I've never seen the reason for HF

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Bubbsie said:
Is the low fat diet pushed as hard as you push the Atkins diet here Drummer?...time after time you tell us how well you are doing...ditch the medication...'low carbing' is the way forward... you make comment not supported by any 'hard evidence'...prime example..'.I don't have the 'normal' fat found in biscuits, pastry, cakes and other things considered essential by many people'...who are these people you speak of...really...you seem to have missed the point entirely...diet for diabetes is an individual matter...what works for you is individual to you...not everyone affected by type 2 diabetes...I'd be happy to discuss this with you further... if you could direct me to your source of reference...would that be Dr Atkins?
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I am glad that you repeat my observation that diet is an individual matter - we are all different, it is the only thing we have in common - but low carbing has restored my blood test numbers to normal and lowered my cholesterol. I stopped taking the tablets because they were making my life Hell - the doctor who prescribed them did not mention side effects, the diabetes education team tried to get me to go on taking them even though my memory seems to be permanently damaged, and all for no reason. Thankfully there are more and more health care professionals realising that the advice usually given about what constitutes a healthy diet is misguided even for those who are glucose tolerant. The low fat sugar added products which are advertised on TV incessantly - surely you have noticed them?
 
Drummer said:
I am glad that you repeat my observation that diet is an individual matter - we are all different, it is the only thing we have in common - but low carbing has restored my blood test numbers to normal and lowered my cholesterol. I stopped taking the tablets because they were making my life Hell - the doctor who prescribed them did not mention side effects, the diabetes education team tried to get me to go on taking them even though my memory seems to be permanently damaged, and all for no reason. Thankfully there are more and more health care professionals realising that the advice usually given about what constitutes a healthy diet is misguided even for those who are glucose tolerant. The low fat sugar added products which are advertised on TV incessantly - surely you have noticed them?[/QUOTE
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Whether you stop taking your medication...your prerogative...when you encourage others to follow suit...clearly that is not your prerogative...as for professionals realising they have been giving misguided advice on diet...no I haven't noticed that...where exactly is that information to be found?
 
Bubbsie said:
Whether you stop taking your medication...your prerogative...when you encourage others to follow suit...clearly that is not your prerogative...as for professionals realising they have been giving misguided advice on diet...no I haven't noticed that...where exactly is that information to be found?
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Actually I found the terrible reaction I had to the tablets a great incentive to really try hard to follow the diet I decided on - I'd have eaten frogspawn rather than go on becoming increasingly incontinent - if you have never experienced it you can have no idea how it alters a life, - to have to abandon ones shopping in the supermarket and scuttle off back to the car, then wrap a garment around you to be able to sit down and then hope you can find a parking spot close to the house rather than walk past neighbours in that state. If my experience has saved another person from going through that then I will repeat the full details more often - I did wish to be more delicate by explaining that I stopped taking the standard medication because it made me unwell and hoping that people picked up on just what the problems are.
If you haven't noticed that many professionals give very bad advice about diet then you are so lucky - I was told that I had to follow a diet sheet when pregnant with my second child, or I would be taken into hospital and 'fed properly' - three weeks later I had pre eclampsia. We were lucky to survive as well as we did, but I disobeyed the doctor and went back to eating low carb foods, but I set aside thoughts of another child so as to avoid the carb laden diet sheet - so being advised by the diabetes education team to follow the Eatwell guidelines and only eat wholemeal bread and jacket potatoes - it would have been laughable if it wasn't so sad to see the state the other people on the curse (ha - course - but maybe that is right) were in.
One poor man - the was 20 stone, could hardly walk for the state of his feet, his wife with him worried to death and the stupid nurse lecturing him on making sure he ate low fat yoghurt for breakfast or grilled food rather than fried. They weren't at the third session - I felt really awful - there was me with my test results showing I was no longer in the diabetic range and the others who were able to attend making no progress.
I did feel like protesting and asking why can't you see that your advice is not working - but I was really too emotional about my own results to think straight.
Even now, as I feel better with every passing week I just don't understand why or how I could be so lucky when my grandmother died in such a dreadful way from the complications of type 2 diabetes
 
