I've never seen the reason for HF

[Amigo]

Wouldn't agree with that Bill...I've heard similar from others here...I have no doubt you will be heard...however...many of us here also challenge the concept that we need to be herded like sheep...all corralled in the same pen...Bill Stewardson...what have you done to me...fired me up now...I may join you on that crusade!

Yes it has fired you up Bubbsie. I hope you're not eating too much red meat? It's making your teeth too sharp! Lol

I'm keeping my head down this week. I've put myself on the naughty step as a failing diabetic at the moment. Not been that bad but my meter doesn't agree. Could be the infection I'm on the antibiotics for though.

It's so easy to be positively avengelical about the subject and adherence at the beginning but keeping the halo in place is a challenge long term. 🙄 Glad it's no biggie to you though Ipsi but like you say, 'you're just a type 2 with minor health problems'.

I wish!

Maybe I could take up plasticine. That sounds like a low carb habit! 🙂

 

[Bill Stewardson]

Wouldn't agree with that Bill...I've heard similar from others here...I have no doubt you will be heard...however...many of us here also challenge the concept that we need to be herded like sheep...all corralled in the same pen...Bill Stewardson...what have you done to me...fired me up now...I may join you on that crusade!

It seems obvious that several voices from around the country singing from the same hymn sheet would be far more effective.

I suggest the first hymn being "Bread of Heaven".

 

[Bubbsie]

Yes it has fired you up Bubbsie. I hope you're not eating too much red meat? It's making your teeth too sharp! Lol

I'm keeping my head down this week. I've put myself on the naughty step as a failing diabetic at the moment. Not been that bad but my meter doesn't agree. Could be the infection I'm on the antibiotics for though.

It's so easy to be positively avengelical about the subject and adherence at the beginning but keeping the halo in place is a challenge long term. 🙄 Glad it's no biggie to you though Ipsi but like you say, 'you're just a type 2 with minor health problems'.

I wish!

Maybe I could take up plasticine. That sounds like a low carb habit! 🙂

Think you could be right Amigo...possibly too much red meat...or those dammed apple tarts/cakes I made for the office yesterday...clearly sampled far too many...if only I realised plasticine was a lower carb option... used that instead of the pastry...no doubt it would have been kinder on my blood sugars...and my rebellious episode today

 

[Bubbsie]

It seems obvious that several voices from around the country singing from the same hymn sheet would be far more effective.

I suggest the first hymn being "Bread of Heaven".

Only if it's high protein...low carb Bill😉😉😉.

 

[Wirrallass]

Yes it has fired you up Bubbsie. I hope you're not eating too much red meat? It's making your teeth too sharp! Lol

I'm keeping my head down this week. I've put myself on the naughty step as a failing diabetic at the moment. Not been that bad but my meter doesn't agree. Could be the infection I'm on the antibiotics for though.

It's so easy to be positively avengelical about the subject and adherence at the beginning but keeping the halo in place is a challenge long term. 🙄 Glad it's no biggie to you though Ipsi but like you say, 'you're just a type 2 with minor health problems'.

I wish!

Maybe I could take up plasticine. That sounds like a low carb habit! 🙂

I think I'll take up plasticine too Amigo - it might just help keep my denture in place!

 

[Bubbsie]

I think I'll take up plasticine too Amigo - it might just keep my denture in place!

WOW...nutritional...as well as functional...could start a whole new clamour for plasticine...a much forgotten...much missed product...could be the start of a whole new enterprise WL...well spotted.

 

[Wirrallass]

WOW...nutritional...as well as functional...could start a whole new clamour for plasticine...a much forgotten...much missed product...could be the start of a whole new enterprise WL...well spotted.

Thanks Bubbs, theres no comparison between the two is there - plasticine is easier to cast aside - not so with Diabetes. It's a jolly hard work condition to control / manage - especially in the absence of test strips - Arrgh did I just mention TS's?!🙄 x
WL

 

[Ljc]

Im just a lone voice on the side of a hill in Yorkshire,

I will be heard though.

