Eat Well Plate, is it bad

[Diabetes UK]

I'm afraid I find Diabetes UK a bit lacking here. You don't necessarily need to go all out for low card.
You could go for firmer language for managing carbohydrates. You can do this while supporting individuals finding which type of carbs and quantities work for them.

Thank you Ralph. It is perhaps worth noting, that there is a difference between following a specific low-carb diet and having an awareness of carbohydrates in order to manage blood glucose levels.

For example, one individual may be very aware of what carbs they can or cannot eat and stick to low quantities of particular carbohydrates and reduce certain elements of their diet . They find this to have a significant, positive affect on their BG levels.
Another individual may stick to a diet that permits a certain amount of carbs per day (this could vary depending on what has been set as 'low' in the diet they follow). They also find this to have a significant, positive affect on their BG levels. Both involve a reduction of carbs and both have the desired affect. But only one of them is considered to be following a 'low-carb diet'.
There is no doubt that understanding carbohydrates is a key element of managing diabetes. But in terms of diet, the key finding is what is best for you.

Things like this forum are a great place for people to hear from others and hear what those different options are and to discover what may or may not work for them. It may be following a low-carb diet, it may be Mediterranean, it may be something else. But if it works for them, it is right for them and we support any individual in a diet that they find to work for them.

 

[Ralph-YK]

Apparently there used to be a separate wedge for

"Processed Foods" - it was removed and placed in the middle as the portion allocation seemed to suggest that
people HAD to eat that amount of processed food.

On the new version from a couple of years ago, they'd taken the sugar out of the sugars and fats section (and off the plate all together) for the same reason. In that case it had been what you can have rather than a minimum.
I wonder how come I never saw one with a processed food wedge.
People seemed to only be able to put pizza in the fats & sugars section because it was c*** food. Even though the cheese had come from the dairy section and the base from the carbohydrates section. I went with it sitting between those to. I compared it to an large, open (unfinished (as in you stopped before you'd put the top on)) cheese sand which.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

The recent recommendation for the low carb approach has (as I understand it) been the first major change in dietary advice from DUK since 2011...I'm wondering how they reconcile recommending a low carb diet and combining it with low fat...low fat foods have a significantly higher carbohydrate content than full fat foods on the products/foodstuffs I have compared...surely that completely negates the low carb advice/recommendation call it what you will?

Have you got a link to the guidelines you are talking about which advocate low carb @Bubbsie?

The 2011 DUK recommendations are linked in a sticky in the food section. Sections 5.2 and 5.3 seem to be the pertinent ones in that. Though the section on low carb diets made me laugh out cos it was so cautiously expressed. It seems in 2011 the low fat focus was down to evidence around weight loss (of which there was more for low fat and less published on low carb at the time).

• Weight management should be the primary nutritional strategy in managing glucose control in Type 2 diabetes for people who are overweight or obese.

They weren’t interested in the beneficial BG outcomes at that stage it seems?

Would be interested to compare with the newer recommendations if you have a link.

Incidentally - I often see the ‘low fat things are full of sugar’ comments, but I’ve not actually seen any products to back that up - which did you find?

All the low fat yoghurts I have bought have had sweeteners in them. Milk technically had more carbs if skimmed than full fat - but I don’t consume enough to notice.

Which are the low fat products which are the real nasties?

 

[Maz2]

I have to say I have found fat free yoghurts which have less sugars and carbs than the full fat ones but I suppose you have to read the labels carefully and compare.

 

[Maz2]

From X-Pert Diabetes Version 12.1
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Pleased to see the comment about processed foods. This seems better than the one I had on diabetes prevention a couple of years ago. I mentioned to my GP about how many people these days seemed to be diabetic or pre-diabetic and he felt processed foods had a lot to do with it and also the levels have been reduced too. Also pre-diabetes has been brought into things which did not used to happen.

 

[Maz2]

I mean hba1c levels for diagnosis of diabetes.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I have to say I have found fat free yoghurts which have less sugars and carbs than the full fat ones but I suppose you have to read the labels carefully and compare.

Yes that’s my experience too Maz. I’ve not really looked at ready meal type processed foods which might have a ‘low fat’ label so maybe it’s those?

