Main Dr Say's No To Insulin..Gastric Bypass!

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Poor Ellowyne, i'm not suprised you're confused. Before i get all ranty, let me add to your collection of hugs...

Oh boy, i get so mad when so called experts and health care professionals say that type two diabetes is caused by being fat! A year on and i'm still feeling guilty....There is a simple test for this my friends. I'm not the fattest girl in the world, ok, i'm never gonna be mistaken for Kate Moss (would i want to be? That's another question...), but there are lots of people out there who are probably bigger than you and me. Are they all diabetic? No. There are also lots of thin people with type two diabetes...my gran's not exactly big, but she's diabetic. It's not the cause and therefore losing weight isn't gonna cure it (if it did, i'd be down the gym every night) it may help control your blood sugar to the point where you don't need medication to help out, but i don't think there is a "cure". Right, rant over....Now for something a tad more helpful (i hope...)

Insulin does tend to make people put on weight, it's not 100% sure, but it's likely. On the other hand, i find it a bit odd that your doctors are so against putting you on it..."last resort?"...my local DESMOND teacher assured the class that we'd all be on it eventually, i think she said within 5 years.

Have you tried Byetta/Exenatide? That's supposed to be good for people with unsteady sugar levels and helps you lose wieght. You inject it, twice daily like insulin but you take it at the same time as oral meds. Side effects can be a bummer though.

Rachel
 
Ellowyne

So sad to hear your news but I'm afraid ignorance and prejudice can be very common in some health care professionals. Despite gliclazide and metformin in increasing quantities I struggled to get my blood glucose down and to lose weight so I looked into the diet issues much more carefully.

Joslin Centre for Diabetes (linked to Harvard University) and GI people at University of Sydney advise a minimum of 130g chd a day and I've had real success on that with good weight loss, blood glucose in range (fasting 4-7, 2 hours post food <8.5, HbA1c, 6.5 - actually 5.3) 90% of time. I use my calorie, carb and fat bible or simply type in the food plus "calories carbs" on the search engine on my browser. My kitchen scales are the most used piece of equipment in my kitchen. Side effect has been that I have also lost 2 stone worth of my husband!

Others find they need lower levels of carbs than that but this has worked for me and still means I can have bread, fruit et cetera The only way to work out what is right for you is via testing

I am now well within the healthy weight range (BMI) and still require meds for my Type 2 diabetes. I might have started off with insulin resistance because I was overweight but looks like my pancreas got worn out over the years before diagnosis. Like Paul Nichols on another thread my symptoms were put down to stress for a long time so I wasn't diagnosed when ideally I should have been but "no use crying over spilt milk" and I had to take responsibility for finding out what affected me as wasn't getting good enough answers from the NHS

If you can get hold of a copy of Diabetes for Dummies and Type 2 Diabetes the first year (Gretchen Becker) I think you might find both helpful

Remember though - you are not alone. Many of us battle this condition on a daily basis and have to fight both the depression and the inadequacies of the professional advice we receive - here on this site we find the understanding to help us, alongisde support given with compassion

Take care
 
i have been following this thread and really feeling for you hun. but you are getting some excellent advice...keep strong X more hugsxxxx
 
Vanessa said:
Ellowyne

So sad to hear your news but I'm afraid ignorance and prejudice can be very common in some health care professionals. Despite gliclazide and metformin in increasing quantities I struggled to get my blood glucose down and to lose weight so I looked into the diet issues much more carefully.

Joslin Centre for Diabetes (linked to Harvard University) and GI people at University of Sydney advise a minimum of 130g chd a day and I've had real success on that with good weight loss, blood glucose in range (fasting 4-7, 2 hours post food <8.5, HbA1c, 6.5 - actually 5.3) 90% of time. I use my calorie, carb and fat bible or simply type in the food plus "calories carbs" on the search engine on my browser. My kitchen scales are the most used piece of equipment in my kitchen. Side effect has been that I have also lost 2 stone worth of my husband!

