zero. Top up with plenty of green veg with lots of fibre as suggested for the Newcastle Diet.

Thanks @JITR
I think you are right, I'm going to have to take the plunge and fast for a few weeks.
Not looking forward to it, I'll build up the determination.
I have to stop conning myself that exercise and moderation will shift the visceral fat
Ho Hum

 

[Weekender]

You can get the total diet replacement meals from a few companies, including Shake that Weight and Altra Life.
The TDR meals all have around 200cals and all contain about 20 nutrients and vitamins.
The supermarket ones are not "proper" TDR meals, so can contains all sorts?
As above, drink lots of water too.
Cheers

Thanks @pjgtech that's very helpful, I will look these brands up

 

[Leadinglights]

The most critical thing is you establish a long term better way of eating that is enjoyable and therefore sustainable for life not a quick fix that you then forget about and end up where you started or worse.
Check out the Freshwell approach for some ideas for a long term new way of eating. https://lowcarbfreshwell.com/

 

[Weekender]

The most critical thing is you establish a long term better way of eating that is enjoyable and therefore sustainable for life not a quick fix that you then forget about and end up where you started or worse.
Check out the Freshwell approach for some ideas for a long term new way of eating. https://lowcarbfreshwell.com/

@Leadinglights That would be ideal. It's alcohol that is my Achilles heel. I need to address that if I'm to stand a chance with a sustainable diet. I'm on it

 

[Drummer]

Thanks @JITR
I think you are right, I'm going to have to take the plunge and fast for a few weeks.
Not looking forward to it, I'll build up the determination.
I have to stop conning myself that exercise and moderation will shift the visceral fat
Ho Hum

I did a couple of months on shakes and small meals and my HbA1c was higher than I expected - I think that the carbs in the shakes are too easily accessible and cause spikes.
After the test I gave up on the shakes and I did feel better eating more normally (for me) but I am having real trouble re-establishing my former routine of two meals a day which kept me at the top end of normal for years, and feeling very fit.
Since the shakes diet I have had one cold after another, coughing and spluttering, but I had covid numerous times - maybe 5, and did not feel as bad. I had humorous side effects such as taste distortion, but it was not serious. I had to be very firm with myself about going out. We lost our bass player to Covid so I know it is a very varied and can be serious illness - I am dangerous when bored.
If you are going to change your diet, I suggest going to something that will, hopefully, be sustainable long term and establish that first - if might be all you need and you will not then be going against habit to make essential changer later.
These days I get up and tell myself to eat and then it is 'oups, not again' at 4 in the afternoon.

 

[JITR]

The most critical thing is you establish a long term better way of eating that is enjoyable and therefore sustainable for life

As the learned judge said, it always pays to spell out the obvious.

... not a quick fix that you then forget about and end up where you started or worse.

Some things are better left unsaid. There may be good reasons for adopting a lower calorie diet for few weeks before switching to a sustainable way of eating for the long term.

Check out the Freshwell approach for some ideas for a long term new way of eating. https://lowcarbfreshwell.com/

I did. The science page says this:
In 2014, some research was undertaken, (the DIRECT study), which showed that people who followed a rapid weight loss regime based on this low carbohydrate/high fat way of eating not only lost weight fast, but in doing so, cleared fat out of their pancreas and livers and were able to actually put their type 2 Diabetes into remission. A number of the study participants were able to stop their diabetes and blood pressure medication as a result of their weight loss and healthier lifestyle and the majority of them managed to keep the weight off longer term as well.

That statement is problematic.

The DiRECT study [managed programme]
This was a follow up to the Counterpoint study, c.2008, by Prof Roy Taylor and his team at Newcastle University. The Counterpoint study showed many overweight people could put their T2D into remission by losing around 15 kg or more following a very low calorie diet [not a low carbohydrate/high fat way of eating] . The aim of DiRECT was to demonstrate that shakes like those used in the Counterpoint clinical trial would work in a managed programme delivered through primary care. This led to the current NHS Pathway to Remission which aims to treat 20,000 people a year. The latest results show 50% of those losing 15-20 kg achieve remission, and 55% of those losing more than 22 kg. I do not know what guidance on maintaining weight loss is provided.