This is one of the things which concerns me about the focus on ‘sugar’ (rather than processed carbohydrate) in things like the sugar tax - I can imagine boxes beginning to boast ‘30% lower in sugar’ when they are still packed full of other processed carbs that will hit the system like rocket fuel. After all the net effect of adding sugar to cornflakes is to LOWER the GI (cornflakes have a GI of 70, while sucrose/sugar is only 60!)

 

[Robin]

Yes that’s my experience too Maz. I’ve not really looked at ready meal type processed foods which might have a ‘low fat’ label so maybe it’s those?

This is one of the things which concerns me about the focus on ‘sugar’ (rather than processed carbohydrate) in things like the sugar tax - I can imagine boxes beginning to boast ‘30% lower in sugar’ when they are still packed full of other processed carbs that will hit the system like rocket fuel. After all the net effect of adding sugar to cornflakes is to LOWER the GI (cornflakes have a GI of 70, while sucrose/sugar is only 60!)

That's a problem I found with low fat yogurts, not that I eat them now, but when the new 'healthy eating' guidelines came in, I had a look. Most contain modified maize starch, to replicate the creamy texture of a full fat yogurt. And modified maize starch is exactly the same as corn syrup, only it doesn't taste sweet or have the word 'syrup' in its title. I decided that whatever carbs I ate, I'd make sure they added some nutritional value to my diet.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

That's a problem I found with low fat yogurts, not that I eat them now, but when the new 'healthy eating' guidelines came in, I had a look. Most contain modified maize starch, to replicate the creamy texture of a full fat yogurt. And modified maize starch is exactly the same as corn syrup, only it doesn't taste sweet or have the word 'syrup' in its title. I decided that whatever carbs I ate, I'd make sure they added some nutritional value to my diet.

Ah that’s interesting! I had gone by the lack of obvious sweeteners and modest (8-10g?) carb count for the pot, plus the fact that my BGs seemed relatively well behaved afterwards. Not something I eat often though so it’s a bit of a dim memory.

I tried to buy full fat yoghurt recently and it was next to impossible. Our supermarkets only seem to stock the low fat versions. 🙄

 

[mikeyB]

That's a problem I found with low fat yogurts, not that I eat them now, but when the new 'healthy eating' guidelines came in, I had a look. Most contain modified maize starch, to replicate the creamy texture of a full fat yogurt. And modified maize starch is exactly the same as corn syrup, only it doesn't taste sweet or have the word 'syrup' in its title. I decided that whatever carbs I ate, I'd make sure they added some nutritional value to my diet.

That’s exactly why I only eat full fat yogurts. Hard to find, these days in this country.

 

[Bubbsie]

I have to say I have found fat free yoghurts which have less sugars and carbs than the full fat ones but I suppose you have to read the labels carefully and compare.

A cup of low-fat plain yogurt has 17 grams of carbs... all from natural sugars... the same serving of low-fat plain Greek yogurt has 10 grams of carbs of which 9 grams are sugar... If you choose whole milk yogurt a 1 cup serving contains 11 grams of carbs,...while a cup of plain whole-milk Greek yogurt has 10 grams of carbs....in both of these whole milk yogurts all of the carbs come from sugar.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

A cup of low-fat plain yogurt has 17 grams of carbs... all from natural sugars... the same serving of low-fat plain Greek yogurt has 10 grams of carbs of which 9 grams are sugar... If you choose whole milk yogurt a 1 cup serving contains 11 grams of carbs,...while a cup of plain whole-milk Greek yogurt has 10 grams of carbs....in both of these whole milk yogurts all of the carbs come from sugar.

Thanks Bubbsie - that 17g one looks very different - it would be interesting to see if that had sugar added (even though it was listed as plain). Measuring in food cups sounds like it might be from the US - as myfitnesspal info often is?

For Sainsbury's basic yoghurts there doesn't seem to be as much difference:
https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/g...ainsburys-low-fat-natural-yogurt--basics-500g
is 6.4% carbs
vs
https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/g...rt/sainsburys-natural-greek-style-yogurt-500g
which is 5.3% carbs

So 6.6g per portion vs 8g per portion.

And all this seems to be lactose (the naturally occurring sugar in milk) rather than sugar added to make up for lack of taste - so yoghurts don't seem to be the culprit.