Others find they need lower levels of carbs than that but this has worked for me and still means I can have bread, fruit et cetera The only way to work out what is right for you is via testing

I am now well within the healthy weight range (BMI) and still require meds for my Type 2 diabetes. I might have started off with insulin resistance because I was overweight but looks like my pancreas got worn out over the years before diagnosis. Like Paul Nichols on another thread my symptoms were put down to stress for a long time so I wasn't diagnosed when ideally I should have been but "no use crying over spilt milk" and I had to take responsibility for finding out what affected me as wasn't getting good enough answers from the NHS

If you can get hold of a copy of Diabetes for Dummies and Type 2 Diabetes the first year (Gretchen Becker) I think you might find both helpful

Remember though - you are not alone. Many of us battle this condition on a daily basis and have to fight both the depression and the inadequacies of the professional advice we receive - here on this site we find the understanding to help us, alongisde support given with compassion

Take care
Click to expand...

Ooo great post, think you have helped me there as well. Thanks.
 
Adrienne said:
Ooo great post, think you have helped me there as well. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Thanks Adrienne.

Realise that in my half awake state pre breakfast this am I missed out a vital part of the info - I also count my calories and try to keep to 1250 per day. Some days this feels like an impossible target particularly when the weather is grotty so take it over a week and have occasional treat. One of my challenges was learning how to manage the hypo munchies when they hit ..... just dare not open the jelly babies as that really starts me off so glucotabs for me. Overall I've tried to work on the basis that a loss of 1/2lb a week is over 2 stone in a year ..... but sense goes out of the window if those damn scales don't show a decrease

Couple of treats that work for me are Alpen lite chocolate and orange as a snack at 60 kcal and 11.2g chd when I need to taste something sweet or 30g Davidstow lighter cheddar (available in Sainsbury's) for something savoury for 102 kcal
 
I can't go on no more...sorry.

Hello again, sorry to be such a pain! Thank you for all your comments.

Well, I spoke to my 'Hospital' DSN today and, he also agree's with the other advice I have been givern.

He said that because I can not tolerate the oral medication and the fact that Insulin will make me gain more weight....Like it or not, he said, thses are the only options left for me....No medication, or the Gastric Bypass.

I said to him "looks like I'm going to die early from Diabetic complications then does'nt it!"

Haven't stopped crying again today, crying now and so bloody scared, I can't even begin to tell you how truly frightened and alone I feel. I can not beleive that this is it, can't take oral med's, no to Insulin, just a major operation left as my only option other than to just wait for some complication to happen from Diabetes

I guess now that it must be true...My Gp says this is it, the GP DSN, and the hospital DSN...they can't all be wrong? I don't get that the other GP at the surgery was going to put me on Insulin, she said nothing of what these other Drs said...yet it was stopped by my main GP, the one I am registered with.

I really do not think I can go theough with the surgery. You may all disagree, but I just am too frightened to have it done, it's not like they are pulling a tooth!

I really can't go on fighting this anymore, I am up against too much here.

Thank you for bothering with me, I know I have asked so much of you all and I really do appretiate the time you have all taken to reply.

Ellowyne x
 
The research shows that people with type 2 who start insulin do put on weight. one of the selling points of levemir is that it puts on less weight than any of the other insulins. People in the trials still put on weight but not as much as on lantus. So I can see why your nurse has said you will put on weight, it would be unusual if you didn't.

I think cure is not a word that generally can be used with diabetes, although people have had normal blood sugars after weight loss surgery, so although I wouldn't say they are cured, they may be able to tolerate a normal diet and maintaining good blood sugars.

Would your GP/DSN refer you to the hospital for a second opinion regarding insulin/medication? I think your case sounds quite complex and you would benefit from a consultant review.
 
I am due to see my consultant in 4 months, however, the DSN said that he would try to bring this forward for me. Not really much poiny though, I know the cinsultant has expressed that the surgery would be best for me. My care, for want of a better word, workers here have made there mind up based on my weight, I am up against too much here in the Isle Of Wight!...This is not the first time that I have received poor care.

I asked the DSN, can't you just give me a try with the Levimir, just for a few months and see if I put on weight?...He said it was a slim chance that the consultant would do this. They are pressuring me to make a very complex and difficult decision.

