Meat or veggie?

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rebrascora said:
I think the problem with people going vegetarian may be that they end up eating more and more highly processed foods and there may well be a connection between highly processed foods and obesity and diabetes.
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I assume you are not a vegetarian.
In my experience as someone who is mostly vegetarian (I eat no meat but do eat fish), who has like minded friends, vegetarians are no more likely to eat processed food than meat eaters. If you are someone who cooks from scratch and eat no meat, you are no more likely to eat processed food than if you eat meat.
I often eat tofu and eggs. I have made paneer and have friends who make seitan.
I also have vegan friends who have a young baby so little time to cook from scratch and eat more processed food.
There again, I have meat eating friends who eat as much (if not more) processed food, especially when you include cured meats and cheese.

The myth that vegetarians eat a highly processed diet is often perpetuated by meat eaters with little experience of a vegetarian diet.
 
helli said:
I assume you are not a vegetarian.
In my experience as someone who is mostly vegetarian (I eat no meat but do eat fish), who has like minded friends, vegetarians are no more likely to eat processed food than meat eaters. If you are someone who cooks from scratch and eat no meat, you are no more likely to eat processed food than if you eat meat.
I often eat tofu and eggs. I have made paneer and have friends who make seitan.
I also have vegan friends who have a young baby so little time to cook from scratch and eat more processed food.
There again, I have meat eating friends who eat as much (if not more) processed food, especially when you include cured meats and cheese.

The myth that vegetarians eat a highly processed diet is often perpetuated by meat eaters with little experience of a vegetarian diet.
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Yep. No matter waht the mix of animal & plant sources it's just as easy to eat badly.

There's a whole lot of vegan junk food out there, and a whole lot of non-vegan.

Anyway I'm mainly plants, plus some chicken & fish, and the most processed things I eat are ryvitas, pumpernickel and soy milk. (But I'm a weird eater so that's pretty meaningless.)
 
helli said:
-I assume you are not a vegetarian.
In my experience as someone who is mostly vegetarian (I eat no meat but do eat fish), who has like minded friends, vegetarians are no more likely to eat processed food than meat eaters. If you are someone who cooks from scratch and eat no meat, you are no more likely to eat processed food than if you eat meat.
I often eat tofu and eggs. I have made paneer and have friends who make seitan.
I also have vegan friends who have a young baby so little time to cook from scratch and eat more processed food.
There again, I have meat eating friends who eat as much (if not more) processed food, especially when you include cured meats and cheese.

The myth that vegetarians eat a highly processed diet is often perpetuated by meat eaters with little experience of a vegetarian diet.
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Hot dogs, salami, cured bacon, burgers, jerky, any prepacked sliced meats to name but a few...........
I think the fallacy is when non vegetarians imagine meat is so alluring, people must need to eat meat substitutes.
 
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Worth a look: Dr Anna Borek is a plant-eater who does interesting/scary N=1 experiments on herself - eg what effect on health markers of 28 days eating vegan junk, etc.

 
travellor said:
Hot dogs, salami, cured bacon, burgers, jerky, any prepacked sliced meats to name but a few...........
I think the fallacy is when non vegetarians imagine meat is so alluring, people must need to eat meat substitutes.
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The problem with some of the 'processed' vegetarian foods is that they are made to look, and have the flavour and texture of meat and people who eat veggie because those are the reasons they don't eat meat find it objectionable.
 
travellor said:
A grazing cow can produce around 30 litres of milk a day.
Intensive diary farming can double that, and requires a lot less space per animal, so is far more cost effective.
Why do you think supermarket milk is so cheap?

This is milk production now.

View attachment 23384

www.theguardian.com

UK farmers face dilemma over 8,100-cow 'super-dairy'

Plans for an 8,100-cow dairy farm at Nocton in Lincolnshire will 'polarise' farming in the UK and destroy smaller rural-based family farms say those working in the sector
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

And, yes, even "grass fed", as opposed to outside grazing on fresh grass, can be grass fed in an intensive dairy farm, and still be advertised as "grass fed".





And then, "grass fed" means a percentage of the diet can still be pelleted feeds, such as over winter, or where grass can't be used for any reason.

As to healthy?
Once their use is over, they are off for dog food.