What were the products/foodstuffs that you compared @Bubbsie? I'm sure there must be some howlers out there as it's so often said that low fat foods have sugar added so they don't taste like cardboard - is it more ready meals? I can't say I've ever really looked at those.

 

[Maz2]

The one I have has 3g of sugar/carbs per 100g and ingredients do not state any modified starches or syrups. I have a full fat one too which has 4g per 100g; those are the only ones I buy. I don't eat anything other than plain now. Have tested them against the meter and I am fine with them.

I think processed foods are a different matter though. At my Tai Chi class they have biscuits at the end with tea/coffee and there are 31 different ingredients in them. I did read that there is some thought that additives, emulsifiers etc added to processed foods are causing problems.

 

[bamba]

...it's so often said that low fat foods have sugar added so they don't taste like cardboard ...

It has been said that the only reason to add vitamins to cornflakes was to make it possible to distinguish them from the box they were sold in.

 

[SB2015]

I think this is the thing that has always struck me. The eatwell plate may not be bad for people with a fully functioning metabolism and/or who are not genetically predisposed to diabetes - but for those with diabetes or who are in the process of moving in that direction it can be a recipe for disaster.

It’s slightly better in proportions than it has been in the past - you may be able to ‘get away with it’ if using basal:bolus insulin, but if diet+activity is your primary BG management tool, then the proportions of eatwell seem less than ideal.

It is also rather deceptive, as in trying to include a variety of foods in each section it gives the idea that you need all that food in a meal, which would be a lot of food for one meal. Certainly well over my 30 g of carbs for each meal.

 

[Radders]

I have to say I have found fat free yoghurts which have less sugars and carbs than the full fat ones but I suppose you have to read the labels carefully and compare.

I think yoghurts have radically improved very recently. There are now plenty of low sugar or no sugar added versions of flavoured yoghurts whereas I used to find that of all the flavoured yoghurts there was only ever one that I would eat with less than 10 g carb in a pot.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I think yoghurts have radically improved very recently. There are now plenty of low sugar or no sugar added versions of flavoured yoghurts whereas I used to find that of all the flavoured yoghurts there was only ever one that I would eat with less than 10 g carb in a pot.

I always used to go for muller light, usually vanilla (this was 7+ years ago when I used to grab lunches when freelancing). I think they were 10ish grams of carbs?

 

[Matt Cycle]

Does or has anyone in all honesty rigidly followed what's on the Eatwell plate? I've seen pictures of it but I wouldn't have a clue what the proportions of proteins/carbs etc are. I've always stuck to a balanced diet with reasonable portion sizes. It's not rocket science to know a plateful of spinach is going to be healthier for you than a packet of doughnuts whether diabetic or not. It seems to me the Eatwell plate is conveniently trotted out as an excuse by people when things have gone wrong but who knows if they've really followed it and what portion sizes they've been consuming.

 

[Bubbsie]

Does or has anyone in all honesty rigidly followed what's on the Eatwell plate? I've seen pictures of it but I wouldn't have a clue what the proportions of proteins/carbs etc are. I've always stuck to a balanced diet with reasonable portion sizes. It's not rocket science to know a plateful of spinach is going to be healthier for you than a packet of doughnuts whether diabetic or not. It seems to me the Eatwell plate is conveniently trotted out as an excuse by people when things have gone wrong but who knows if they've really followed it and what portion sizes they've been consuming.

What on earth makes you think the eat well plate is used as a convenient excuse?...I went to a course for type 2's where the eat well plate was presented...where others attending the course had used it to base their diets on...after all their health care professionals & their DSN's couldn't be wrong...we have had several members recently who have said they were eating what they thought was a healthy diet...only to discover what they had been recommended would have the opposite effect.

I used the eat well plate guide for a short while until I knew better...if someone comes here & is having difficulty whether it is with the eat well plate...bad diet...or apathy once they are here I assume they want advice...some guidance...so I am happy to do what I can without judgment.

 

[Bubbsie]

I always used to go for muller light, usually vanilla (this was 7+ years ago when I used to grab lunches when freelancing). I think they were 10ish grams of carbs?

Oddly enough the products I looked at were from one of DUK's sponsors...Tesco's or have I got that wrong?