If I don't want to operation surely they have a duty to treat me for my blood sugars?

If all else fails then I want to try and find a private consultant, an expert in diabetes. Does anyone know how I can go about this please?...I don't know where to start? I guess I can phone Diabetes UK, when I have spoken to them they have suggested that, because of my other health issues, that Insulin would be the best for me. I will see what they say and what advice they can give me tommorow, I tried ringing today but they are staff training.
 
I think it might help if you can find someone to go with you when you talk to these people. Someone who knows about diabetes, or who knows how the system works, a patient advocate perhaps. It seems to me you're being really harried to make a major decision without having those pressuring you explain fully why they think this is your only option. You need someone with you who can speak in their terms and support you at the same time. May I suggest you write down everything that's happened, and everything you're feeling, along with everything you're uncertain of? You can use it whenever you talk to them and keep using it until they listen and you get proper answers. Don't let anyone rush you into anything.
 
Hope you can get the appointment moved forward, maybe your consultant will decide that you should trial insulin.
I'm not entirely sure how you go about finding a private doctor but this website might help you locate a private specialist
http://www.privatehealth.co.uk/
 
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sofaraway said:
Hope you can get the appointment moved forward, maybe your consultant will decide that you should trial insulin.
I'm not entirely sure how you go about finding a private doctor but this website might help you locate a private specialist
http://www.privatehealth.co.uk/[/QUOTE


Thank you so much for the link!...I see on the website that there are two specialist Diabetes Drs not too far away from the Island. I will have a busy day on the phone tommorow!...I also have an appointment with my Counsellor tommorow afternoon. She is Diabetic and she hasd been appaulled by the treatment I have received.

I also found this link regarding Levimir...it details some clinical trials that are taking place now wirh type 2 Diabetics and the effect of Levimir. I thought it seemed quite interesting.

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00825643


I will let you know how I get on...I don't want to be a bother everyone though and seem like I'm just going on like I'm moaning! :(

Thank you again, Ellowyne.
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Ellowynne, please don't think you are just moaning - you have some very serious concerns and are receiving very conflicting information from your healthcare team. We want to do all we can to support you, so never feel you are bothering us!

Just a thought, I wonder if you could get referred to the Royal South Hants hospital in Southampton? The diabetes team there is very good and I feel you would get a much more sympathetic hearing from the DSNs there. 🙂
 
What Northerner said. It may be we can't be of much physical help being spread out all over the map, but any help we can offer, we will gladly give. I'm sure the others agree. I do my fair share of whinging on here in the certain knowledge that everyone understands and that someone will have sage advice for me. It's one of the main reasons this place exists.

Your counsellor sounds like just the person you need. I hope she can help. Let us know how it goes?
 
Thank you so much...I just feel like I am being a nuisanse, and I feel so needy? Just don't feel it is fair when all of you have your own battles and, well, I just always seem to be asking for help...here come the tears, again!

I'm sorry, I am just so lost....and angry!

Thank you Northerner, I will certainly ask for a referal to the Southampton Hospital. I have appointmnet with my GP on Monday, if she is still adement that there is no help that she can offer me then I will request a referal for a second opinion.

You know, despite all this stress I am still sticking to my blood testing and keeping my carbs lower, it would of been so easy to fall off the wagon...as it were!. I have NO sugar in my house anymore...a real biggy for me! I used to love my sweet tea in the morning, just one cup a day!...But I've give that up as well as the Coke....I'm patting myself on the back for that 🙂

Funny thing though, well, not so funny but...I have not lost 1lb in weight!...Not 1 :confused:

I'll keep on though, it's best for me and I know that...wish that the Drs could see how hard I am trying and still my sugars are high and my weight does'nt shift...I guess I need to try harder still!

I know I've said it loads, but...Thank you, so much.

Ello xXx
 
Hiya

Do you know, you sound like a different person in the last couple of messages. You are starting to sound a bit more upbeat which is just so great.

We are all here to share experiences with each other and you need some help from us or just generally cheering up.