The CounterPoint study [clinical trial]
Vounteers were required to stop medication on day 1 of the trial, to avoid hypos.

Key findings of the clinical trial included:
- Some volunteers were 'responders', typically the recently dagnosed; 'non-responders' tended to have been diagnosed several years ago.
- Blood glucose levels came down to normal levels in 7 days (responders)
- Excess liver fat reduced by about 30% per week (i.e. week zero, baseline, =>100%; week 1, 70%; week 2, 50%; week 3, 35%; week 4. 25%)
- Liver insulin resistance was much reduced after one week.
- After three months beta cells in the pancreas were waking up and starting to produce insulin again.
- Most responders achieved remission (<= 42 mmol/mol)

The CounterPoint study [self managed weight loss]
When the CounterPoint results were published, the Newcastle team received over a thousand emails from people who wanted to put their T2D into remission. Prof Taylor recommended a 'portion controlled diet' not the shakes [and not a low calorie high fat diet]. Subsequently 77 people reported back on their success in sufficient detail to be included as subject in a published paper.

[The CounterPoint study, rather than DiRECT is relevant to Freshwell's target group, people who want to manage their T2D and pre-D for themselves.]

Optimum weight loss and maintenance strategies
After Counterpoint Prof Taylor called for research into optimum weight loss and maintenance strategies. It may well be low calorie/high fat strategies, possibly coupled with some form of Time Restricted Eating, are one such group. To my knowledge there has been no such research to date. However the latest dietary European and American advice for diabetics are probably good enough for distilling into media we can all understand.

[Have Freshwell collated any evidence to show their low carb/high fat approach is optimum in any sense?]

DiRECT [weight maintenance]
Recently published results show only 25% or so of participants [not the majority] maintained their lower weight/state of remission after 5 years. Prof Taylor has reported a failure in primary care support as envisaged at the outset.

Self managed remission and weight maintenance
Self managed loss of 15kg plus 7 kg is hardly an experience I will ever forget.

[Nor do I intend to end up where 'I started or worse'. Time will tell as it will for all of us who have got their numbers back to normal or near normal]

 

[CurlyWurly]

Week 3 Update

• Lost 5.8lbs
• Total weight lost is 14lbs
• BMI down to 23.7
• Average fasting level (I measure once a day as soon as I'm up) - 5.4. I had a 5.9 and a 6 which skewed it slightly, others were low 5's and a couple of high 4's

Mixed week with Christmas and other social events going on. Skipped the morning shake twice for a Christmas dinner but just had meat and veg and a small amount of potatoes but no gravy or sides. Tried to get out for more walks but had a couple of days where I didn't leave the house. Also ended up having one meal at Zizzi, chicken salad with parma ham which is 400 calories, was pretty nice and skipped the evening shake to compensate.

Pretty happy with the weight loss, I think some of this weeks loss was actually in week 2 but I was pretty constipated then. Went 5 days without going this week so took some tablets which have helped. Hoping to lose another 10-15lbs over the next few weeks.

Shakes are definitely getting boring, bought some Warburtons Danish bread which is 12grams of carbs per slice and had 2 toast and smoked salmon for breakfast. Carb amounts are the same as the shakes but far less sugar like this. Will probably start to add in a bit more toast, eggs, yoghurt type breakfasts to stave off the shake boredom. Long term I'll likely have to give up break but figure if the carbs are the same as the shake it's not doing much harm. Overall I'm having 75-85 grams of carbs a day and fasting levels are decent for 3 weeks in.

Also had the results of my fasting blood test which was 5.4, still waiting on the c peptide one.

 

[CurlyWurly]

Morning all. Back in May 2021 I did the Newcastle diet and went from 98 to 85kg and Fasting Bloods from 10.3 to 5.2.
2024 involved binge drinking lots of beer and eating bread and potatoes etc.
I'm now 92kg.
I just (Dec 2024) checked my fasting blood sugar for the last three days and the average is 7 so I'm back in the pre-diabetes range.
I have been feeling a bit lethargic, so it's wake up time.
I start work in January (involving regular travel to Belgium)
I'm considering going for a 'hard reset' and go back on the 800 calories shakes regime. Not looking forward to the hard first two weeks and constipation though.
I am a bit thrown of course as both OptiFast and Exante that I used before, that were recommended by the Newcastle University booklet are no longer trading. I've looked at a few products (Sainsbury's) but they all require mixing with milk.
Any suggestions?
Or do I try a more moderate (no alcohol, less carbs) approach?