Oh no you're not. a lot of us are fighting our corner. At mo I'm still involved in edumacating the practice nurse in my D.
Good luck with your crusade.

 

[Drummer]

One thing which is obvious is that we are all different - my low carb diet is considered very low carb by some and high carb by others - it is simply the level of carbs I can eat and head towards normality whilst still feeling I am eating very well.
It might be considered high fat, but it doesn't involve slathering on butter or any other negative description - yes there is butter in it, and some olive oil for my salads, and oil and fat for frying - but I don't have the 'normal' fat found in biscuits, pastry, cakes and other things considered essential by many people. I suspect that although I eat full fat versions of foods my consumption of fat - particularly plant oils, is actually lower than the average diet when everything is taken into consideration.
How people deal with fats must also vary - just as I can't eat porridge without pushing up my blood glucose levels whilst others see no effect, my eating the crispy skin on the chicken thighs after hot air frying could be something to be avoided by others - and the button mushrooms cooked in the juice and fat after removing the chicken - but doing so has reduced my cholesterol rather than increased it, but others might ned to be eating coconut oil and avocados rather than the meat cheese and eggs I have.
Of course there is an argument about there being a connection between high cholesterol and health problems - the original research being on rabbits and it could not be replicated when done on omnivorous animals.
I have not seen any evidence that eating a lower fat diet improves life expectancy, which considering how it is pushed, it would surely have been seen by now.

 

[DaveB]

This is the first time I've heard anything like this. Of course, I'm always complaining about the lack of information. As far as I was aware, fat on it's own definitely can increase body fat, very easily. Which is a big reason for the low fat advice.

Many would disagree that fat increases body fat; surely it's the carbs that are the culprit hence the error in the low fat advice that we have been given

 

[DaveB]

The words of a professor in the field.

Hi Mr Stewardson
I do not think that cutting out carbohydrates is a good thing to do, in the long term. Having a balance of food types is most important.

You have not said whether you are referring to type 1 diabetes or type 2 diabetes. These are different, and the advice will also be different.

If you are referring to type 1 diabetes, the important thing about eating carbohydrates is that the amount of insulin taken is matched to to the carbohydrates, and getting the right ratio of this is very important. There are many places in the UK where people can attend the DAFNE course to learn how to really do this matching of insulin to carbohydrates is taught, and I would strongly recommend that everyone should at some stage do one of these courses. For type 2 diabetes, there are a number of different courses like Xpert and DESMOND that will also look at how best to learn about food balance.

A balance of food is important and having the carbohydrates is part of this. Getting all energy from fat will in the longer term cause problems with fat and cholesterol metabolism, and circulation. Having too much protein is an inefficient way of getting energy and, in the long term, will put strain on the kidneys. In addition, there are other types of nutrition gained from foods that have carbohydrate, and it is not only the carbohydrate content that is important.

The point about starch is that it is longer acting and having foods containing starch rather than a high content of refined sugar means that the carbohydrate is released over a longer period of time, rather than causing than blood glucose to rise rapidly, and therefore better to have this type of carbohydrate. Changing types of carbohydrate from highly refined carbohydrate to food with more starch means that the glucose should not rise so fast and can be better matched with the insulin, whether it comes from within the body or has to be given from the outside.

Good health and healthy eating is not simply about the blood sugar. Understanding all aspects of diet and health is important, and my experience of working with dietitians at a number of different hospitals is that they do not give bad advice and that consulting them early on is very important. More information could also be obtained from Diabetes UK.

Hope this helps.
Best wishes

Surely starch is a high GI carb absorbed very quickly e.g. white bread, pasta etc hence starch should be given a low priority in the diet? Also even T1s often need to keep some control of carb intake to avoid weight gain; something I need to do. Sadly, I'm not sure I would look to Diabetes UK for diet advice.