The same applies to beef farming.
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Obviously having worked and lived on farms for 35 years beef, dairy, pig and sheep I know absolutely nothing about farming :( Your info sure is an eye opener pardon the sarcasm
 
Pumper_Sue said:
Obviously having worked and lived on farms for 35 years beef, dairy, pig and sheep I know absolutely nothing about farming :( Your info sure is an eye opener pardon the sarcasm
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Things have moved on a lot since 35 years ago.
That's progress for you.
 
travellor said:
Things have moved on a lot since 35 years ago.
That's progress for you.
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" having worked and lived on farms for 35 years"

trouble with reading comprehension? That's twice in 2 days..
 
Leadinglights said:
The problem with some of the 'processed' vegetarian foods is that they are made to look, and have the flavour and texture of meat and people who eat veggie because those are the reasons they don't eat meat find it objectionable.
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No worse than non vegan ready meals, and all the other junk using mechanically recovered meat off the carcass glued together into chicken nuggets and similar.
Turkey twizzlers were never healthy.
 
Veggie and vegan diets are good for weight loss. Here’s someone who lost over 180kg and reversed his Type 2:

https://www.forksoverknives.com/success-stories/lost-400-pounds-on-whole-food-vegan-diet/

bulkbiker said:
Well the OP that started this thread although now disconnected was a vegetarian who was just diagnosed with an HbA1c of 114 so I'd say their diet wasn't doing them any favours.
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And the majority of people diagnosed with Type 2 aren’t vegetarian, so it’s an irrelevant point.

Any diet can be ‘bad’. Vegans could live on ready salted crisps and fries - not healthy. Meat eaters could eat every meal supersized in McDonald’s - not healthy. Vegetarians could live on cheesy fries - not healthy.

Leaping on a new member and implicitly criticising their diet is unnecessary - especially when the criticism is unfounded.
 
Leadinglights said:
The problem with some of the 'processed' vegetarian foods is that they are made to look, and have the flavour and texture of meat and people who eat veggie because those are the reasons they don't eat meat find it objectionable.
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There are many reasons why people eat a vegetarian diet. It could be a dislike of the flavour meat. It could be a concern for animal welfare or the planet resources. It could be an allergy or intolerance to meat. It could be a religious or cultural thing.
Some of these reasons mean people do not want to eat fake meat but if, for example, you have a meat intolerance, you may really enjoy them.
 
I have often wondered about these fake meat products, and I’ve always thought they were a bit daft, if you don’t want to eat meat for whatever reason then don’t eat it, but why pretend? (As you can tell, I am not vegetarian.). Thank you @helli for showing a point of view that I would not have thought of. We can all learn and should not criticise each other for our food choices.
 
travellor said:
The typical beef finishing intensive farm in the UK can turn over 6000 cattle a year, finishing them on feed to fatten them up very quickly for supermarkets. (That isn't grass they are on)
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I think you will find that cattle start life on farms grazing and then sold on to the finishing farms where they are housed over winter due to weather and lack of nutrients in the grass. Even if cattle kept out all the year round grass is supplemented.

Farming and our food chain is a very complicated system, with an awful lot of misinformation being banded about.
 
Pumper_Sue said:
I think you will find that cattle start life on farms grazing and then sold on to the finishing farms where they are housed over winter due to weather and lack of nutrients in the grass. Even if cattle kept out all the year round grass is supplemented.

Farming and our food chain is a very complicated system, with an awful lot of misinformation being banded about.
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That's exactly what I have been saying, especially the trend for intensive finishing, which can save the cost of the final overwinter with the right combination of intensive feeds and choice of livestock.

As you say, even outside kept cattle need supplements, but they also need shelter if the weather is too bad to stay out, if the farm wants to supply to supermarkets under the Red Tractor mark.
 
Ideal world we could buy meat from local butchers where animals have been fed naturally outdoors & had good quality of life in short time that they lived, truth is there's hardly any local butchers now as they've been forced out by supermarkets who mainly purchase meat from intensive farming, no matter what labels claim.

When we were kids we had 2 butchers shops within half mile of where we lived, town was scattered with them & indoor market must have at least 6 butchers stalls, same again with fishmongers & greengrocers, now they have gone apart from 1 greengrocer stall.

So for most only option is to buy from supermarkets, sad but sign of the times & doubt very much we will ever return to what it was decades before.
 
nonethewiser said:
Ideal world we could buy meat from local butchers where animals have been fed naturally outdoors & had good quality of life in short time that they lived
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Exactly where I buy mine from and 95% of the time cheaper than the supermarket and way better quality.
 
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