Drummer said:
Actually I found the terrible reaction I had to the tablets a great incentive to really try hard to follow the diet I decided on - I'd have eaten frogspawn rather than go on becoming increasingly incontinent - if you have never experienced it you can have no idea how it alters a life, - to have to abandon ones shopping in the supermarket and scuttle off back to the car, then wrap a garment around you to be able to sit down and then hope you can find a parking spot close to the house rather than walk past neighbours in that state. If my experience has saved another person from going through that then I will repeat the full details more often - I did wish to be more delicate by explaining that I stopped taking the standard medication because it made me unwell and hoping that people picked up on just what the problems are.
If you haven't noticed that many professionals give very bad advice about diet then you are so lucky - I was told that I had to follow a diet sheet when pregnant with my second child, or I would be taken into hospital and 'fed properly' - three weeks later I had pre eclampsia. We were lucky to survive as well as we did, but I disobeyed the doctor and went back to eating low carb foods, but I set aside thoughts of another child so as to avoid the carb laden diet sheet - so being advised by the diabetes education team to follow the Eatwell guidelines and only eat wholemeal bread and jacket potatoes - it would have been laughable if it wasn't so sad to see the state the other people on the curse (ha - course - but maybe that is right) were in.
One poor man - the was 20 stone, could hardly walk for the state of his feet, his wife with him worried to death and the stupid nurse lecturing him on making sure he ate low fat yoghurt for breakfast or grilled food rather than fried. They weren't at the third session - I felt really awful - there was me with my test results showing I was no longer in the diabetic range and the others who were able to attend making no progress.
I did feel like protesting and asking why can't you see that your advice is not working - but I was really too emotional about my own results to think straight.
Even now, as I feel better with every passing week I just don't understand why or how I could be so lucky when my grandmother died in such a dreadful way from the complications of type 2 diabetes
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Well that's a brief history covered then...and when exactly did you split the atom?:(:(:(:([/QUOTE]
 
That assumes we're eating the 2000 kcal, instead of 2600. And eating the sort of food that has fat replaced with something else (which a lot of people do). That's a different question to what effect fat itself has in your diet.
It's possible to control fat by having the same mayonaze, butter, sauses etc and managing the quantaties.
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If one has an office work and doesn't make a lot of exercise 2000 kcal/day is a resonable figure.
HAving said that the proble is the message "FAT is BAD" that is misleading. I prefer to eat a piece of blue cheese or a liver with onions with a glass of red wine instead of corn flakes or mashed potatoes and a Diet coke or a Fanta. Being more satisfied makes me happier.
 
MikeTurin said:
If one has an office work and doesn't make a lot of exercise 2000 kcal/day is a resonable figure.
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My point was that, while 2000 might be a resonable amount of calories to have, lot of us might very well be eating much more than that. Or were.
MikeTurin said:
Having said that the proble is the message "FAT is BAD" that is misleading.
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The whole Bad thing is bad.
 