I know a private lady in London. She is absolutely phenomenal. I have had a couple of friends go and see her but this is for children. I don't know if she does adults. I have put the feelers out to find out. I met her in August and talk about eccentric but amazing so I would recommend her personally. If I find out she sees adults I'll let you know but again this is in London, so a train trip !

Take care, keep up the testing and low carbing, just think of all the weight you are NOT putting on by doing this. That is a huge positive :D
 
Thank you Adrienne!...Would be grateful for any info about any good Private Drs.

Weird, but, I think I am feling abit more upbeat, in some ways!..I guess I give up or fight?

I know I am Fat, I'm not blind and I have mirrors in my house, but of all the times I have had the Fat Stick waved at me this is by far my worst experience. It's so easy to put everything down to weight. Yes, I know it deoes'nt help, but as well as being Fat...I happen to be human too! I am just not willing to accept that these are the only options left open to me?....How can the NHS put anyone in this kind of position?...I honestly feel that this is surely an infringemnet on my human rights!!!

I will not accept an Operation or No treatment at all as the Only options!...I will go to the papers about my treatment if I have to.

I know my local paper would be interested, as a lady, who was pressured into having the Gastric Bypass Operation sadly died on June because of the operation and lack of care she received!...she lived on the Island here, and had the surgery at the same hospital I have been reffered for mine!

Her family was in the local newpaper as they want an investigation into her death. As I say, she apparently was pressured into having the Gastric Bypass and now her family has no Mother, Wife, and Grandmother.

Upbeat...an in a fighting mood...at least for today!
 
Ellowyne said:
Thank you Adrienne!...Would be grateful for any info about any good Private Drs.

Weird, but, I think I am feling abit more upbeat, in some ways!..I guess I give up or fight?

I know I am Fat, I'm not blind and I have mirrors in my house, but of all the times I have had the Fat Stick waved at me this is by far my worst experience. It's so easy to put everything down to weight. Yes, I know it deoes'nt help, but as well as being Fat...I happen to be human too! I am just not willing to accept that these are the only options left open to me?....How can the NHS put anyone in this kind of position?...I honestly feel that this is surely an infringemnet on my human rights!!!

I will not accept an Operation or No treatment at all as the Only options!...I will go to the papers about my treatment if I have to.

I know my local paper would be interested, as a lady, who was pressured into having the Gastric Bypass Operation sadly died on June because of the operation and lack of care she received!...she lived on the Island here, and had the surgery at the same hospital I have been reffered for mine!

Her family was in the local newpaper as they want an investigation into her death. As I say, she apparently was pressured into having the Gastric Bypass and now her family has no Mother, Wife, and Grandmother.

Upbeat...an in a fighting mood...at least for today!
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Woo hoo I was waiting to see if you mentioned the papers. You are a lady after my own heart or whatever that saying is. Name and shame, name and shame. Absolutely. I've been in the papers a couple of times, one was about the blue parking badge. I was told that my daughter should have one but where I lived at the time were having none of it and the treatment was shocking so I rang the local paper and hey presto we got front page ! Didn't expect that. So the next time I applied for a badge I got it. It is a god send for Jessica, she is just too heavy to carry now if hypo or after a hypo and so is her kit I take around with us.

Yep you fight and no i wouldn't have that op either after hearing that story.

I've had the fat stick or whatever waved around by my family for years at me so I totally get that. I think that is why in my head I stay fat really just to stick two fingers up at them but at the end of the day I'm harming me, not them !!! Doesn't make sense really. 🙂
 
Going to the paper is a great idea. I think they'll probably jump at it as it ties in with the other story and clearly shows an ongoing problem. It might help the other family get their investigation, force changes in the doctors' practices and attitudes to treatment of Type 2s like us. It might get you a sensible treatment plan, oh and maybe save a few lives too.

Getting angry in your situation is a good thing as long as you can channel the anger into something productive, like the news story.

Go for it!
 
fight for it ellowynne! go for it ! that is what we can all do...adriannes posts are fantastic... try phoning her link even if she only deals with kids she might know of someone else ...good people often stick together...and please dont worry about moaning we all do it ...my moans are so insignificant in comparasion to your fight ....yet here it doesnt matter how big or small we are all helping each other...look after yourself...x
 
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