I actually read your whole thread when looking into the Newcastle diet. At least you've kept some of the weight off and know the cause. Maybe as another poster said do it for 4 weeks then get your regular diet back in shape - I'm guessing you get 60-70% of the weight loss in the first few weeks.

I got my shakes from Keediet but they're mixed with skimmed milk. You can mix them with water but then they're usually around 125 calories each instead of 200. The carb content seems a bit high with them at around 23/24 grams and they also have about the same amount of sugar. The book says not too worry about the sugar content but I think you might get more benefit having an omlette or something instead of 1 of the shakes a day. Tesco also do them (called Tesco slim) but they only have vanilla and chocolate.

 

[CurlyWurly]

I did my own real food version of the Newcastle Diet and lost 22 kg but I would not do it again. To be specific I'd go for one of the following three options or whatever moderate approach you have in mind.

What I might well do is go for Soups and Shakes for 2 - 4 weeks to get my excess liver fat down by 50-75%. Then switch to one of these:

- Dr David Unwin's diet sheet
- What should we eat? (see the section on Weight Loss - and apply to maintenance)
- Real Meal Revolution (because the books are great for low carb as well as keto)
- Whatever else seemed sensible at the time

Combined with some TRE/eTRE time restricted eating.

Ask here what NHS Pathway shakes are generally available. Keep well hydrated from day zero. Top up with plenty of green veg with lots of fibre as suggested for the Newcastle Diet.

Thanks for these, bought all 3 real meal revolution books and also another keto one that gets good reviews (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0857838725?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title). Can get them all pretty cheap second hand, quite like reading all the science behind it though with 2 young kids might take me a while.

 

[CurlyWurly]

Looks like Chinese is off the menu, had a small plate of 1 spring roll, 2 chicken balls (with half the batter removed), 2 prawn crackers and couple of spoons of chow mein and rice. Didn't measure before but 2 hours later was 8.8. Then went for a 20 minute walk and after 3 hours I'd gone back to 3.9 (did 3 strips using same fingerprick as it seemed a bit low but they were all 3.8 or 3.9). Then after nearly 4 hours it had gone back to 4.9. Bizarrely this morning it was 5.7 (though I did have to get up at 5 to sort the kids) and just now without eating anything yet is 5.2.

 

[JITR]

@Leadinglights

The most critical thing is you establish a long term better way of eating that is enjoyable and therefore sustainable for life not a quick fix that you then forget about and end up where you started or worse.
Check out the Freshwell approach for some ideas for a long term new way of eating. https://lowcarbfreshwell.com/

I have changed my mind. I now think the 'quick fix' you had in mind was about 'yo yo' dieting.

After the results of the CounterPoint study were released about 15 years ago, Prof. Roy Taylor advised the many who wanted to put their T2D into remission for themselves to follow a portion controlled diet. Soups and shakes were only for professionally supervised medical programmes.

Today Red, Amber and Green dietary food lists provide guidance for portion control.
Examples: Freshwell, Real Meal Revolution, DiaTribe

Happy New Year

 

[beating_my_betes]

After Counterpoint Prof Taylor called for research into optimum weight loss and maintenance strategies.

Optimum for whom and for when?

Today Red, Amber and Green dietary food lists provide guidance for portion control.
Examples: Freshwell, Real Meal Revolution, DiaTribe

Only the RMR link seems to work. But they seem to have fallen for the same nonsense of banning the foods that make the 'Red' list. There's not a thing on that list that is inherently problematic for diabetics or those who are looking to lose weight. I'd argue that it's such arbitrary judments increase the chances of failure on any diet. More over, any list that seeks to provide portion control should easily be able to accommodate them.