Drummer said:
Actually I found the terrible reaction I had to the tablets a great incentive to really try hard to follow the diet I decided on - I'd have eaten frogspawn rather than go on becoming increasingly incontinent - if you have never experienced it you can have no idea how it alters a life, - to have to abandon ones shopping in the supermarket and scuttle off back to the car, then wrap a garment around you to be able to sit down and then hope you can find a parking spot close to the house rather than walk past neighbours in that state. If my experience has saved another person from going through that then I will repeat the full details more often - I did wish to be more delicate by explaining that I stopped taking the standard medication because it made me unwell and hoping that people picked up on just what the problems are.
If you haven't noticed that many professionals give very bad advice about diet then you are so lucky - I was told that I had to follow a diet sheet when pregnant with my second child, or I would be taken into hospital and 'fed properly' - three weeks later I had pre eclampsia. We were lucky to survive as well as we did, but I disobeyed the doctor and went back to eating low carb foods, but I set aside thoughts of another child so as to avoid the carb laden diet sheet - so being advised by the diabetes education team to follow the Eatwell guidelines and only eat wholemeal bread and jacket potatoes - it would have been laughable if it wasn't so sad to see the state the other people on the curse (ha - course - but maybe that is right) were in.
One poor man - the was 20 stone, could hardly walk for the state of his feet, his wife with him worried to death and the stupid nurse lecturing him on making sure he ate low fat yoghurt for breakfast or grilled food rather than fried. They weren't at the third session - I felt really awful - there was me with my test results showing I was no longer in the diabetic range and the others who were able to attend making no progress.
I did feel like protesting and asking why can't you see that your advice is not working - but I was really too emotional about my own results to think straight.
Even now, as I feel better with every passing week I just don't understand why or how I could be so lucky when my grandmother died in such a dreadful way from the complications of type 2 diabetes
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Makes me relieved I don't have to get involved with medics or courses over my diabetes 😱 They don't bother me and I don't bother them apart from the annual review. I have to bother them with other serious conditions however. I stopped the metformin too but simply because I felt so ill on them (for different reasons to you). But I accept they may just be in my future.

I'm glad it's working out for you Drummer but I'm losing track of what you're trying to tell us now. So many of us low carb but is it the Atkins Diet you're advocating? That's not for me for renal reasons I'm afraid.

I had very severe pre-eclampsia but can't ever remember diet advice around it apart from lay off the salt.

Keep on doing what works for you. That's all any of us can do really.
 
Amigo said:
Makes me relieved I don't have to get involved with medics or courses over my diabetes 😱 They don't bother me and I don't bother them apart from the annual review. I have to bother them with other serious conditions however. I stopped the metformin too but simply because I felt so ill on them (for different reasons to you). But I accept they may just be in my future.

I'm glad it's working out for you Drummer but I'm losing track of what you're trying to tell us now. So many of us low carb but is it the Atkins Diet you're advocating? That's not for me for renal reasons I'm afraid.

I had very severe pre-eclampsia but can't ever remember diet advice around it apart from lay off the salt.

Keep on doing what works for you. That's all any of us can do really.
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Well - exactly - I do keep trying to emphasis that it is down to us to discover our particular requirements to safeguard our health and well being.
I am envious of you being free of interference though I'm sorry to read that you have kidney damage.
The Atkins way of eating - although it was not the first low carb diet by many decades seems to be the one everybody heard about in the 1970s and then was guided away from despite there already being an epidemic of illness and obesity. It seems to be having a resurgence and far more scientific interest now, but repackaged as 'low carb' or 'LCHF' as though that somehow makes it different from the original.
I've posted several times trying to respond to the questions put to me by Bubbsie - but she is very mocking when I do. I'm not trying to tell you (personally) anything - simply trying to convey that my way of eating has resolved all the effects of diabetes, to a forum where there might be some people who would benefit from knowing that is possible.
I do hope that you can avoid having to take Metformin as feeling ill as a side effect of the medication is a pretty miserable state of affairs.
Pre eclampsia is a complication of diabetes - though I was not told that, and it seem it was not mentioned to you either - and I never had a blood test at the time.
 
Drummer said:
Well - exactly - I do keep trying to emphasis that it is down to us to discover our particular requirements to safeguard our health and well being.
I am envious of you being free of interference though I'm sorry to read that you have kidney damage.
The Atkins way of eating - although it was not the first low carb diet by many decades seems to be the one everybody heard about in the 1970s and then was guided away from despite there already being an epidemic of illness and obesity. It seems to be having a resurgence and far more scientific interest now, but repackaged as 'low carb' or 'LCHF' as though that somehow makes it different from the original.
I've posted several times trying to respond to the questions put to me by Bubbsie - but she is very mocking when I do. I'm not trying to tell you (personally) anything - simply trying to convey that my way of eating has resolved all the effects of diabetes, to a forum where there might be some people who would benefit from knowing that is possible.
I do hope that you can avoid having to take Metformin as feeling ill as a side effect of the medication is a pretty miserable state of affairs.
Pre eclampsia is a complication of diabetes - though I was not told that, and it seem it was not mentioned to you either - and I never had a blood test at the time.
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You've done a good job of explaining your process and logic @Drummer, and it's very much along the lines of what we tell most people - you are an individual and you need to discover what works well for you, using and adapting available advice to suit your own tolerances and maintain your quality of life. Well done on your success and hard work 🙂
 
