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I thought you couldn't reverse diabetes?

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No you wouldn't - if you took an OGTT now you would come out as a Type 2 Diabetic.
By losing the weight ( although its the right thing to do )you are simply masking t2 not reversing it or going backwards. When you reach your ideal weight the real struggle will probably begin.

Ah yes sorry mcdonagh was typing my reply on my mobile during lunch should have clarified it a bit bitter 😱. Yes you are quite correct if I had an OGTT would indeed come out as Impared Glucose Tolerance after all if I had a normal OGTT I wouldnt be diabetic! Sorry for the confusion...
 
Ah yes sorry mcdonagh was typing my reply on my mobile during lunch should have clarified it a bit bitter 😱. Yes you are quite correct if I had an OGTT would indeed come out as Impared Glucose Tolerance after all if I had a normal OGTT I wouldnt be diabetic! Sorry for the confusion...

You've done great with the weight loss and control. And the party pictures looked good.
Did your A1c fall into line as soon as the weight loss started or was there a gradual fall off in A1c tied to weight loss e.g. one stone off, one % point off A1c ? It would be interesting to plot weight loss and improvements in A1c against each other.
 
You've done great with the weight loss and control. And the party pictures looked good.
Did your A1c fall into line as soon as the weight loss started or was there a gradual fall off in A1c tied to weight loss e.g. one stone off, one % point off A1c ? It would be interesting to plot weight loss and improvements in A1c against each other.

Thanks 🙂, no my HbA1c came right down from 7.1 to 5.8 after a couple of months (but I was on medication at that point). I have only had one HbA1c whilst off medication at it had only increased .1% :D
 
............Wallycorker (who I've not seen around here for some time) even cautiously suggested that it seemed like he could now 'get away' with occasionally eating carbs which would have previously been difficult, wondering perhaps whether loss of fat around organs was allowing things to work a little more again............
Yes Mike - the article being discussed describes almost exactly what happened to me.

More than ten years after diagnosis and after my HbA1c rising to 9.4% and being prescribed 2000mg of metformin per day - i.e. not far away from needing to inject insulin. These days I take no metformin medication at all for around six months now. My last several HbA1c readings have been in the 5s - also, my one hour after finishing eating readings are almost always in what I understand to be normal levels - i.e. between 4.0 and 7.8 mmol/L (around 92% of the time).

Most days, I eat chips with my lunch or occasionally a jacket potato - also loads of fruit. However, I do eat much less starchy carbohydrate than I had been encouraged to eat previously by the various healthcare professonals that I met. I will never go back to eating cereals, bread, pasta and pizza etc in any significant quantities because I believe that it is those foods that caused my problems in the first place.

Tonight, I pushed the boat out by eating a big pile of cottage pie. I expected the worst! My reading one hour after finishing eating that meal was 8.4 mmol/L. Yes - higher than I like these days but nowhere near as bad as I thought that it might have been.

Yes - you are right I don't post much these days - either on this forum or on the many others too. I can't post on several because I've been banned. Why? Because the moderators don't seem to like me talking about what I've achieved simply through slightly changing my diet. All quite weird really!

Please don't worry about me - I'm doing just fine and I don't expect anything to change.

Good luck and best wishes to all.

John
 
Nice to hear from you John, glad to hear that things are still going well for you 🙂
 
Thanks 🙂, no my HbA1c came right down from 7.1 to 5.8 after a couple of months (but I was on medication at that point). I have only had one HbA1c whilst off medication at it had only increased .1% :D
Great stuff Carol! You seem to have seen the light! Keep on going!

The medications will not solve the problem - only changing the diet will do that.

Best wishes - John
 
Nice to hear from you John, glad to hear that things are still going well for you 🙂
Hi Northerner,

Yes - I'm at peace with the world after getting 'forumed-out' and getting away from the aggro' that comes about by being on diabetes forums.

I'm even better just now because the winter is behind us and the cricket season is due to start very shortly. I've been riding around the cricket ground most of this week on the roller and grass-cutter taking in the sunshine and at total peace with the world.

