New NHS diet

[Pauldogs_0]

I've just been reading about a new diet based on soups and shakes that are claimed to put type 2 diabetes into remission. Has anyone tried this and what was the result? I ask this because I've tried similar ways to loose weight in the past and found them to be nothing more than a waste of time and money. I told my then doctor that I was trying them and he said leave them alone, they are nothing more than a money maker for the makers of these things.

However, that was a few years ago. So I'm wondering have things changed? Does this new diet and exercise program now work? How do I go about signing up to it and do I need to see my doctor first?

 

[Totalwar]

This diet been around for years and it works.What is new is that the one I heard about before you only had a few years after you were diagnosed to work and go into remission.But 5000 places is so small when there millions with type two diabetes.I give this a go if only there was enough places.

 

[DaveB]

I'm sure this 800 calorie diet works but is not optimum and the science behind it is shaky. The better approach is to just reduce the Carbs and have enough Fats and Protein to keep you feeling full. Measuring Calories is not a useful approach - it's not a food group and the body metabolises each food group in different ways hence Calories are not as useful as measuring Carbs.

 

[trophywench]

I urge you both to Google 'The Newcastle Diet' that Prof Roy Taylor of Newcastle University Med School devised and pioneered. It can and does work for most people who have enough weight to lose in the first place and can also continue to keep it off.

 

[grovesy]

I thought in the follow up less than half kept it off.

 

[Toucan]

As I understand it the 'Newcastle Diet' is very effective in enabling weight loss and in many cases putting Diabetes in remission.
BUT the problem comes with sustainability, as there needs to be a careful transition from shakes and soups back to 'normal' eating, and this is the real learning time for what kind of diet works for the long term.
I'm not sure thus is proven but I would expect a high correlation between those that do this transition well, and those that sustain the weight loss and improved blood glucose levels.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

I did the Newcastle Diet off my own volition back when I was first diagnosed nearly a decade ago.
Worked exactly as it said on the tin, I am still in the non diabetic range, and I eat a normal, healthy, balanced diet.

I took the view, yes, I could change to an alternative diet for life, but to me that would simply be sticking a plaster over the problem. I preferred the view that a solution that meant I just reverted back to a non diabetic lifestyle would work better for me.

 

[Docb]

@travellor, am I right in thinking that the diet led to a significant weight loss, the weight loss corrected your system so that it could cope with the glucose produced in a normal diet and that you have kept your weight down with consequential blood glucose control?

If so, then that is my understanding of how the "Newcastle Diet" is meant to work. If you are not overweight to start with and have diabetes then I am sure I read that this approach was not appropriate. It is also my recollection that the approach was only effective in the long term for those who had your determination, and took steps to make it stick.

Not knocking the diet at all, in fact far from it. It's just that I like to see things put into context so that anybody going down that route understands what it is all about because that way more are likely to succeed.

 

[Eddy Edson]

If you are not overweight to start with and have diabetes then I am sure I read that this approach was not appropriate.

That's certainly not the position taken by this research, in which there is no absolute concept of "overweight", and the thesis is that pretty much all T2D is caused by going over one's "personal fat threshold", which can happen at any BMI. See Taylor's slides here https://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwncla...onancecentre/files/fat-threshholds-slides.pdf for some pics.



The thesis is that getting your weight below your personal threshold will clear fat from liver and pancreas, and reverse your T2D - unless you've had it for long enough for your pancreas to be completely borked.

The thesis may be an overreach, but it is what it is.

 

[Docb]

Thanks for clearing that one up Eddy.

It's all very difficult in trying to get a perspective on what is being said. No question the approach is valid, but sorting out for who and what the targets should be needs thinking about. Doing the easy thing, lumping all T2's into one box, and treating them all the same just does not seem right to me. One thing for sure, if I lost 15kg when my HbA1c peaked, then I would have been classed as emaciated. Maybe the couple of kilos I lost brought me below my personal fat threshold or maybe its the low carb diet, or maybe its the pills, or maybe a combination of all three that got me back so sub diabetic levels.

 

[Eddy Edson]

Thanks for clearing that one up Eddy.

It's all very difficult in trying to get a perspective on what is being said. No question the approach is valid, but sorting out for who and what the targets should be needs thinking about. Doing the easy thing, lumping all T2's into one box, and treating them all the same just does not seem right to me. One thing for sure, if I lost 15kg when my HbA1c peaked, then I would have been classed as emaciated. Maybe the couple of kilos I lost brought me below my personal fat threshold or maybe its the low carb diet, or maybe its the pills, or maybe a combination of all three that got me back so sub diabetic levels.

Yeah, it's hard to believe things are so clear-cut. Presumably there will be some clarification from the follow-on non-obese ReTUNE trial when it finally completes, but in the meantime Taylor added this to his recommendations earlier this year:

An individual target can be agreed on the basis of body weight and is usually 15kg lower than starting weight. Some individuals will have type 2 diabetes with a BMI only just above the normal range, and for them a decrease in weight of 10kg is an appropriate target. For others, a BMI substantially less than that present, can be agreed with the patient as a target.

FWIW, that's consistent with my experience - I had BMI just above 25 at DX and I got to normal BG levels with ~10kg weight loss.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Thanks for clearing that one up Eddy.