Northerner said:
You've done a good job of explaining your process and logic @Drummer, and it's very much along the lines of what we tell most people - you are an individual and you need to discover what works well for you, using and adapting available advice to suit your own tolerances and maintain your quality of life. Well done on your success and hard work 🙂
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I do sometimes feel that it ought to have been hard work - and thank you for your congratulations - but it was so easy.
I still have to go and get my full results for the 6 month tests - I heard the Hba1c of 41 and missed all the other numbers as I was shocked rigid.
By the way - I am a musician for morris/longsword/maypole - but I have been looking for my clogs for the last few weeks - I am feeling so rejuvenated that I might just get up and show the youngsters how it ought to be done.
 
Drummer said:
I do sometimes feel that it ought to have been hard work - and thank you for your congratulations - but it was so easy.
I still have to go and get my full results for the 6 month tests - I heard the Hba1c of 41 and missed all the other numbers as I was shocked rigid.
By the way - I am a musician for morris/longsword/maypole - but I have been looking for my clogs for the last few weeks - I am feeling so rejuvenated that I might just get up and show the youngsters how it ought to be done.
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:D You show 'em! 🙂
 
I remember as a youngster doing the Atkins diet and ended up in hospital as a result. This was before I got diagnosed type one. I was passing out all over the place. They said I was severely anemic (in later life I found out I'm also actually coeliac). I was having heart palpitations and was severely ill. Apparently I developed a form of ketonacidosis (not diabetic ketonacidosis because this was many years before my type one diagnosis).

If it works for you great. But it doesn't work for everyone. Personally I've never wanted to be that ill again so will never go low carb. I am able to control my diabetes with insulin and carb count very well.
 
Amberzak said:
I remember as a youngster doing the Atkins diet and ended up in hospital as a result.
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Really? That is terrible! I remember when I first heard about Atkins and it had/has such a bad reputation. I thought it was all bacon and eggs with no veggies. Crazy really. I think people followed what they thought was Atkins without actually reading the book. I wasn't interested in it at all until in 2004 I saw a documentary more or less saying how unhealthy it was. My sister and I looked at one another, the penny just dropped. I said that sounds like it would be just the thing for me and she agreed. I gave it a whirl for a week, really makeshift as I knew nothing about it really but from never being able to lose weight ever, I lost six pounds in the first week. Nearly fell off the scales in Boot's. So surprised. Now if I could just beat my food addiction and stick to it I'd be laughing. :D

Dr A does stress that people with kidney trouble should never do Atkins.
 
There was a constant stream of misinformation about the Atkins diet - when I describe the meals I have and say it is the Atkins diet I am often told that it can't be, because the Atkins diet is all fried foods - they saw it on TV or read all about it in a magazine. I use New Diet Revolution.
 
Drummer said:
I use New Diet Revolution.
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Yes. I just wish I had your consistency. I'll be on it a few days and then drift off...I've got to get a grip, my health is suffering. When doing Atkins I feel on top of the world. Just a real good feeling of well-being. I just 'know' this is the correct way to eat although I do use it as an excuse to be greedy, but that's just me. 🙂 I mean who needs 8ounces of mushrooms!?
 
I'm attending a meeting this month at which one or two local people well placed in the D community will be present.

First off I will roll out some actual examples of glaring inconsistencies, can't promise that anything positive will transpire.

It will however start an ongoing conversation, so,

Anyone any suggestions/points ??
 
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