Life is good! Even for a 67 year-old diabetic!

Best wishes - John
 
Yes nice to hear from you Wallycorker, was wondering why you haven't posted for a while but glad to hear you are still doing fantastic with your diabetes 🙂
 
HI

I am really confused as I thought we all thought that diabetes could not be reversed. However I recieved the diabetes.co.uk email this week with the following article?
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/reversing-diabetes.html

Have I misunderstood something. I would be very happy if I could reverse mine!🙂
Hi Lucy123,

If you haven't read it already, you might find something of interest in this thread of mine from quite a long time ago:

http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=6435&highlight=reversal

It is my experience that a great deal is possible for some non-insulin-dependent Type 2s through the power of diet.

Good luck and best wishes - John
 
Yes nice to hear from you Wallycorker, was wondering why you haven't posted for a while but glad to hear you are still doing fantastic with your diabetes 🙂
Thanks Carina!

I hope that you are keeping well also.

Best wishes - John
 
It is an interesting question. Glucose intolerance and Type 2 diabetes are all part of a sliding scale. The point at which you 'become diabetic' is an arbitrary value really - decided by the risk of developing complications I think. Looking at it from this perspective it is easier to see how someone only just into the diabetic range could 'move back along the scale' following significant weight loss/increased exercise etc. Having said that, glucose intolerance and impaired fasting glycaemia are really the 'mild' form of type 2 diabetes so it's during these stages that the disease is more able to be reversed.

This also brings into question the use of the HbA1c test for diagnosis. It's clear that a person not on medication could have an abnormal OGTT and therefore be diabetic but an HbA1c result within the normal range.
 
It is an interesting question. Glucose intolerance and Type 2 diabetes are all part of a sliding scale. The point at which you 'become diabetic' is an arbitrary value really - decided by the risk of developing complications I think. Looking at it from this perspective it is easier to see how someone only just into the diabetic range could 'move back along the scale' following significant weight loss/increased exercise etc. Having said that, glucose intolerance and impaired fasting glycaemia are really the 'mild' form of type 2 diabetes so it's during these stages that the disease is more able to be reversed.
.

Type 2 Diabetes is diagnosed when Insulin Resistance outweighs Beta Cell Mass when plotted against each other on the Starling Curve of the Pancreas. Its not an arbitrary value. There is no sliding scale ; the diagnosis of Type 2 Diabetes is absolute and the cut off point on the Starling Curve is meant to be, and is, All-or-nothing. Nobody is "only just into the diabetic range" Type 2 diabetic - they are well and truly in it.The suggestion that you might have mild Type 2 diabetes is like suggesting you might be mildly pregnant.
Impaired Glucose Tolerance (IGT) and Impaired Fasting Glucose (IFG) are not forms of mild Type 2 diabetes. IFG shows you are struggling in the battle with Insulin Resistance and it is a strong predictor of Type 2 Diabetes ahead while IGT is not. Many people remain happily IGT for decades without ever being dxed as T2. One medical Actuary calculated that it would take 750 years ( i.e. never) for the average IGT person to be dxed as a TYpe 2.
Once dxed with Type 2 you can't "go back along a sliding scale", but you can establish good control.
____________________________________________________
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
 
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Hi Lucy123,

If you haven't read it already, you might find something of interest in this thread of mine from quite a long time ago:

http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=6435&highlight=reversal

It is my experience that a great deal is possible for some non-insulin-dependent Type 2s through the power of diet.

Good luck and best wishes - John

Hi John,

Lovely to see you post - and I do see how your diet has helped you. I have just started a low gi diet - am now at the end of week 2 and am feeling fantastic - bounding with energy, so a lot can be said for diet.

I will read your link later - as in a rush to play a tennis match now🙂
 
Great stuff Carol! You seem to have seen the light! Keep on going!

The medications will not solve the problem - only changing the diet will do that.