 

[Bubbsie]

One thing which is obvious is that we are all different - my low carb diet is considered very low carb by some and high carb by others - it is simply the level of carbs I can eat and head towards normality whilst still feeling I am eating very well.
It might be considered high fat, but it doesn't involve slathering on butter or any other negative description - yes there is butter in it, and some olive oil for my salads, and oil and fat for frying - but I don't have the 'normal' fat found in biscuits, pastry, cakes and other things considered essential by many people. I suspect that although I eat full fat versions of foods my consumption of fat - particularly plant oils, is actually lower than the average diet when everything is taken into consideration.
How people deal with fats must also vary - just as I can't eat porridge without pushing up my blood glucose levels whilst others see no effect, my eating the crispy skin on the chicken thighs after hot air frying could be something to be avoided by others - and the button mushrooms cooked in the juice and fat after removing the chicken - but doing so has reduced my cholesterol rather than increased it, but others might ned to be eating coconut oil and avocados rather than the meat cheese and eggs I have.
Of course there is an argument about there being a connection between high cholesterol and health problems - the original research being on rabbits and it could not be replicated when done on omnivorous animals.
I have not seen any evidence that eating a lower fat diet improves life expectancy, which considering how it is pushed, it would surely have been seen by now.

Is the low fat diet pushed as hard as you push the Atkins diet here Drummer?...time after time you tell us how well you are doing...ditch the medication...'low carbing' is the way forward... you make comment not supported by any 'hard evidence'...prime example..'.I don't have the 'normal' fat found in biscuits, pastry, cakes and other things considered essential by many people'...who are these people you speak of...really...you seem to have missed the point entirely...diet for diabetes is an individual matter...what works for you is individual to you...not everyone affected by type 2 diabetes...I'd be happy to discuss this with you further... if you could direct me to your source of reference...would that be Dr Atkins?

 

[Bubbsie]

Surely starch is a high GI carb absorbed very quickly e.g. white bread, pasta etc hence starch should be given a low priority in the diet? Also even T1s often need to keep some control of carb intake to avoid weight gain; something I need to do. Sadly, I'm not sure I would look to Diabetes UK for diet advice.

No...neither would I DaveB.

 

[Ralph-YK]

@Ipsi ...well worn stuff about being careful not to tank your kidneys by loading up the protein - especially because people with diabetes tend to have more vulnerable kidneys anyway.

???? What?

 

[Ralph-YK]

That is misleading because if you need say 2000 kcal/day and you cut fats you have to get the calories either from sugars and starches or proteins.
The wrong message is passed is that you have to cut on fats, so you will buy this low fat yogurt that is 130 calories (and 22 gram of+ sugars) instead of the plain wholemilk that is 120 calories (but there's more to eat. You end to eat more sugars, triggering the insulin response that for a non diabetic will transforms the sugars in fats.

That assumes we're eating the 2000 kcal, instead of 2600. And eating the sort of food that has fat replaced with something else (which a lot of people do). That's a different question to what effect fat itself has in your diet.
It's possible to control fat by having the same mayonaze, butter, sauses etc and managing the quantaties.

 

[Amigo]

???? What?

Ralph, it's believed too much protein can be bad for diabetics because protein contains nitrogen products, which the kidneys must expel. Eating too much protein can overwork these organs and as everydays says, diabetics can have more vulnerable kidney function anyway.

 

[Ralph-YK]

Ralph, it's believed too much protein can be bad for diabetics because protein contains nitrogen products, which the kidneys must expel. Eating too much protein can overwork these organs and as everydays says, diabetics can have more vulnerable kidney function anyway.

{*makes notes for Practice Nurse*}

 

[Martin Canty]

My version of LCHF, as with other low carbers posting on this thread, is that the HF only means the ratio of macronutrients (particularly between the ratio of carbs/fats) rather than adding copious quantities of additional fats, also the quality of the (added) fats used is important.
There should also be an emphasis on "real" food, as Mike put it, minimally processed.

 

[Wirrallass]

Oh no you're not. a lot of us are fighting our corner. At mo I'm still involved in edumacating the practice nurse in my D.
Good luck with your crusade.

Lin, what does edumacting.mean plz???🙄🙄

 

[Ljc]

Lin, what does edumacting.mean plz???🙄🙄

It's a deliberate misspelling of educating