It's all very difficult in trying to get a perspective on what is being said. No question the approach is valid, but sorting out for who and what the targets should be needs thinking about. Doing the easy thing, lumping all T2's into one box, and treating them all the same just does not seem right to me. One thing for sure, if I lost 15kg when my HbA1c peaked, then I would have been classed as emaciated. Maybe the couple of kilos I lost brought me below my personal fat threshold or maybe its the low carb diet, or maybe its the pills, or maybe a combination of all three that got me back so sub diabetic levels.

I don't believe any one has attempted to lump all T2's into one box.
I tried it because I couldn't lose anything by doing it.
There was only an upside for me.

The NHS will no doubt use this treatment where it is appropriate to use it, in the same way they prescribe the assortment of medication, such as metformin, insulin, and other drugs as required according to individuals needs.
As Eddy said, there are some very good articles on the results of research already carried out, as above.

 

[Ralph-YK]

The Newcastle Diet

I don't remember for this one specifically. With a lot of these diets, I've heard a large proportion of people who do them, put weight back on afterward. Possibly more than they had to start off with. They then start over.
I've attended a "healthy" eating thing done by NHS. The person who ran it ask people to list all the diets/schemes they knew of. After we got a good list, they asked if people though they worked. Plenty said yes. Then they asked how many people had been on one. Lots said "Oh several, and some more than once!"
Host made the point that this showed they didn't work. And that's how they ended up on this thing. She said you had to work on a non-diet; making life style changes that they could live on.

I've just been reading about a new diet based on soups and shakes that are claimed to put type 2 diabetes into remission.

When I first read this statement I didn't take it to be anything to do with dieting/loosing weight. I starting asking if it was one of those miracles "cures" that I'd heard of. There's plenty of them for various conditions, including diabetes. (One person told me all you needed to do to "cure" diabetes was loose weight!)

[Edited]

 

[Deleted member 21371]

I don't remember for this one specifically. With a lot of these diets, I've heard a large proportion of people who do them, put weight back on afterward. Possibly more than they had to start off with. They then start over.
I've attended a "healthy" eating thing done by NHS. The person who ran it ask people to list all the diets/schemes they knew of. After we got a good list, they asked if people though they worked. Plenty said yes. Then they asked how many people had been on one. Lots said "Oh several, and some more than once!"
Host made the point that this showed they didn't work. And that's how they ended up on this thing. She said you had to work on a non-diet; making life style changes that they could live on.


When I first read this statement I didn't take it to be anything to do with dieting/loosing weight. I starting asking if it was one of those miracles "cures" that I'd heard of. There's plenty of them for various conditions, including diabetes. (One person told me all you needed to do to "cure" diabetes was loose weight!)

[Edited]

It's probably because it's not a "diet" as such, but a now proven treatment for some diabetics, such as myself.

Reversing Type 2 Diabetes | Newcastle Magnetic Resonance Centre | Newcastle University

Reversing Type 2 Diabetes and ongoing remission

www.ncl.ac.uk

 

[nonethewiser]

If so, then that is my understanding of how the "Newcastle Diet" is meant to work. If you are not overweight to start with and have diabetes then I am sure I read that this approach was not appropriate.

You can be thin on outside fat inside, organs swimming in visceral fat, sure read this when reading about Newcastle Diet when first came about.

I thought in the follow up less than half kept it off.

Still great success wouldn't you say.

 

[Ralph-YK]

You can be thin on outside fat inside, organs swimming in visceral fat

I've heard something like this before. Think isn't the same as healthy.

 

[Ditto]

I wouldn't mind having this opportunity but I think my GPs have forgotten I exist. 🙂

 

[Largesse1!]

I've just been reading about a new diet based on soups and shakes that are claimed to put type 2 diabetes into remission. Has anyone tried this and what was the result? I ask this because I've tried similar ways to loose weight in the past and found them to be nothing more than a waste of time and money. I told my then doctor that I was trying them and he said leave them alone, they are nothing more than a money maker for the makers of these things.

However, that was a few years ago. So I'm wondering have things changed? Does this new diet and exercise program now work? How do I go about signing up to it and do I need to see my doctor first?

I absolutely hate replacement diets as a concept because they might make folk lose weight but the do absolutely nothing in reeducating people about food - real food that is. However, I suppose there's a lot of people who don't have the luxury of budget, time or money, to cook and so this is probably a very effective way of shifting the weight. However, I've been on a huge learning curve with food and carbs and its working for me. The BG is very much under control and the weight is coming off albeit very slowly. However, I do know that slowly is more effective in the long term. It feels like the wrong investment by NHS. It will garner results in the short term but I'd be more interested in the long term and thats where LCHF seems to fit well.

 

[Ditto]

I want to rant but can't be bothered, I've got toothache.

 

[Drummer]

I tried a meal replacement option way back - it did not work in the manner set out, two shakes and a small meal - despite being assured that the weight would just melt away, I did not lose anything. It was not taking into account my history of low calorie diets which had by then slowed my metabolism, and I was going to be finally diagnosed with a defunct thyroid about ten years later but I had all the symptoms then (it is notoriously difficult to diagnose I was told) I was sold supplements as well as the sachets.