Best wishes - John

Thanks John, great to see your post you are such an inspiration 🙂.
 
oh thanks Northerner 🙂 i've already got his 'shopping and eating out pocket guide' which i refer to when i'm writing out my shopping list but didn't realise he has written a book about what to eat, recipes and stuff!
 
He has written quite a few books Carina - try googling him.
He also has a website.
It takes some willpower to get into but once you are past the first week, it gets easier.
Good luck.
 
Type 2 Diabetes is diagnosed when Insulin Resistance outweighs Beta Cell Mass when plotted against each other on the Starling Curve of the Pancreas. Its not an arbitrary value. There is no sliding scale ; the diagnosis of Type 2 Diabetes is absolute and the cut off point on the Starling Curve is meant to be, and is, All-or-nothing. Nobody is "only just into the diabetic range" Type 2 diabetic - they are well and truly in it.The suggestion that you might have mild Type 2 diabetes is like suggesting you might be mildly pregnant.
Impaired Glucose Tolerance (IGT) and Impaired Fasting Glucose (IFG) are not forms of mild Type 2 diabetes. IFG shows you are struggling in the battle with Insulin Resistance and it is a strong predictor of Type 2 Diabetes ahead while IGT is not. Many people remain happily IGT for decades without ever being dxed as T2. One medical Actuary calculated that it would take 750 years ( i.e. never) for the average IGT person to be dxed as a TYpe 2.
Once dxed with Type 2 you can't "go back along a sliding scale", but you can establish good control.
____________________________________________________
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

You don't suddenly become type 2 diabetic. It is a slow development over a period of time. Insulin resistance is progressive. People with IFG and IGT are at risk of developing type 2 diabetes but not all will reach that stage. The cut off point for diagnosis of type 2 diabetes could be lowered - some people have suggested it should be. A lower cut off point for IFG is used in USA.

HbA1c is now being used for diagnosis of type 2 diabetes. The definition of type 2 diabetes has now changed. Using the HbA1c test for diagnosis, there are some people who have a normal OGTT result but an abnormal HbA1c and visa versa. Therefore whether or not you are diagnosed as being diabetic might depend on the test that your GP chooses to use.

I wasn't trying to add weight to the argument that diabetes is reversible - I don't think it is except for possibly the use of surgery as mentioned previously. But I do believe that type 2 diabetes is part of a spectrum of insulin resistance that includes IFG and IGT.

The comparison to being pregnant doesn't work. Pregnancy is a very easily definable condition that happens instantaneously (even though a test result might be incorrect).
 
You don't suddenly become type 2 diabetic. It is a slow development over a period of time. Insulin resistance is progressive.

HbA1c is now being used for diagnosis of type 2 diabetes. The definition of type 2 diabetes has now changed.
The comparison to being pregnant doesn't work. Pregnancy is a very easily definable condition that happens instantaneously (even though a test result might be incorrect).

You DO suddenly become dxed Type 2 Diabetic when Insulin Resistance outweighs Beta Cell Mass as plotted against each other on the Starling Curve of the Pancreas. The criteria - 11.1 two hours after an OGTT, two FBGs over 7, a random test over 11.1, the new HbA1c measure are all simply surrogate measures of that critical point on the Starling Curve of the Pancreas ( it would be too expensive to give everyone IR tests and Beta Cell Mass evaluations so surrogate measures which equate to that point are used).
Type 2 Diabetes isn't a development over time. When Beta Cell Mass still outweighs IR on the Starling Curve then you will NOT be TYpe 2, the Beta Cell Mass will always win out.
The definition of Type 2 Diabetes hasn't changed and isn't likely to change in the near future.
The comparison with pregnancy works well because Type 2 Diabetes is also an easily definable condition i.e. Type 2 Diabetes is defined/dxed when Insulin Resistance outweighs Beta Cell Mass on the Starling Curve of the Pancreas ( and not before !)
The Starling Curve of the Pancreas is an iconic diagram ( rather like the London Underground Map or whatever) and should be better known amongst Type 2 Diabetics.
 
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